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Guy Boldon
New User
Username: guy_boldon

Post Number: 4
Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Tuesday, 01 May, 2007 - 11:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Congrats to the Aussies!!
Can anyone suggest a procedure for correcting a problem with the wipers? The wipers work at only the fast wipe selection on the switch. There is no activity at any other position. Thoughts....... anyone. A diagram??

Also, the right side blower on the AC has failed. Is it OK to parallel the two units by running a lead from the one which functions??

Guy Boldon, Trinidad, WI
SRH 17774
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 719
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Tuesday, 01 May, 2007 - 04:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Guy,

A book on Shadow Electrics is going to be released at the RROC [Australia] Federal Rally on Friday that has the relevant wiring diagrams to give explanations for your problems. I don't know the cost yet but will advise after this information becomes public. I have proof read the book and it is ideal for non-technical owners.

Is the blower failure motor related or wiring related [i.e. is there voltage at the motor terminals of the failed fan when the other fan is working]?

I feel sorry for the West Indies after the outcome of the cricket World Cup - what should have been an enjoyable series was destroyed by tragedy and a final that degenerated into farce because the match officials didn't know the rules. Yes we won but not the way we wanted - head to head on equal terms was the only way the winner should have been decided.
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Guy Boldon
New User
Username: guy_boldon

Post Number: 5
Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Tuesday, 01 May, 2007 - 08:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hello Dave,
The problem with the blower is wiring-related. There is no voltage at that terminal. The problem is, of course, that I am unable to determine what the wiring configuration is.

I await the publication. A CD version for the international community may be a worthy venture, I think.

Cultural imperialism was partly reponsible for the debacle which has been the world cup here in the WI.

The failure of the fans to support was because of the stictures which were imposed ( perhaps for security reasons) but there was absolutely no consideration for the flair of the WI community spirit. You will never see Brazil play without hearing the Samba beat in the background. Meme chose!!!

With the departure of the prince (Lara) the discipline will now degenerate into a state of hibernation for a very long while.

Many thanks for your help. I look forward to your next.

Guy Boldon, Trinidad, WI.
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 1228
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Tuesday, 01 May, 2007 - 08:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I'll email the wiring diagram.

The two blower motors are wired directly in parallel. The chances are that you have a broken or damaged cable. Provided the break is inside the insulation, a jury-rigged bridge between the motors will do fine (but make it look good !).

(Message edited by Richard Treacy on 01 May 2007)
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Bill Coburn
Moderator
Username: bill_coburn

Post Number: 894
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Tuesday, 01 May, 2007 - 11:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Richard/ Thanks for that. I felt quite embarassed that we couldn't help Guy out without suggesting he bought a yet to be produced publication.
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 721
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Thursday, 03 May, 2007 - 11:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Bill,

I wasn't expecting Guy to buy the book - all I was doing was getting a little bit of pre-release publicity for a really useful publication for shadow owners.In any case, we needed to determine if the problem was wiring or motor related which Guy had not advised.

I am unable to send the diagram to Guy until the embargo on publication is lifted after the release and I obtain a digital copy. The diagram in the book is far easier to understand than the diagram from the workshop manual as it explains how the switch functions work.



(Message edited by david_gore on 03 May 2007)
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 714
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Thursday, 03 May, 2007 - 04:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Guy I see you said that there is no activity in any other position on the switch.
Do you get any activity from the wash wipe switch?

Ho Hum!
Any one know what a cricket ball is made of inside.
How do the cameras opperate in the stumps?
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John Kilkenny
Experienced User
Username: john_kilkenny

Post Number: 36
Registered: 6-2005
Posted on Thursday, 03 May, 2007 - 06:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Guy,
I have just read your post on the faulty connection to the RH Blower motor. If you want to track the positive wire to the motor, the common connection for the two motors is at Pin 6 on Console Plug/Skt Y (the end connector in the console Unit) It then goes via Pin 1 on R.H. Toeboard Plug/Skt E to the positive blower motor connection. E is the fifth of six connectors on the toeboard under the blower motor and Pin 1 is the top single pin.
Both wires are yellow plastic with a green tracer.
However unless there is an obvious loose or broken wire it would be preferable to run a new wire from the other motor as it is easy to cause problems fiddling with thirty year old plugs and sockets
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KC Saayman
Frequent User
Username: kc_saayman

Post Number: 56
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Friday, 04 May, 2007 - 02:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

David, I am really excited to hear about this book. Please keep us informed. Can I send money yet ?!

Regards

KC
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Guy Boldon
New User
Username: guy_boldon

Post Number: 6
Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Friday, 04 May, 2007 - 03:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

DearJohn,

Not so fast, please.
I have no idea where I may locate the connectors etc to which you refer. If you would be so kind, I can work with a diagram. SVP.

Thanks

Guy Boldon
Trinidad,WI.
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John Kilkenny
Experienced User
Username: john_kilkenny

Post Number: 37
Registered: 6-2005
Posted on Friday, 04 May, 2007 - 10:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hello Guy,
I am not aware of a physical layout diagram but the logic diagrams are available on this site. Go to Technical Library, Post Shadow (wrongly labelled ), Workshop Manual for Silver Shadows Prior to 30,000, Wiring Diagrams Part 1.
These are PDF files. Sheet 1 (Pages 155-157) contains the blower motors and control resistors and Sheet 3 (Pages 163-165) shows the switches. As I mentioned, the Toeboard Plugs and Sockets are located on the firewall under the blower motor. towards the side of the car. They are not all that easy to access. I don't know the precise position of the console plugs and sockets as my car is different.
Regards,
John

For Patrick..
If you put 'stump camera' and 'cricket ball' into Google you will get a full description of both.
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 718
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Tuesday, 08 May, 2007 - 05:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thanks John,yes very intresting.
Will try a snooker ball and the pocket camera next.
Guy did you sus the wipers out?
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Guy Boldon
New User
Username: guy_boldon

Post Number: 7
Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Tuesday, 08 May, 2007 - 08:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Pat, I have not been able to get to the wipes yet as I am still trying to resolve a cooling problem. Having read a few of the recent posts I am quite concerned about this ovarheating and whether I will ever get this thing sorted out.

All the experts are saying " radiator". Two radiator companies have already pressure tested and cleaned the unit. Does this make the unit good??

Yesterday I could have sworn that there was an alien inside the engine pouring out the coolant after a ten minute drive......and he was using a bucket.

I lost 1 1/2 gals of coolant all through the header tank overflow. It would seem as though the coolant is backing up on the pump discharge side and not circulating rapidly through the engine.

I have the thermo tied fully open while I await a replacement but this overflow continues even while the car is running. The car runs very well. I have full power etc but for this overheating. After another expensive coolant change there was no steam but the usual boiling sound both in the rad and low down in the motor..
I really would prefer not to have to recore and loose the original material as I am wary of what material will be used as a replacement.I am looking for good dissipation.

What is the purpose of the valve in the header tank??
?Thanks for the dias. I can understand and will report soon.

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Paul Yorke
Experienced User
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 42
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Tuesday, 08 May, 2007 - 09:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The valve is a pressure valve.

"Tied the thermostat open?" Try removing it?

Have you done a test for exhaust gases in the coolant?

Is the radiator hot evenly across it.

How quickly does it boil? What conditions does it boil under?

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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 1233
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Tuesday, 08 May, 2007 - 10:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

It all sounds eerily like a blown head gasket.

Even if the steam valve were leaky or faulty, the motor should still not boil. Remember, in earlier cars (MkVI-R) the factory removed the steam valve for a time as head gaskets were blowing, and left the system at atmospheric pressure. They later put back a dummy valve, still at atmospheric pressure, but only to stop leakage when you slammed on the brakes. SYs are of course different. However, I had a steam valve leakage for a while on our '72 SY, fixed easily by a new steam valve cover gasket, but it never gave a hint of overheating over a few months before fixed: just a small loss of coolant on heat soak after parking.

If, with the radiator cap removed, it bubbles and spews coolant after a few minutes' driving, then that must be a fairly strong sign of a blown head gasket.
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 720
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Wednesday, 09 May, 2007 - 05:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Guy you said: All the experts are saying
"radiator". Two radiator companies have already pressure tested and cleaned the unit. Does this make the unit good??

I would make sure that the cleaning of the rad was a reverse flush etc, if so was a flow test carried out afterwards.
I suppose the viscous fan is working ok.
I see your car was manufactured just eight after mine,have you the later booster electric cooling fan fitted.
If so do you hear it cut in and out?

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Guy Boldon
New User
Username: guy_boldon

Post Number: 8
Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Wednesday, 09 May, 2007 - 12:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Patrick,
The rad clean was well done. I have no electronic fan. I would be glad to hear from you about this. All the other elements of this equation are OK. I'm about to try swapping radiators. Will inform.

Richard,
The symptoms are all present. I will try replacing the radiator and see what happens. I would hate to have to take this engine down. The guy will have to come from RR in London. The cost factor will be astronomical.

Will post findings.
Thanks all!!!

Guy Boldon Trinidad., WI.
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 721
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Wednesday, 09 May, 2007 - 04:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Guy before you get to the changing of rads it would be a good idea to do as Paul suggested,
Check the cooling system for exhaust gases.
I myself like to use the cylinder leak tester as this will also confirm that the head gaskets are ok or not.
Will also pin point which side and which cylinder
is causing the fault if faulty.
Do try a new thermostat first.
By the way have the pellets melted out of the old thermost?
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Guy Boldon
New User
Username: guy_boldon

Post Number: 9
Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Wednesday, 09 May, 2007 - 11:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Pat, This is news to a novice like me. How do I get hold of these items or is there some means by which I can accomplish what you recommend without any technical instruments? The new thermo is installed. Somehow I got a cheap unit which has no " meltable pellets". In the case of the old thermo, yes, some of the holes are there with no pellets so I am assuming that some of them did, in fact, melt.
Pl inform wrt the procedure for testing for exhaust gases.
Many thanks


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Paul Yorke
Experienced User
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 43
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Thursday, 10 May, 2007 - 08:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Guy - something like

http://www.toolsnstuff.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=17418

I haven't used the company toolsandstuff but that is one type of equipment.

Also you can use an exhaust gas analyser machine to check the gasses coming out of the rad filler. You will probably need to make some kind of tube or funnel to prevent the water going up the probe ( because the header tank is so shallow. )

Let us know about the other things too. viscous coupling / no thermostst / how quickly does it boil / does it do it every time / have you managed to get a photo of the alien?

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Guy Boldon
New User
Username: guy_boldon

Post Number: 10
Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Thursday, 10 May, 2007 - 01:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The system boils after a very short 8min drive on flat terrain with moderate speed. The viscuous coupling seems to be working OK. I have installed a new "cheap" (Shame on you, supplier "and I wont give their name')thermo. Boils every time. Can't find the alien, yet. Trying, now to source that testing equipment.

Thanks all for your continued support!!
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 722
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Thursday, 10 May, 2007 - 05:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Is the new cheap thermostat one of the type that has not got the bleed hole that when fitting should be fitted at the top.
There is more to be taken into account,i would strongly suggest useing only the original RR type.


(Message edited by pat lockyer on 10 May 2007)
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Paul Yorke
Experienced User
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 44
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Thursday, 10 May, 2007 - 09:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Guy, if it boils that quickly then it would seem that it is almost definately gasses from a cylinder getting into the cooling system and over pressurising it. ( Well from a UK point of view - although I don't know how hot it is in Trinidad this time of year )

Is the coolant & engine actually boiling hot with lots of steam or is it more like somebody pumping compressed air into the cooling system and it's bubbling / wooshing out? Does the whole engine seem over hot?

Many of the thermostats do not have the lead shots but they should all have a 'jiggle pin' or valve or some way to let trapped air through.
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John Kilkenny
Experienced User
Username: john_kilkenny

Post Number: 38
Registered: 6-2005
Posted on Thursday, 10 May, 2007 - 10:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Guy,
When you say you have installed a cheap thermostat, is it the dual function type with two valve plates ? If not you will certainly have overheating.
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Guy Boldon
Experienced User
Username: guy_boldon

Post Number: 11
Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Thursday, 10 May, 2007 - 10:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The thermo has the "jiggle pin" and I assume that this is a type of release mechanism.

I am very disappointed that the supplier chose to send this type of equipment since it came from the UK. I intend to replace it. I have also had the fan belts supplied in a sealed container and one seems to be more strained than the other when under load. This makes for a vey noisy reaction with the pulley' Why is it that the equipment is so unreliable??? I also had a belt for the alternator which does not fit at all. Would you believe that I lost my original switchkey and had the suppliers send me a replacement switchbox which was incompatible with the electronic configuration of the car. I had to return that and request another which has left me with a few untenanted wires on the main switchbox. So far no problems with that. Do you know how far away the UK is from Trinidad??........and would you also believe that the farthest place on the planet from Trinidad is Australia whence came this car, a gift from my olympic medal winning son in 2000???
The question now is " should I back off the header tank cap and use the car for short trips?? or should I just not start the motor at all????
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Leho Proos
Yet to post message
Username: lehoproos

Post Number: 1
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Friday, 11 May, 2007 - 12:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

When you say that there is a very noisy reaction with the pulley, are you referring to a typical belt squeal or is it more of a mechanical noise?
If its mechanical noise, I would suspect the coolant pump operation.
Leho
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Guy Boldon
Experienced User
Username: guy_boldon

Post Number: 12
Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Friday, 11 May, 2007 - 02:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

No coolant pump malfunction. Simply an unmatched pair of belts.
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 725
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Friday, 11 May, 2007 - 05:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

This is a bad bad cheap type fitted,is it like yours,from what car i have no idea but it was the cause of boiling faults within the cooling system.
Stirred up settlement debris and blocked the rad!
The nearest is the genuine RR type with the saftey
pellets.
How many miles is the car showing,
Should the original topic be changed to boiling fault?





(Message edited by pat lockyer on 11 May 2007)
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Guy Boldon
Experienced User
Username: guy_boldon

Post Number: 13
Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Saturday, 12 May, 2007 - 03:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Well??????

Should I start the car if the head gasket is broken or should I just park it up for about three months until the RR guy comes??
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Bill Coburn
Moderator
Username: bill_coburn

Post Number: 896
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Saturday, 12 May, 2007 - 06:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

DEar me Guy we all seem to be going around in circles. I agree with Pat, for the moment forget the wipers.. I shall start a new thread we can come back to the wipers later!
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bob uk
Unregistered guest
Posted From: client-86-29-86-238.brig.adsl.tesco.net
Posted on Friday, 11 May, 2007 - 10:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The wiper motors changes speed because it has a third brush so just because the motor works in one speed does not mean that the motor is sound.

The speed change does not work via resistances being switched in and out.

The heater motors does work by switching resistors in and out.

The motors are easy to remove and test and oil the bearings the fan end is not near the brushes so a large drop of engine oil will do the other end a smear of petroleum jelly only

The resitors are l/h side front by the aircon thingy.

These motors use lots of amps and do need sound connection to work correctly .--------the system is electro/mech and easy to fix. Check rubber mountings

(Message approved by david_gore)
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bob uk
Unregistered guest
Posted From: client-86-29-86-238.brig.adsl.tesco.net
Posted on Friday, 11 May, 2007 - 10:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

heater motors are parallel

(Message approved by david_gore)
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Robert Gardner
New User
Username: bobg

Post Number: 7
Registered: 12-2012
Posted on Sunday, 24 November, 2013 - 08:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I know this is an old thread, Was the Shadow Electrics Book ever published ?
If so, does anyone have the info on it?
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Bill Coburn
Moderator
Username: bill_coburn

Post Number: 1527
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Sunday, 24 November, 2013 - 10:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Robert. The answer is no. As with all this material a small group of people in this country worked their guts out to get the library going. We got about as much support as an arsonist in a bush fire! To add insult, some practitioners could not resist downloading the material we had scanned (some tens of thousands of pages) popping them on a disc and flogging them on the internet sans any credits of course.

The book you refer to realistically has a fairly limited interest to the average owner but is one which should be available if for no other reason than the effort the author put into its compiling. Notwithstanding this gripe, we will get there!
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 1352
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Sunday, 24 November, 2013 - 08:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

As one of the contributors to and proof reader of this publication; I am personally extremely disappointed this work has never been published despite the author [Ken Saunders] gifting the copyright to the RROC[Australia] during a presentation at the Technical Sessions held during the 2007 Federal Rally in Queensland.

I have raised the question of having this Guide published officially several times within the Club but it seems to disappear into the "wide blue yonder" each time it has been raised.

I have access to a copy of the final version but I am unable to disclose any of the contents without RROC[Australia] permission due to the copyright situation. It is a magnificent explanation of how and why the Shadow I electrical system works and would be invaluable to anyone having to troubleshoot recalcitrant vehicles.
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Robert Gardner
New User
Username: bobg

Post Number: 9
Registered: 12-2012
Posted on Sunday, 24 November, 2013 - 10:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Perhaps there are a lot more people following these forums then there were six years ago and it may spark an interest again in having this material.

I merely stumbled upon this thread by looking in the archive topic. All of these Shadows have electrical issues, mine notwithstanding,

I think if you again inform the readers/ membership about this book you may kindle a fire as it were, I, for one would be more than willing to donate to its publication.

Thanks so much,
Bob

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