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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Grand Master
Username: soviet

Post Number: 388
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Tuesday, 12 January, 2016 - 02:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

At present I have my 420G Jaguar appropriately positioned in my lounge room and soon to receive a mirror finish black gloss total repaint together with refurbished leather and a Ford 351 Cleveland 400hp engine with possibly nitros injection and a Tremec TR6060 six speed manual transmission along with custom made Halibrand knock off wheels from USA at a grand a wheel.

And so the woodwork needs reveneering and turning from faded ghastly into dripping wet look dark supercool walnut burr.

Problem is I have read all the word resto info on the net I can find and I have a English book on it which is useful but horribly deficient in information.

Specifically, I need to know exactly how you get the new veneer to stick around the cornered parts ie the inside chamfer for the gauges and outside curves on the ends of door cappings. Or has my memory faded and is the veneer only applied to the flat parts of the wood?

I have to do the wood again in the Camargue but I am using the Jaguar as my guinea pig run.

So any info appreciated. I posted this technical query in my favourite spot of Idler Chatter as it is a Jaguar and I might somehow diverge intentionally into "unfortunate cynicism" and be set upon by the thought police.

Yes here I go poor David Bowie got the big curtain at 69 egad. That's quite young even with the drugs involved. Well he certainly enriched my life with his music but now I realise I have to work fast to get the Camargue going on the road before the final curtain gets me too.

As for an aside as the Jaguar is going to be heavily modified with the 4.2 Jaguar engine with triple carbs given the Lenin treatment of glass encasing for the museum or bar aside, I thought a good idea would be a gearstick knob in clear Perspex with six used 357 Magnum shells to give it that over the top patina.
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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 1058
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Tuesday, 12 January, 2016 - 03:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Vladimir

I'd be interested in how those veneered chamfers are done also.

Looking at the photo below, it appears Jaguar used separate veneer pieces, sanded to form a continuous whole. I guess common sense tells us veneer would never be able to be formed round such tight curves.

Much easier on the RR dashes (cheapskates) as they just paint the inside chamfers.

jaguar1

Final effect is very nice though:

jaguar

Geoff
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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Grand Master
Username: soviet

Post Number: 389
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Tuesday, 12 January, 2016 - 04:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Well Geoff, the veneer certainly looks like it is in the chamfer.

I have read the veneer is like a cloth when you get it and then there is a process to make it softer and dead flat. But as for the chamfers I can only hazard a guess that the craftsmen who produce these magnificent dashboards have at their disposal hole plugs which forces the veneer tight against the underlying wood and if so what about the other curves at the dashboard top.

I once met a young chap who hated wood dashboards and I thought apart from that he was actually sane.

I do know that they use a process called book matching on long dashboards which is simple enough because each consecutive veneer sheet looks like the previous one as the veneers are cut so thin.

Incredibly I once thought the entire dashboards were solid wood. Ho ho can you imagine the cost if it was walnut burr !!!
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Robert Noel Reddington
Grand Master
Username: bob_uk

Post Number: 834
Registered: 5-2015
Posted on Tuesday, 12 January, 2016 - 05:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The door cappings on my Shadow have a curve to the top. This is not veneered and is solid tree wood. Ash probably.

To flatten veneer use steam and sandwich between flat surfaces. Steaming lasts about 3 mins after the steam is removed. So don't hang around. A wall paper stripper feeding a wooden box works.

To do the round chamfers make up a wooden tapered plug using a lathe to fit the hole then cut a strip of veneer that is too wide and glue in place triming excess off afterwards. The joint should overlap. Then using a super very sharp knife cut through both layers at the overlap to give a perfect match. The shape is a frustum of a cone. So using card cut the shape then transfer to veneer. The strip to fit the chamfer must be too wide so it can be trimmed. Wrap the plug with plastic parcel tape or it will be glued to the dash.

When doing the flat bits again cut the veneer to wide and trim.

IMPORTANT. Only use very sharp tools.

To mirror match veneer again overlap and cut.

Use veneer glue that sets with heat. Then using a domestic clothes iron. Iron the veneer.

Lacquer. I use Hycoat acrylic lacquer aerosols. This stuff touch dry in 30 mins. Wet on wet 10 mins. 3 coats dry for 2 hours flatten 800 grit using water. Then another 3 coats. And so on. Final coat flatten 800 grit. Then Brasso or T cut for a deep shine. Then car wax. A hair dryer speeds things up a bit.

7.50 for 1/2 litre can.
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ChristopherCarnley
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 5.80.54.75
Posted on Tuesday, 12 January, 2016 - 05:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Jaguar had highly skilled craftsmen and a very useful vacuum table!
That is the only way that the chamfers and top "ski slope" could be done.

(Message approved by david_gore)
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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Grand Master
Username: soviet

Post Number: 391
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Tuesday, 12 January, 2016 - 09:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Great stuff Bob, thanks. Christopher a vacuum table is that a vacuum chamber ?
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ChristopherCarnley
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 5.80.53.129
Posted on Tuesday, 12 January, 2016 - 09:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Vlad, no, a table.
Bob, the chamfers are all curved, and a cone would not do the job. Final paper should be 2500, then burnishing cream, and loads of elbow grease.

(Message approved by david_gore)
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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Grand Master
Username: soviet

Post Number: 392
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Wednesday, 13 January, 2016 - 08:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Christopher - the vacuum table. Can you have a crack at trying to explain what it would look like and precisely how it would operate? Any photos, thanks.

Now heres an article, relevant to RR/B in the wrong place being Idle Chatter and where is the input from the conservative cucumber set who always have a gripe when I write something they don't like that is idle chatter - like where are they now ? Why are they not having a squark, a sook, a whinge, a quibble or even adding to our knowledge of a procedure that is totally essential to RR/B restoration? I am puzzled but not amused, as Liz R would say.
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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Grand Master
Username: soviet

Post Number: 393
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Wednesday, 13 January, 2016 - 09:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I just googled "vacuum table Jaguar wood veneer dash" and got a lot of info on this mysterious "vacuum table" so I will read it all and regurgitate another article on veneering.

The Camargue won't need this process as all the gauges are proud of the wood grain but I just noticed something weird, the glove box has dark walnut burr (or burl) on the inside which I want but that awful light coloured burr on the outside. Can anybody tell me if I can simply stain the light coloured burr dark after sanding or does veneer come in dark and light colours. I think from memory Hunt House or Crewe keep on stock veneers for refurbishment- I wonder what astronomical price that commands to obtain?
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richard george yeaman
Grand Master
Username: richyrich

Post Number: 434
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Wednesday, 13 January, 2016 - 07:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Vladimir I tend to agree with you that some information about this type of restoration is in fact in the wrong category and would be lost as a reference to anyone contemplating such restoration. I must say that I do enjoy reading about your escapades a bit of light hearted humour is always welcome in this worsening world.

Richard.
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ChristopherCarnley
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 5.80.54.63
Posted on Wednesday, 13 January, 2016 - 07:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Vlad,
I buy my veneers from Crispins in London. Normal veneers are 0.7 mm thick but the Jaguar ones were about half that thickness, before sanding. Veneering with burrs is horrendous, too much heat and the wood shrinks. Jaguar used cold urea/formaldehyde and the "press", of course.

(Message approved by david_gore)
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 1890
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Wednesday, 13 January, 2016 - 08:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I have moved this thread to a more appropriate topic - it is very relevant to most R-R/B vehicles.
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Jim Walters
Frequent User
Username: jim_walters

Post Number: 65
Registered: 1-2014
Posted on Thursday, 14 January, 2016 - 04:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Vladimir, the back side of the glove box is what the dash looked like when new. They fade badly from ultraviolet rays. This fading is more obvious when a switch bezel is removed from a veneered dash and exposes a dark ring underneath, testifying to the original shade.

SRE22493 NAC-05370
www.bristolmotors.com
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 1892
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Thursday, 14 January, 2016 - 10:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I also have changed the topic heading to make it more accessible in future searches.
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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Grand Master
Username: soviet

Post Number: 397
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Friday, 15 January, 2016 - 02:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Jim that's good to know because the colour on the side of the glove box is just so luxurious and top class king billy swank but the veneer on the dash is first rate yuk. So am I right in thinking that I can stain this bleached veneer back to a nice dark shade or will I have to sand it down?
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Jonas TRACHSEL
Frequent User
Username: jonas_trachsel

Post Number: 74
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Friday, 15 January, 2016 - 08:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Vlad
Sandpaper and veneer do not go well together, the veneer is too thin to sand.
Strip the old clear laquer with a heat gun or some chemical stripper, clean the the bare veneer carefully with thinner and then re-stain the veneer. Re-laquer and only then sand the clear lacquer to get a smooth finish.
For more how-to details search this forum for older threads.
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Jim Walters
Frequent User
Username: jim_walters

Post Number: 67
Registered: 1-2014
Posted on Saturday, 16 January, 2016 - 04:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Yes, you can stain it darker after removing all the clear coating. As Jonas says do not try to sand off the clear, remove it chemically. As you are in the outback I doubt you will find a professional furniture restorer close enough to make use of his services but for others some of these outfits have vapour stripping booths where fumes of the stripper remove the coating rather than slathering the stripper all over the wood. Obviously exercise great care when using a chemical stripper, as the veneer is extremely thin and can damage easily. Use plastic tools only on it. Use a heat gun with great care too, it can bubble or burn the veneer if not used carefully. A VERY light scuff with fine sandpaper before staining is OK. I've done lots of this work, patience and great care are the keys to success.

SRE22493 NAC-05370
www.bristolmotors.com
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ChristopherCarnley
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 5.80.51.139
Posted on Friday, 15 January, 2016 - 11:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Just a small caution on that, the heat gun may distort both the veneer and ground as well as melt the glue.
Only ever use dichloromethane (Paramose) trade stripper, and 0000 wire wool.

(Message approved by david_gore)
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George Constantine
Experienced User
Username: theo

Post Number: 25
Registered: 6-2012
Posted on Monday, 18 January, 2016 - 08:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Vladimir

I did all the woodwork on my Corniche some years ago. You can glue the inside of the gauges and bevelled edges if you let the veneer soak in water until they become flexible and stick them on, BUT this will not be a lasting repair as wood behaves in different ways in different temperatures. The best way is to mix to match a good oil based paint and give them a few coats then a few coats of lacquer. Flatten and Polish when dry

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