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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Grand Master
Username: soviet

Post Number: 416
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Wednesday, 24 February, 2016 - 09:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Has anybody had any success using something like POR petrol/gas tank restoration products for removing rust inside the tank or sealing the tank or are these products a gimmick.

I have three tanks I want made as good as perfect as can be - two Jaguar and one Camargue.

I have thought about filling the tanks with water and then cutting a whole with a cutting disk after flushing the tank out but being in the mechanical trade for decades it always made me paranoid about petrol tanks exploding years and years after they were emptied/flushed etc.

All suggestions welcome. Knock yourselves out.
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Jonas TRACHSEL
Frequent User
Username: jonas_trachsel

Post Number: 76
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Thursday, 25 February, 2016 - 02:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Vlad
Fill your tank(s) with a couple handsfull of sharp stone chips and then shake the tank in all directions for at least ten hours.. This has the same effect as sandblasting inside the tank to remove all loose rust. After removing the stone chips and rust dust from the tank you may use one of the recommended sealing products.
Jonas
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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 1082
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Thursday, 25 February, 2016 - 02:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Ten hours!!! Hire a cement mixer and strap the tank to it.
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Mark Aldridge
Prolific User
Username: mark_aldridge

Post Number: 282
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Thursday, 25 February, 2016 - 03:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Make sure the Tank sealants are OK with Ethanol, I have heard of several horror stories where the sealant has lifted.
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 1921
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Thursday, 25 February, 2016 - 07:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Vladimir,

An alternative solution would be to use an internal bladder as used in motor sport vehicles in the existing tank.

These also have the property of being very difficult to rupture if the vehicle is involved in an accident thus giving you an additional safety benefit. An example of what can be done is on the link below however the cost may be another thing:

https://view.publitas.com/aero-tec-laboratories/atl-racing-fuel-cells-catalog/page/20
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Christian S. Hansen
Prolific User
Username: enquiring_mind

Post Number: 141
Registered: 4-2015
Posted on Thursday, 25 February, 2016 - 01:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Actually the idea of rock polishing of the interior of the tank has merit worthy of consideration and modification to suite the need. It is the same idea as that employed by rock polishing tumblers and cartridge case cleaning via tumbling. I could easily envision modifying a cement mixer with a bracket to hold the tank in various positions and as the mixer turned, the polishing medium inside the tank would slowly remove the rust scale. Choosing the proper medium would require some thought, but as proposed, it is an idea that has a practical application.
I'm just saying.
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Robert Noel Reddington
Grand Master
Username: bob_uk

Post Number: 864
Registered: 5-2015
Posted on Friday, 26 February, 2016 - 08:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The Shadow 1 tank has inside a pot which keep fuel by the pick up pipe when drifting or dough nutting or indeed just going around corners.
So be carefull when cleaning with stones and maybe course grit sand may be better.

Radiator repairers who also often do petrol tanks use acid bath to clean out rust.

I would ask a rad shop to have a look an advantage is that should the tank be pin holed they can repair it.
I use copper sheet to repair pin holes. Solder on use hot air gun.

Petrol fumes can explode but if the tank is filled with water the fumes will be driven out. Instead of water. Soluble oil used for machining steel is non rusting when mixed with water.

Another method is purge with exhaust gases from an engine.

I use household exterior black enamel gloss for fuel tanks.

The cement idea is good and cannot see why it wouldn't work.

A drastic way would be to remove the entire top of the tank and welded it back on after cleaning.

It may be possible not to bother cleaning out the rust other than a flush and suck and see.

Except the SU pumps do the sucking and you do the see.

SU pumps are designed to be tolerant of small bits of debris. The main filter can be blown out and reused a few times which maybe enough to get the loose rust out.
Once these bits have been taken apart once the next time it's much easier, a side of the road job.

My Mercedes 207D van had a lot of muck in the tank (not rust just 174k miles of debris). I cleaned the tank and put an inline filter and for a while the inline filter would block up every 500 miles or so. I would just stop and whip the filter out a quick reverse blow out using the spare wheel and off I go. Eventually the filter stayed clean so I popped a new one on. I sold to a two guys who drove it non stop to Berlin apart from the sea crossing.

2 types of tank. The upright Shadow 2 and the flat in floor Shadow 1.

There is a picture in the workshop manual showing a fuel tank cut away for enlightenment of the internal structure of the Shadow 1 tank. It's very well designed. Not matter how fast the petrol is going in it never spits back. Jag XJ6 can spit back. I had one shoot at least a pint over the boot lid.

Small electric cement mixers are available for hire. Tie ropes around the paddles inside and tighten using tourniquet method. Ratchet straps.
I have a 3 hp petrol mixer unfortunately the ignition timing has slipped and I can't be bothered to adjust it because it's a right palaver.
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Robert Noel Reddington
Grand Master
Username: bob_uk

Post Number: 865
Registered: 5-2015
Posted on Friday, 26 February, 2016 - 08:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Mad idea.

Take out the fuel gauge thingy and drain plug. Place tank on a gas pipe turn on gas and ignite remotely whilst one hides round the corner. Usually if a tank does "explode" it just goes whoosh. However a mate manage to "explode" a motor bike tank and when it landed it was a more rounded shape it still fitted the bike though.
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ChristopherCarnley
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 5.80.50.85
Posted on Thursday, 25 February, 2016 - 11:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

There is a franchise called tank-renu with several firms in the UK.
They rip them all to bits and renew the rotten parts, not only are they very reasonable in cost, but they are very good.I have dealt with the firm in Hartlepool.

(Message approved by david_gore)
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Robert Noel Reddington
Grand Master
Username: bob_uk

Post Number: 868
Registered: 5-2015
Posted on Friday, 26 February, 2016 - 10:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Excellent idea. Tank - renu. Tanks are roller welded. Bit like continuous spot welding. The electrodes are copper disks that clamp the seam and the tank is pushed through the rolling disks. Roof panels on some cars are also welded this way
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Randy Roberson
Grand Master
Username: wascator

Post Number: 636
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Friday, 26 February, 2016 - 11:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The Tank-Renu type places are quite the ticket, I understand. A restorer of Rolls-Royces "up North" takes tanks to a shop across the border in Canada which advertises any tank for a fixed price. They will cut them open and reweld them if necessary.
I did one years ago on an Allis-Chalmers model B tractor I restored: I boiled it out with hot water and caustic until it was completely rust-free, and it looked like screen wire in the bottom. I fiberglassed the exterior bottom of it enough to seal it then used motorcycle gas-tank sealer inside. It has lasted more than 30 years with nary a problem to date. The results you get depend on many variables, etc...
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Randy Roberson
Grand Master
Username: wascator

Post Number: 637
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Saturday, 27 February, 2016 - 12:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

By the way: do not put auto exhaust into a tank in an attempt to create an inert atmosphere prior to welding on it. Very dangerous.
This was always an unreliable process for several reasons: carbon monoxide is flammable, for one thing; now with modern vehicles and emissions controls, supposedly carbon dioxide and water vapor are the main exhaust constituents. Bet your life on it? Some one with a Diesel-engine vehicle may not realize Diesel exhaust has a lot of oxygen in it, and Boom!
A welder retired from our Company around 1997 and promptly blew himself up attempting to do this. I have seen my Grandfather do this but it was a Diesel tank and he died in bed so maybe he was lucky. A neighbor almost burned his son-in-law and an employee up by having them enter a propane tank semi-trailer to reweld a baffle. They steam-cleaned this tank for a week, but it was still not all out and they were burned. We cut and weld on pipelines full of gas, under pressure and at atmospheric pressure; it's sure to scare the pants off outsiders who see it done, but there is a way that works and a lot of ways that will kill you.
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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Grand Master
Username: soviet

Post Number: 419
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Saturday, 27 February, 2016 - 04:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Well Chaps thanks all for your input here on the question of what to do with the fuel tanks.

The advertising of some of the manufacturers of the fuel tank restoration sealers had me slightly perplexed because they seemed to be say, "just buy our product, pour it in your tank, problem is solved" whereas it is evident by the comments that the first step is to remove the rusty scale.

So given that I do have a brand new electric cement mixer and a pile of ratchet straps I can see my neighbours looking over to my place sighting the tank strapped to the cement mixer and shaking their heads is disbelief at what the Mad Russian is doing this time. That said I think ten hours of gravel roll may prove to be too much but here's my evil plan:

First I will remove the tanks for the cars and with the Mad Scot's optic snake go in through the fuel sender hole and inspect just how bad the scale is. If it's bad I will wash some blue granite gravel up and insert it, strap it to the electric cement mixer and let it do its magic for 15 minutes and the inspect it. I will put it right down the front of the yard so that if a spark is caused by the gravel and it goes kaboomski I don't cop it - long helicopter trip for me out here in the peaceful aussie outback to go to hospital if I get injured. So that's the plan. Then I will put the sealer in.

But I am just curious about the sealer ? Are tanks when they are new covered internally with any kind of sealer or are they just bare metal. Any ideas?

All this aside fuel tanks are very dangerous item. Just a quick aside: I have an American friend in New Hampshire whose father had many Cadillacs and who before he died had his last Cadillac sitting rotting in his yard as he had somehow gotten hoodwinked into buying a Jeep of all things. Along came a man one day and asked him if he could take the Cadillac away for free as scrap and her father agreed.

So in New Hampshire they have a little law that says you can't haul a derelict car with its petrol/gas tank so the tank had to be removed. So the man removed the tank and towed away the Cadillac for salvage. Quite stupidly this fool did not take the tank with him but left it in the grass and her father did not know that. Along came her nephews - young kids around 11 years old and young boys being what young boys are anywhere in the world decided to entertain themselves and see if they could get an explosion happening. Kaboomski ! One got 90 percent and the other 70 percent burns to their bodies and their parents ended up suing her father for negligently having a fuel tank left in the grass.

I have welded up diesel fuel tanks with both mig and oxy but only after I filled the tanks with water. I would never do that with a petrol/gas tank as I have been told stories that you can wash and flush these mongrels out up to three times and explosive vapour will still be in them.

Somebody mentioned making certain the liner was ethanol proof. Well I tried our E10 blend here in my 1990 Falcon Panel Van and it ran like a hairy goat so I would never put it in the Jaguar or the Camargue. Maybe the later cars like that fuel but it seems to me their should be big warning signs on it for the early cars because it certainly makes them sick.
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richard george yeaman
Grand Master
Username: richyrich

Post Number: 466
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Sunday, 28 February, 2016 - 05:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Vladimir somewhere in my distant past I had a car that kept blocking the fuel filter with flaky black paint particles coming from the fuel tank so if it were me I would leave it un painted and keep fuel in the tank.

Richard.

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