| Author | Message | ||
     James A Unregistered guest Posted From: 144.139.125.67 |
This is my first post... here goes! I, being an engineer with a love for fine machinery, have just begun looking for my first Rolls Royce. I had pretty much decided to hunt down a good example of an earlier Shadow-II, mainly because to me this shape represents what I grew up as recognising as a Rolls Royce. (Well, actually it was the Shadow-I but with the car to be used daily I think the S-II steering and suspension might make it more enjoyable.) Having now read much of the material available in this forum, I am having second thoughts. There seems to be plenty of chatter about "issues" with Shadows (especially the hydraulic system) but comparatively little about the Spirit. Is this because of the relative numbers of Shadows Vs Spirits or are the Spirits less prone to some of the issues experienced by Shadows? | ||
| John Dare Unregistered guest Posted From: 144.138.195.17 |
Dear James. Your question has often been pondered and visual appearance of each style (Shadow v Spirit) is usually the personal determining factor when deciding which to purchase. Statistically, it is probably fair to say that you will have a better chance of finding a "good" Spirit than a "good" Shadow, given that the youngest Shadow (11) is now almost 25 years old. Of course early Spirits are not much younger, therefore the later "newer" car (Spirit) that you can buy will reduce but not eliminate, the prospect of buying a R-R that is in need of immeadiate and expensive major work. You have probably "read" more about Shadow problems than Spirit, simply because the former are older, have generally recorded more miles and therefore potentially exhibit more problems. Remember that the original Spirit was basically a new style body located on Shadow 11 running gear. I believe that in some ways Shadow 11s are superior to the original Shadow (especially to anything built prior to 1969) and some people have the view that Spirits (of any model) are "better" than ANY Shadow. Whilst the 1990 and onward, Spirits are generally regarded as mechanically "de-bugged", be assured that there is still plenty that can (and eventually will) go wrong (and need repair) given that the earliest of those cars are now 14 years old and approaching high mileage/s etc. I assume you may have looked at Robert Chapmans website re pre-purchase of R-Rs and urge you to obtain (If you are in Australia) a TOTALLY INDEPENDENT (of the seller!) pre-purchase mechanical and body check. If you are outside of Australia, local R-R clubs should be able to direct you to a reliable,honest and competent R-R specialist, who, for a modest fee, will serve to protect your interests and avoid the absolute disasters which have befallen many before you. I am sure that other contributors will have different/conflicting views, however it will ultimately be your responsibility to consider the totality of the information given in good faith. Above all, be patient, be careful and Good Luck! | ||
| William H. Trovinger II Grand Master Username: bill_trovinger Post Number: 109 Registered: 8-2003 |
James; I for one cannot really speak to the Spirit/Spur and it’s needs. However, to the Shadow I will say that the hydraulics are maybe not the “issue” you perceive. There are several things to take into account one being the fact that these cars are now between 24 – 38 years of age. Many of the “issues” deal with either age and/or lack of proper maintenance or lack of use. Two, as I would believe more is being posted regarding Shadows due to the fact that they are more popular among DIY enthusiasts. Due to their design these cars can still be worked on by a DIY. Where as the Spurs are more likely to still be going to mechanics for repairs thereby, creating less requests for advise and less comments. I hope that some of the users of this site that have first hand experience with both models will give you their impressions. Regardless of which model you choice I wish you happy motoring. Best regards, Bill caretaker ’76 Shadow | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 178 Registered: 4-2003 |
Boy, you have trodden on a minefield. Let's start with a general statement: there has never been a bad Rolls-Royce model. So, if anyone tells you "model x is trash", don't believe it. You will, however, hear opinions on every model, especially within the Shadow-Spirit arena, where the people have good and valid reason to say why each particular incarnation is the best. Of course every improvement has its drawbacks. Really, to ask "Shadow or Spirit ?" is like asking a panel to recommend a colour to you. At great risk I shall give my quick opinion. Series: Silver Shadow I: More woodwork on the facia. Getting old now. 1968+ 3-speed trasmissions work far better but are less of a novelty, and for an engineer the early 4-speed is truly a masterpiece of manufacturing. Silver Shadow I: 1969-1972: well sorted by then, stronger front suspension than all later cars, more modern and safety features (headrests etc) Silver Shadow I: 1972-1976: chassis 13485 onwards: compliant suspension works better; very reliable cars Silver Shadow II: Vastly superior steering, but problematic, and eventually leaks like on all later cars. Nice climate control, but expensive to repair like on all cars until 1986 Silver Spirit up to 1986 chassis 16930: Greatly improved hydraulics over the Shadows, ugly door caps with ashtrays built in on early cars Silver Spirit 1987-1989 chassis 20,000-27,998: many refinements with very few drawbacks, better component standardisation, detail improvements throughout, improved transmission, ABS, EFI. More ECUs to go wrong. Silver Spirit 1990 onwards chassis 30,000 on: Active ride useful but expensive to repair and they often need it. ECUs for everything from window to headlamp controls work well but hidieously complicated and expensive. Improved cross-bolted crankcase. 4-Speed transmissions from 1992 better, but again ECU controlled. Now I shall be shot yet again I guess. RT. | ||
| _James_A Unregistered guest Posted From: 144.139.123.240 |
(Sorry about changing the user name - the board will not let me post again under "James A" since I have applied for registration. I hope this problem will go away once the moderstors review and decide upon my application.) Thanks a million for your help. It would seem that we "mentioned the war" to use a line from Faulty Towers! By the way, I am in sunny Brisbane. As a PERSONAL CHOICE based purely on aesthetic qualities, my preference is the Shadow-I. I had some concerns about the recirculating ball steering in them, but your tip about the later Shadow-I and the early Shadow-II is noted and appreciated. Are you saying the later Shadow-I steering is tighter? I suspect that most in this forum will bite me for this, but I do plan to be one of those Shadow-owning DIY’ers. I have built several trophy-winning off-road race cars (from bare shells) including some fairly complex systems like: · Rear-mounted gearbox air-blast cooling · Remote engine oil filtering/cooling · Hand-fabricated suspension & steering components · Power steering circuits with air-blast cooling & filtering · Fabricated 4-barrel intake manifold · Differential converted to non-differential (I called it a “Transarc Locker”) Yet I still took the automatic transmission to a specialist for servicing and I balk at the thought of maintaining the Shadow’s hydraulic systems. My point being, one should know and respect one’s limits of ability. As for the three/four speed automatic question (here comes another landmine) I firmly believe the GM Turbo 400 transmission was the best in the world in its day. The strongest evidence of this is its choosing by Crewe over their own four speed. (Did I hear somebody say something about a war??) I see this as a big reason for me (personally) not to go with an early Shadow-I. Despite all this, I have every intention of paying an expert to check any RR before I part with my hard-earned folding stuff. I am probably 12 to 18 months away from THE purchase, but I am the type of person who likes to make a very well informed decision. Typically, I like to know how a thing ticks BEFORE I buy it. This forum is great. It is the best source of information I have been able to find on the internet and excellent testimony to the spirit shared by RR owners. I am both very grateful for and receptive of the advice. | ||
| _James_A Unregistered guest Posted From: 144.139.123.240 |
Oh, I forgot to ask... Richard, Could you please expand on your comment about the front-end of the Shadow I 1969-1972? What are the differences? What is the chassis number range? Also, please elaborate on the "compliant suspension" on the later Shadow-I. I have heard of a suspension up-grade kit for the Shadow-I. Is this myth or reality? James | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 179 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hi James, The pre-compliant Shadow front ends until chassis 13484 have a rigid upper wishbone, whereas all later cars have compliant mounts. The earlier system is sturdier and works fine. The compliant suspension is a little better, mainly in the noise transmission department, but of course more rubber bushes means more to go wrong. The large Silentblock compliant bushing is a real rotter to replace, and they need it eventually. Not a major point, but more of a comment. I would prefer the compliant suspension, but as a consolation the earlier suspension is still very good with radial tyres and a little more reliable and easier to repair. On steering boxes, there were three different ratios, each revision with better performance in my opinion. They were chassis 1001-6428, 6429-11216 and 11216-26700. All were rather too slow, but became better with the changes. Our car is SBH13247, so we unfortunately just missed out on the compliant suspension, but have the fastest recurculating ball steering. The steering boxes last a lifetime unlike the SSII racks. As for the Turbo 400, it is a fantastic unit. However, I also have a 1954 R-Type. It has a Hydramatic transmission 4-speed built by GM. Later, R-R built them themselves, but they are still GM Hydramatics in truth, and this continued until 1968. The Shadow 4-speeds did at least have sprag clutches. When I overhauled my R-Type transmission I was amazed at the beautifully engineered design throughout, but a Turbo 400 is just a box full of modules. The 4-speeders are an engineering masterpiece for the fanatics, but you are correct that the Turbo 400 works much better. Oh, and by the way: my task today is to remove and replace the Turbo 400 in my Turbo R. DIY is definitely not a dirty word around here, and many of us have successfully tackled auto transmissions. RT. | ||
| John Dare Unregistered guest Posted From: 144.138.194.37 |
Dear James, Now that you have indicated your preference for a Shadow 1, the importance of a INDEPENDENT check is CRUCIAL, since the "youngest" of those cars are now 28 years old. Many have been owned by several owners, one (or more) of whom may have abused and/or neglected the vehicle to the point that no amount of money (not to mention the TIME!) will ever return it to a sound and acceptable standard overall. Even if you locate a "good" one (with no rust, GOOD or at least "acceptable" paint, chrome,stainless trim,leather & wood interior) be prepared to spend $5000 initially (probably on suspension and brakes) and maybe another $3000 to $5000 within the first few years until the car "settles". I base this forecast SOLELY on experience which is often a most reliable guide. You might spend more or you might (if you are lucky) spend less. Beware particularly of NON-Australian delivered vehicles most of which have been imported in recent years and STILL are today ( typically ex H/Kong/Japan/U.K)often by fast buck merchants in desperate search of the quick and "easy" dollar. The general reason why such cars were/are exported FROM those regions is because they were, (for all practical purposes) UNSALEABLE in their "home" country/region. Good quality cars simply dont HAVE to be exported as there are many buyers within those countries, looking for good quality/condition cars just as WE are. If you are in Brisbane, I strongly urge you to have Barry Sparkes (NBS Services) in Geebung (Tel. 07 38653062) conduct a comprehensive pre-purchase check on ANY R-R which you may choose to purchase. I must admit some bias to Shadow 1 cars (pref.69 to 76) since my own (built/signed off in Jan. 1970)has no central locking or cruise control (both being sources of trouble from time to time) and I have fitted a later steering box,slightly stiffer stab./anti-roll bars and springs to improve the handling. Since we dont (or perhaps shouldnt) buy these fine and regal cars for "handling", I dont dwell on that aspect, preferring to turn on the radio and the Air/Con. if reqd. (no complicated "split level" Shadow 11 A/C system!) and simply enjoy the drive whilst appreciating the car for WHAT it is, any and all minor "faults/traits" notwithstanding. I have owned many makes of "marque" cars and ALL had some kind of problem with R-R/B (irrespective of model) being no exception to the rule. One simply looks at, and enjoys, "the BIG picture" as they often say. All of the foregoing is based upon observation/experience etc. (talking/listening to other owners/specialist repairers etc.) and whilst based upon those factors, is nevertheless delivered merely as personal OPINION only. PS; DONT forget to look at Robert Chapmans (Bayswater, Vic) web-site re PRE-purchase etc. | ||
| _James_A Unregistered guest Posted From: 144.139.126.87 |
Many thanks John & Richard. I had already checked out Robert Chapman’s web site several weeks ago and already concluded that it would be most foolhardy would buy without a professional inspection. I live on the southside and I recall seeing mentioned in one of the other topics a chap based at Sunnybank Hills who was into RR repairs (Sunnybank Hills is very handy for me). Who was he? At the end of the day, I may be buying from interstate, so it would be handy to know trustworthy & capable inspectors in most capitals. Is there a register somewhere? Apart from the "H" or "X" (or "A" for the USA ones) in the chassis number how can I tell an import? For example, ones delivered to UK or Australia both have the "H" in their number, don't they? Is there a record available of which chassis numbers were originally delivered to Australia? So many questions! I hope you do not mind. PS: I also now realise that I have committed the unpardonable sin by referring to the Shadow as Shadow-I. Please excuse me. | ||
| John Dare Unregistered guest Posted From: 144.138.194.25 |
Thank you James. I can give you contacts in all states for pre-purchase inspection so please revert when you are ready to proceed. Yes.. so called "home market" standard body R-R cars displayed SRH etc., but many cars here carry that alpha prefix, being cars that were clearly NOT delivered new to Australia. I have never seen a "register" and would be reluctant to accept a given sellers claim (based thereon) unless of course he had (as I do for my car) details of the original sale/delivery here when new and/or some other form of conclusive evidence. Re your sin occasioned by referring to a pre Shadow 11 as a Shadow "One", I also sinned when, upon first joining the ranks of R-R owners, I innocently described post 1971 Shadow wheel covers as "the SLOTTED ones", whereupon I was immeadiately set upon by a self proclaimed font of knowledge (and appointed doyen of the R-R "establishment") who sternly interjected with the "correct" word i.e VENTED. How satisfying it was to "vent" my revenge some years later when he routinely referred in general (but private) conversation to a Bentley T "One". I suspect he is still in recovery mode notwithstanding the reciprocal nature of my response,the tenor of which, I hasten to assure you, was in no way ambiguous!. | ||
| Bill Coburn Grand Master Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 151 Registered: 4-2003 |
Ah John, the Tee One brings tears to my eyes. You will have noticed my masthead for the 'Topics'. This came about from an event right here in Canberra when a potential member arrived at a meeting. He was a salt of the earth type capable of fixing anything, would scrub up well and do anything for anyone. So having been introduced to the assembled he was asked to rise and talk about his car. 'Well' he said, 'I've got a Tee One......' which was as far as he got since a member of the meeting chastised him with the remark 'Well that's wrong for a start' and proceded to hector the poor fellow on the nomenclative niceties observed by the Rolls-Royce namers before their cars left the Factory. The hapless fellow apparently sat down and left shortly after never to be seen again.. I am wrong, I did see the car again devoid of all its RR hydraulics sporting a vacuum servo and by and large the car ran OK. Would have been an interesting member methinks but we will never know. | ||
| John Dare Unregistered guest Posted From: 144.138.194.132 |
What a sad but not unfamiliar tale whereby an apparently reasonable person (and potentially valuable member) was humiliated by a learned "expert" of the kind whose monolithic egos are so often inversely proportional to their physical dimensions and general status (or indeed relevence) in occupied space. When I first heard of the "Tee One" group (for which you should receive a knighthood or at least a OAM!) I "knew" WHAT was being conveyed ( Not a GOLF club!) and did not seek to engage in verbal gymnastics nor deliver a dissertation as if I were addressing the U.N General Assembly. As for the hapless member who never was, I will be reminded of the unfortunate soul each time that I am assailed with R-R related "facts" as delivered so voluminously from those indomitable centres of higher learning. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 180 Registered: 4-2003 |
To find the first owner and the location, you may request the build sheets from the RREC in the UK. As an engineer, you will find the sheets a nightmare. R-R back then concentrated on quality inspection and rectification, a complete no-no these days as quality is measured by how few rectifications are needed. R-R methods, so openly advertised in those times, are rather shameful. Anyhow, the build sheets include the original customer's order and all changes until delivery. Any RREC memeber, myself included. could help you source a copy. Cost is, from memory, around £30 plus postage. | ||
| John Dare Unregistered guest Posted From: 144.138.194.245 |
Thank you Richard re the suggestion of obtaining RREC build sheets in order to establish intended provenence etc. I am sure that you have those for your Bentley T as I do for my car and agree that overall they can be somewhat difficult to read, due in part to cryptic notations many of which are as understandable as those featured in Egyptian burial chambers. My build sheet contains three references (with exclamation marks added thus.. !!!) to windscreen wiper motors as the perplexed fitter tried three until he found a "good" one. Regrettably, the same tireless efforts do not appear to have been applied to my differential!. I usually suggest that owners seek these sheets AFTER purchase (if they are interested to that extent) since to aquire them beforehand involves cost which could begin to mount if a buyer was looking at several cars which, with Shadows, is so often the case. If one of those cars happened to be a good example (in or out of his home state) there is always the risk that by the time the sheets are obtained (ex U.K) the car has been sold to another party. For those reasons, I personally prefer to see local sales/del.invoices and/or handbook notations (although I have heard of forgeries thereof!) together of course with service records and details of repairs,particularly those of a major and expensive nature. I simply feel that such data provides are more reliable index not only for the provenence of the car but also its likely(?) mechanical condition having regard to the nature and expenditure of local work as performed. | ||
| Ashley James Unregistered guest Posted From: 62.255.0.5 |
1. If the differential is whining on a Shadow, replace the engine mountings. If they are not perfect you get a sound like the back axle or the fan whining. 2. Most agree that the hydraulics on the Shadow are a great deal more trouble than those on the Spirit. I had both and found the Spirit more reliable for what that proves. | ||
| _James_A Unregistered guest Posted From: 203.221.176.66 |
Thanks Ashley. Re your comment about the hydraulics, in your opinion is that more to do with the age of the vehicles or with design improvements over the years between the models? Having owned both a Spirit & a Shadow, I'd like to hear your comments about the overall "driving experience" of the two. Given that I plan to use the car as an everyday vehicle (about 15,000 to 20,000km per year) it is important to me that it is not too hard to, for example, manoeuvre in and out of parking spaces. (I have yet to figure out how I will be able to leave her unattended but I note comments elsewhere about the alarms on the Flying Lady.) Of lesser importance (Oooh boy! Am I glad she is not looking over my shoulder right now!) my wife is somewhat petite. Has anybody anything to add about the "other half" driving the Shadow or Spirit? (Now I am certain I heard somebody mention the war!) Does either have more adjustment in the seats or steering wheel? | ||
| Martin Taylor Frequent User Username: martin_taylor Post Number: 25 Registered: 11-2003 |
Hi James, I service elevators for a living (some hydraulics) and apply the theory that anything well maintained will not fail you. I replaced all the hoses shortly after purchasing my early Shadow and have had very few problems since, I've done the following with regards to hydraulics : Replace all hoses, Flush both systems Reseal- rebuild rear calipers, Strip and clean front accumulator switch contacts, Strip and lube ceased brake pedal hinge, Replace contacts in brake light switch. My better half is a small women (under 50kg) she can drive the car with ease due to its super light steering (no feel) and the electric seats moving up to a height where she can see over the dash. Parking is not a problem for her but I can't leave it anywhere without worrying about it. I have a mascot alarm and normal alarm (mostly for the convienience of remote central locking). But it is not a car to be left unattended. | ||
| _James_A Unregistered guest Posted From: 203.221.176.66 |
Thanks Martin... talk about an active forum!! I have not fully reconciled how to attack the parking issue. Where I work, there is a secure carpark and my allocated spot is between a pylon and the back wall (i.e. no adjacent cars with doors threatening to knock the paint.) It means leaving her in the company of a Lexus or two and various Holdens, Falcons & Toyotas, but I guess she will not catch any diseases! Is rust contagious? However, several times a month I will need to park in the Brisbane CBD area for an hour or two; which means either finding a spot in one of those multi-story parking centres or trawling for an on-street spot. What experiences can be shared? | ||
| Bill Coburn Grand Master Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 152 Registered: 4-2003 |
A friend rang me to say his immaculate low mileage Spirit simply would not start. As I look after the car for him I found him and the car in a central Canberra, card entry under building car park where he has a permanent booking. Indeed no response from the ignition key. I sent him off in my Spur (that's what friends are for) and pondered. Found power at the primary starter relay and jumpered it whammo we have power Houston! Got it home and dumped it with my great saviours Lee and Thomas the electrical geneii. Somebody they discovered had cut a wire under the dash to isolate the burgler alarm! The car otherwise was not damaged. Where there is a will there is a way as they say! I understand that RRM took one of the first Bentley Azures to a romantic location for the big release. It was equipt to sense everything including a change of mind and parked under a very exclusive (presumably romantic) hotel. Next morning it was gone gone gone!!! And I believe has never been recovered. That to me is James Bond stuff! | ||
| _James_A Unregistered guest Posted From: 144.139.126.8 |
Now you are scaring me!!  Insurance is one thing but the heartbreak of a theft! How do other deal with this? | ||
| John Dare Unregistered guest Posted From: 144.138.195.82 |
Unfortunately these cars attract not only thieves but also vandals and other moronic types who, being conscious of their irrelevency upon the stage of life, are consumed with bitterness due to an awareness of total and complete failure. I know of two Rolls-Royces simultaneously vandalized by some physically challenged, insignifigant, mental midget, whilst their owners were attending a car club meet!. You simply have to be VERY careful where you park/leave your car and basically need to apply some risk management principles together with instinct and common sense. If you sense danger, proceed by taxi/cab or drive to/from a given venue in a less visible car. Sorry, but thats how it is! | ||
| William H. Trovinger II Grand Master Username: bill_trovinger Post Number: 110 Registered: 8-2003 |
James; I think John is on the money. At least here in the states car thieves are more interested in cars that can be cut up and the parts sold easily. These people do not want to work hard; otherwise they would have honest jobs. Older RR/B vehicles do not offer the “fast buck” for them. The parts are not that resalable except to RR resellers and enthusiasts. I do not know about down-under but here as more and more new cars get GPS systems integrated with the alarms we have sadly seen a down turn in car theft and an up turn in car-jackings. As I said these guys are basically lazy, why take the time to figure out how to defeat an anti-theft system when with a gun or knife and at stop light you can just drag the owner/driver out of the car and drive away. Vandals are I think much more the problem and as John said know your surrounding. When parking choose well-lighted areas with a good amount of people movement this is your best security. Regards, Bill | ||
| Ashley James Unregistered guest Posted From: 62.255.0.5 |
The Shadow uses RR363 which is, to all intents and purposes, brake fluid, the Spirit uses mineral oil. In my opinion the Shadow needs annual fluid changes together with all the previous advice on maintainance that has been posted, whereas Spirits just need new discs and pads fairly regularly. Both are very easy to drive by anyone who is patient. Parking is really easy but I did not like the rolling and wallowing of the Shadow at anything above a very pedestrian pace. I had an R-R handling kit fitted which did not help much but spoilt the ride. Later I discovered that fitting Bilstein shocks all round and a Turbo R roll bar on the front made driving far better, it understeered less and responded much more directly with no roll. Spirits get better to drive the newer they are, the pre'85's are the worst, but ride better than Shadows. From 87 on they begin to feel like a modern car and have a better interior. I also think Goodyears are better than Avons. My car was a UK one and may have had different suspension. Obviously I'm just expressing opinions and others may disagree. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 182 Registered: 4-2003 |
I wont let these fools spoil my life. Park sensibly and wear the consequences I say. I had my R-Type vandalised twice at lease. The first time was at Mollymook just after an expensive total respray in 1975. Someone went right down one side with a coin and exposed the metal. That was repaired at reasonable costs. The second time was outside my then new girlfriend's place in Mosman about 14 years ago after I had just resprayed the car completely myself from bare metal: old boyfriend suspected. It was a deep knife cut all the way down the side. However, having cans of paint on hand, I could easily rectify it. I also had a cigaretter butted heavily into a fender once at Coogee Beach. I had beaten a guy smoking a fag to the space: better be couteous and give up any slightly disputed spot. So, vandalism: accept it and be prepared to have it repaired. Theft: 1. Choose a Bentley: they are less prone to all of this. Loctite the mascot thread on older cars. 2. Fit an immobiliser. Injection cars are easy to immobilise such that no thief has a chance to start the car. Simply place the immobiliser contact in the power wire behind the centre console. Best use a dual pole switch and break the gearchange circuit as well. Also useful is to open up the gearchange circuit part way down the loom in a concealed place. The immobiliser can be anything from a hidden switch to a remote electronic device. Pros only go for new cars and use tow trucks, so only kids usually try to steal these cars. On carburettor cars, an immobiliser can be used to lock the automatic choke on when the ignition is powered by any means, to break the starter control circuit, to short the points and to open up the wire to the points. If you do all this at once you will have caused serious trouble. Theft of parts is the hardest to deal with. Forget the mascot: just remove it (you can buy an adaptor to do this easily. Worse are hubcaps as they are worth more than a mascot. One disaster I had with another car, my BMW convertible, was in Berlin. Someone preumably followed me into the secure car park one night. Next morning, the roof was cut open (cost thousands of Euros to replace the roof) and nicked the CD player (cost only some hundreds). They stole the garage remote control which I always left in the car. The useless administrators took three months to replace the remote control and disable my old one. Every few weeks more and more bits dissappeared from my car: alloy wheels, exhaust etc, so I left it at work until the garage was sorted out. So, secure parking can be more risky than the street. So, nowhere is completely safe and I just take measured risks without inconveniencing myself. | ||
| William H. Trovinger II Grand Master Username: bill_trovinger Post Number: 111 Registered: 8-2003 |
Richard; I am glad you made the comment about the ‘old boyfriend” even though we where all thinking it. On the comment of immobilizing the car, you bring up an interesting point. If one just removed the “gearshift cut-out” would this not stop the little buggers from hotwiring the car and driving off? I must admit that I have never removed same to see what the car could and could not do. I will concede I have had bad experiences with “after-market” anti-theft units causing more trouble then they are worth. To All; Now I know this is going to get me in trouble. If one thinks that the driving characteristics of a Shadow are too “wallowing” then way buy a RR in the first place? Would not a MB 6.9 liter of the same vintage be more suitable? I know it is just my opinion but these are “Ultra- Luxury “ cars not GT Saloons. Back in 1981 a friend of ours had both a 1979 SS II and a ’81 Cadillac Fleetwood (with of all things the V-8-6-4 engine) and he felt that the Shadow was better to drive in the city and the Cadillac was best on the interstates. I think his reasoning was two fold; one in the city he was seen by those that knew him. Two, in the country the Cadillac had ¾ time power steering, which did give an allusion of more control. Best regards, Bill | ||
| Ashley James Unregistered guest Posted From: 62.255.0.5 |
I do see your point Bill but I found it very difficult to adapt to driving the Shadow after my Citroen or my MKVI because of the wallowing. In the UK breakers sell Turbo R roll bars for £50 and they are easy to fit, do not affect the ride and they stop the severe roll that occurs before the car steers. It seems extraordinary to me that R-R were not inclined to act when Jaguar were consistently described as having a better ride and handling. The Turbo R is after all a sorted Shadow and they ride and handle pretty well. | ||
| _James_A Unregistered guest Posted From: 203.221.176.66 |
A trick I have used on a non-RR car is to hide a circuit under the dash that, after a random delay, shorts the points and kills the fuel pump. During the delay time, it progressively rev limits from about 1000RPM to 2000RPM (progressively causing more and more mis-fires until the points are shorted at 2000RPM). The idea is a would-be thief can still start the car, but thinks the car is running very badly, missing, coughing and constantly stalling, without making him/her think it is immobilised. Hopefully they will think they stole a lemon and move on. It works best for joy-riders. | ||
| Jon Rothwell New User Username: jon_rothwell Post Number: 4 Registered: 4-2004 |
The Shadow or Spirit question is one I've been wrestling with for some months now. I've already got a 1975 Shadow and have been looking at a Spirit as I like the square 80's styling. I won't go into the mechanical debate on the two models, others with far more knowledge than me have done that and I really couldn't add anything worthwhile. To me it just boils down to what you like, I have no problem with the Shadow brakes, steering or suspension and find them easy enough to work on, overall the car is very reliable. I will buy a Sprit, but probably in addition to my Shadow as the Shadow prices seem to have stabilised, but the Spirits seem to be still coming down. I remember in England in the 70's you could buy an older (late 1950's) Rolls for a pittance, and look at what they are worth now. The Shadows were a ground breaking model for Rolls Royce and in my opinion this will be reflected in the future value of GOOD cars as all the poor ones are junked. Why not by both? A good Shadow (or a poor one with potential if you are so inclined) as an investment, and a good Spirit as a daily driver. After all, both cars together will cost you less than a new Statesman or Fairlane, and they will probably depreciate less. Food for thought. | ||
| John Dare Unregistered guest Posted From: 144.138.194.156 |
Jon, I agree that GOOD Shadows will be a rarity,say in ten years time given that they are fairly scarce even today. Spirits are tempting and I have often thought of buying one however,despite undoubted advances in handling etc., I believe that in the longer term it will cost more to keep them on the road than a Shadow of comparable overall condition. I say this because of the increased reliance on electronics (ECUs etc.) especially from 1990 onwards,the erratic service lifespan of such components,diagnostic costs and THEN the cost of the part/s; refer current post discussing the cost (exchange) for a transducer/sender for a SS11. I have (for sale) a long block 82 Spirit engine (ex USA) removed at only 45000 miles for a GM conversion (because of "reliability" problems) after which time the relatively simple "problem" was,in that case, traced to the engine run sensor!. In absolutely NO way do I mean to malign Spirits nor imply that they are worse or inferior to Shadows. I simply believe they will cost MORE to own and operate over the longer term. Some Bentley Turbo owners have even asked me to calculate the costs to convert their cars to normal aspiration, a question which I do not even ATTEMPT to answer!. I have the same reservations about most modern cars and ask readers to contemplate the likely costs of maintaining and preserving cars such as a 7 series BMW where the myriad of electronics therein MIGHT be of a higher quality than normal, but nevertheless remain likely to fail at some point, with diagnostic and repair/replacement costs probably being disproportionate to the market value of the car. | ||
| _James_A Unregistered guest Posted From: 203.221.176.66 |
Jon: Thanks for your encouragement regarding the potential for the Silver Shadows to appreciate in value. This is one of the (lesser) things that makes them attractive - secondary to their aesthetic values and comfort. While I realise that I could have a Shadow AND a Spirit on a Fairlane/Statesman budget, the problem is I would like to stick to a Falcon/Commodore budget. (You will note my earlier reference to a certain lady who has to also approve my purchases – I could talk her into one RR but two is really pushing it!!) By my estimates, a Shadow on a “Falcon” budget when one considers the rate of depreciation is possible and probably less risky. (I KNOW a Falcon/Commodore will depreciate tens of thousands of dollars but a Shadow may or may not cost tens of thousands to maintain.) John: Thanks again for your informative comments. I have pretty much decided upon a Silver Shadow as close as possible to the release of (but before) the SS-II. The hunt begins! |
