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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 1672
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Tuesday, 15 September, 2015 - 01:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The most recent thread regarding these things was Randy Roberson's on the Shadow forum entitled, '77 Wraith II Otter Switches.

Even at the end of that thread, I remain unclear as to what the actual descriptive function of each of those otter switches is and the technical specs for each as far as temperature that causes them to trigger.

Here are four illustrations from the SY2 and early SZ (pre-20K series) spare parts catalogs for the thermostat housings and various switches and/or sensors.

SY2 cars, No EGR

SY2 cars with EGR

Early SZ cars

Later early SZ cars

As you can see two of these illustrations are virtually identical.

If anyone knows which switch and/or sensor does what and under what circumstances would you please share? The descriptions in the SY catalog, which are of the form "OTTERSWITCH - (location)" are particularly unenlightening.

Brian
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Randy Roberson
Grand Master
Username: wascator

Post Number: 536
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Friday, 13 November, 2015 - 03:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Believe you may have the purple headings for the top two illustrations swapped. My WrathII North American has two Otter switches on the thermostat top housing like the top illustration.
As I recall one turns on the auxiliary fan; one is the engine coolant temperature sender UE 40361 I think; one completely disables and one partially disables the EGR function until the engine warms up.
I will research and try to reestablish the understand I once had of this arrangement.
I know that I bought three usable Otter switches salvaged from another Car, and I have to determine which is which. Meanwhile the Wraith II soldiers on with the three ports blanked off.
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Randy Roberson
Grand Master
Username: wascator

Post Number: 537
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Friday, 13 November, 2015 - 03:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I copy and paste from my earlier post; I think this is correct.

"Robert is correct I think: best I can tell from studying the Manual and vendor lists: the switch on the right side of the thermostat elbow (outlet) turns the auxiliary fan on. Part number RH 3074. There seems to be a reasonably priced conversion kit offered to replace this with a modern, readily available switch.
The left switch on the thermostat outlet elbow is the EGR primary valve lockout switch: setpoints opens at 57F or 14C rising; closes at 54F or 12C falling.
the switch below the thermostat is the EGR valve secondary lockout switch: setpoints opens at 111F or 44C rising; closes at 108F or 42C falling."

I can't see any identification markings on the switches I have. Only way I know is to use warm and cold water and see when they operate with a test lamp or volt meter.

As for EGR lockout: I assume this was needed so the engine would run better when cold; however with limited experience my car seems to run fine without any EGR lockout. I do want the auxiliary fan control, though.
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 1731
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Friday, 13 November, 2015 - 05:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Randy,

Things get curiouser and curiouser regarding the housings and these switches.

If the two illustrations up top are reversed it's Crewe's fault, as I just rechecked section A07 of the spare parts manual to confirm I'd labeled the partial illustrations correctly. They label the one with the two switches on the upper housing, "Thermostat Housing and Pipes/Cars fitted with S.U. Carbs," while the illustration with a single switch on the upper housing is labeled, "Thermostat Housing and Pipes/Fitted with E.G.R." (see PDF pages 24 & 25 of section A07).

What's weirder, though is that both my UK spec '78 SS-II, and US spec '79 SW-II, both have the single switch upper housing. The UK spec car does not have EGR and should never have had EGR. The US spec car does but being that I'm the second owner and the first one had it serviced by what is now Bentley High Point, I doubt that any modification would have been made (and there's no record of that in the paperwork I do have).

Brian
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 1788
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Friday, 13 November, 2015 - 07:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Brian,

When looking at any R-R electrical wiring schematic or spare parts list for the Shadows and later vehicles, always keep in mind a comment from a long-time RRMC employee to me at a RROC[Australia] Federal Rally a decade or so ago.

This comment was the number of alterations and changes made to the vehicles during production were numerous and it was impossible for the Crewe Drawing Office to reissue amended drawings due to the amount of work involved so the drawings were left as they were and the relevant parts list was updated with any new part numbers as appropriate. The wiring diagrams were left "as is" and only updated when major changes in design/assembly occurred; this is why it is important to look at "applicable" and later wiring diagrams when trying to diagnose electrical problems as the actual car wiring may correspond to that of a "later" model. You may have noticed I have referred to this many times in posts on this Forum over the years.
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 1732
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Friday, 13 November, 2015 - 10:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

David,

I try to remember to always look at the chassis number range a given diagram is applicable to, but I do occasionally slip.

The SY drawings I included have those clearly noted at the bottom, but that wasn't my focus at the time.

The single switch on the upper thermostat housing is noted as applying to SS-II from chassis 35430-41601 and SW-II from chassis 35457-41648.

LRK37110 fits the SW-II range. The explanation for the one versus two switches is revealed in the notes regarding where the cars were destined, which is what all the asterisks are about. Since SRH33576 wasn't destined for North America or Australia it ended up with the single switch configuration (which isn't shown, but is implied by the two alternatives for the upper thermostat housing part numbers).

Brian
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Randy Roberson
Grand Master
Username: wascator

Post Number: 538
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Friday, 13 November, 2015 - 01:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I should have added that my 1977 Wraith II is LRF 30305 and it has two Otter Switches on the thermostat outlet elbow and one below the thermostat, as in the top parts layout provided by Brian.
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 1733
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Saturday, 14 November, 2015 - 06:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Randy,

Here is the bottom half of the page for the diagram annotated as "without EGR" and that shows the two-switch configuration that was cut off from the original:

bottom half of page

UE36103 is the upper stat housing with a single switch fitting while UE40364 is the one with two. When you look at the first note set for North American Delivery cars within chassis number range 30001 through 35429 all falls into place. Your US spec Wraith II falls into this chassis number range while mine is beyond that range.

Also, the original annotation regarding whether the cars had EGR or not is incorrect. There's a complex interplay of factors at work.

Brian
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Robert Noel Reddington
Grand Master
Username: bob_uk

Post Number: 688
Registered: 5-2015
Posted on Saturday, 14 November, 2015 - 06:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The Shadow has a complex electrical system. Even my UK spec one is complex enough without the egr equipment.

I use the Righthand drive diagram for post 16300 cars. Mine is 17768 1974. The diagram after is for 1975 cars.

My elbow is plain with no switches.

Imagine what a complete rewire would entail.

However if one looks carefully the loom is made from multiple separate looms. So it is possible but one hell of a job. The colours of wiring are available.

I fitted a new loom to Triumph Spitfire it took only 1 hour.

Its a shame one can't just remove the EGR EGR is really a naff idea that was a stop gap.

There are many aspects of my car which are different from the manual. Such as the pipe work for the ride height. It works the same but one has to feel ones way thought the explosion in a plumbers shop and the explosion next door in the electricians shop.
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Jeffrey Medved
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 76.72.128.197
Posted on Wednesday, 02 December, 2015 - 12:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I've got a '98 Spur (66123). I believe this is the thermostat housing pictured. Can anyone confirm that I have my labels correct?

MODERATOR EDIT: Unusable link removed and image is included below.


(Message approved by david_gore)
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Christian S. Hansen
Prolific User
Username: enquiring_mind

Post Number: 106
Registered: 4-2015
Posted on Wednesday, 02 December, 2015 - 06:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

David...
If possible, can something be done about that link? Break it into two lines? Its length makes the entire thread quite unreadable due to having to constantly scroll back and forth.

After consideration of this, then please delete my comment accordingly. Thanks.


Oh, and the RROC forum apparently no longer recognizes older browsers so those of us stuck in that mud cannot benefit from this information anyway. Seems it would be preferable, rather than posting a link that involves "clicking thru", to simply post the actual information here. Just saying, not trying to be difficult. Thanks.
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 1832
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Wednesday, 02 December, 2015 - 06:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Jeffrey,

Unfortunately your link will not work as it is restricted access.

If you message me using the MODERATORS window on the top RHS of this page and give me your email address, I will email an email address you can use to send me the image[s] you would like to place on the forum.
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 1771
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Thursday, 03 December, 2015 - 08:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hello All,

Since I still have access to the RROC-US forums through the kindness of someone who shall remain nameless and could click through, and this image is one that's been passed around before, here it is:

SZ Thermostat Housing and Switches Annotated

Brian
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 1834
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Thursday, 03 December, 2015 - 09:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thanks Brian - much appreciated.

The information about the temperature setting for each switch will be very useful when looking for replacements.
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 1778
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Friday, 04 December, 2015 - 02:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

David,

I agree. However, Mr. Medved appears to be looking for confirmation from the cohort to ensure that he has his function labeling as well as temperature labeling correct.

I'm reasonably sure that the collective wisdom is available here, but I'm out as far as the late SZ cars go in terms of the nitty-gritty on the temperatures.

Brian

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