| Author | Message | ||
     Jeffrey McCarthy Frequent User Username: jefmac2003 Post Number: 51 Registered: 5-2007 |
As I was driving along the starter motor turned on continuously. I nursed the car the 1km home and found I couldn't stop it without disconnecting the battery. Now when I reconnect the battery the engine starts (in any gear!) but it wont start to move until I turn the key on. I'm assuming it's an electrical problem and am chasing advice on the telephone but any suggestion here would be great ... could it be a short in the altenator? Apart from this she has been running beautifully since her trip to Melbourne. Cheers, Jeff SRH20280 | ||
| Bill Coburn Moderator Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 946 Registered: 4-2003 |
Jeff/ If I understand you rightly, the starter is in sire need of repair. Can I suggest you don't bother. Assuming it is original it is expensive to repair and you finish up with a not particularly effective unit. The best solution is to get onto Bob Chapman (back to work next Monday)and get a new Nippondenso starter which Rolls switched to in 1987. They drop right in and you should have no further trouble. Even if the starter is not the problem which I doubt is the case you will be a lot better off with these new units. | ||
| Jeffrey McCarthy Frequent User Username: jefmac2003 Post Number: 52 Registered: 5-2007 |
Thanks for that Bill - I've been ringing Bob but no answer...I guess even RR mechanics need holidays too :-) I'll wait till Monday & get onto him. By the way I couldn't stop the whole engine, not just the starter motor, without disconnecting the battery. When I reconnect the earth at the battery the motor kicks over but won't engage into gear without turning the key and getting the starter to kick in. I'll leave it alone until I've got the new starter lest the car decides to go walkies while I'm fiddling with it. Meanwhile I'll search out Tee One for instructions on changing it over...starting with: where is the starter motor located on these things? Once again thanks for getting back to me so quickly. Jeff | ||
| John Kilkenny Frequent User Username: john_kilkenny Post Number: 51 Registered: 6-2005 |
Jeff, from the symptoms you describe the problem may not be the starter motor. The fact that you cannot stop the motor by turning off the ignition means that the ignition coil is always live with the battery connected. This is because the ignition coil is directly connected to 12 volts via the starter relay during cranking. My guess is you have a faulty starter relay or perhaps 12 volts being continuously applied to it in error. Have an auto electrician look at it. Not being able to select a gear without turning the key is quite normal. Regards, John | ||
| Jeffrey McCarthy Frequent User Username: jefmac2003 Post Number: 53 Registered: 5-2007 |
Thanks for that John, I'll look at the relay first - could anyone give me an idea where it is located? I'm looking behind the ignition switch on the dash and seeing a small silver box - is this it ? | ||
| Paul Yorke Prolific User Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 109 Registered: 6-2006 |
Have a look in he engine bay. On a RHD car it should be on a bracket next to the accelerator linkages / chassis rail. The relay does give problems. It's a relay that feeds the coil and the starter - feeds two output terminals, not a changeover relay. The starter is on the right hand side of the engine, you can just about see it through the wheel arch but you'll have to work from below. Check the wires to the starter motor terminals to make sure nothing is bridging them on the outside. Before checking it again, disconnect either the HT lead from the coil or the wire to the distributor so the engine will not run. (Message edited by Paul_Yorke on 07 January 2008) | ||
| John Kilkenny Frequent User Username: john_kilkenny Post Number: 52 Registered: 6-2005 |
Jeff, My early model Shadow (without ballast resistor)has the starter relay under the main relay box on the driver's side. It looks like a small can with two brown cotton covered wires plus a red/white plastic covered wire. (Later cars also have a blue plastic wire going to the isolation switch). The red/white plastic one switches the relay on to start the engine. If your car is similar, remove the red/white wire from the relay. If the car still starts with the battery connected the relay is faulty. If it doesn't, the plastic covered wire must have 12 volts on it when it shouldn't, and the fault must be further back, maybe in the switch box. Good luck ! | ||
| Jeffrey McCarthy Frequent User Username: jefmac2003 Post Number: 54 Registered: 5-2007 |
Eureka...maybe. The fault seems to have been in the ignition/key box; a blue wire contact was pressing loosely against another wire. I straightened this and the problem was solved. It may be however that just leaving the car to cool down overnight has made the relay work intermittently again - unfortunately I didn't test it before I played with the switch. In any case I can now drive the car to an autoelectrician. So thank you all once again. Cheers, Jeff | ||
| Jeffrey McCarthy Frequent User Username: jefmac2003 Post Number: 55 Registered: 5-2007 |
It happened again today so it is an intermittant problem - after 10 minutes it corrected itself I've removed the relay and checked the connections - they seem to be okay. Is my local auto-sparky likely to have one of these relays in stock or should I try to get one before I take the car to him? Is there a better modern alternative - or at least something I could use until I get the OEM part? Thanks in advance for any answers. I'm taking the car up to Moss Vale at the end of the month & am seriously considering the Nippondenso and maybe renewing some of the circuitry - in the meantime it's booked into the body shop to have a scratch taken out courtesy of Shannons (I scraped a roadside bush pulling off the road when the engine mount gave out on the way to Melbourne). | ||
| John Kilkenny Frequent User Username: john_kilkenny Post Number: 53 Registered: 6-2005 |
Jeff, Before buying anything you should let an auto electrician have a look at it and explain to him exactly what is happening. In particular does the problem occur immediately after starting, or during normal running with the car in gear. I have attached a diagram of the relay. Your car should have the isolation switch (mine doesn't so I don't know its location) so next time the fault occurs operate the isolation switch and see what happens.  | ||
| Paul Yorke Prolific User Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 110 Registered: 6-2006 |
The isolator switch/es are in the gear shift mechanisms to stop you starting the car in gear. You've got to catch it while the fault is happening and take wires off the relay one by one. I'd start with the white / red , find out which one stops the starter and the engine. I'd get the starter problem sorted before taking it to a paintshop. The last thing you and they need is it starting in gear and doing some serious damage or injury. | ||
| Jeffrey McCarthy Frequent User Username: jefmac2003 Post Number: 56 Registered: 5-2007 |
Thanks for the diagram & advice. I've booked it in to an electrician on Monday - with crossed fingers; it's a 2 hour drive to the nearest one. Incidentally the problem has happened both at start-up and also suddenly during driving. I'll post the auto-electrician's diagnosis & cure next week hopefully. Meanwhile I'll go over the relay & circuits and see what I can learn. | ||
| John Kilkenny Frequent User Username: john_kilkenny Post Number: 54 Registered: 6-2005 |
Jeff, If you are concerned about the fault occurring during your 2 hour drive, you can disconnect the starter relay from the battery after starting. First, before starting the engine check to see which of the brown cotton covered wires has 12 volts on it. Then, after starting the engine, carefully remove that wire from the relay, insulate it and fix it so it doesn't flap around. DON"T DO THIS IF YOU ARE NOT CONFIDENT OF DOING IT PROPERLY AS THE WIRE IS DIRECTLY CONNECTED TO THE BATTERY. Of course you will have to re-connect the wire to re-start the engine. | ||
| Jeffrey McCarthy Frequent User Username: jefmac2003 Post Number: 57 Registered: 5-2007 |
The problem, according to the auto-electrician, was that the blue wire at the isolation switch had become loose and needed to be re-connected properly. John, just for future peace of mind I have marked the live brown wire to the relay and am keeping some electrical tape in the tool kit in case something like this happens again - thanks for the info; it's a handy 'roadside fix' to know about. So far SRH20280 has had: the diff support mod done; new brake & coolant hoses; new master cylinder; Pitman arm checked (okay -but I will replace it anyway);new radiator core & temp probe and new engine mounts and some new seals. I think the next step in the preventative maintenance/restoration should be to start saving for a fairly comprehensive checkup/overhaul of the electrical system starting with the ignition system...unless she comes up with some ideas of her own in the meantime. As always, thanks to all for your support. Jeff |
