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Al Abbasi
New User
Username: alabbasi

Post Number: 8
Registered: 02-2018
Posted on Wednesday, 26 February, 2020 - 09:07:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

All, I recently bought a 2003 Arnage T at auction which was said to have been running but did not when it arrived. It only came with a non functioning valet key (it would open the door but not start the car). I was able to order a new key from the dealer which was cut to my car, and use my scanner to decode the immobilizer so that I could program the key. The car will now start, however there is no power going to the fuel pump relay.

I can jump the fuel pump and get the engine running and it will stay running.

The key fob will start the car, but not operate the central locking system.

I had to disconnect the siren by the passenger side (LHD) fender in order to stop the racket. I can tell that the alarm is still going off because the hazards are still flashing so I have the following 3 questions:

1) Does the alarm cut the fuel pump?
2) How do you sync the key fob to get the central locking to work and for it to disable the alarm? I tried both VW and BMW procedures and neither worked,
3) Does the siren need to be connected for the key fob to be programmed

Any advice would be gratefully appreciated.
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Jeff Young
Frequent User
Username: jeyjey

Post Number: 414
Registered: 10-2010
Posted on Wednesday, 26 February, 2020 - 09:17:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The dealer had a hell of a time replacing the keys when I got mine (an '07 R). The single key I got with it was a valet key. (Note that it did correctly start the car, so it sounds like you might have more than one issue.)

In the end the factory replaced all the locks with new ones at their cost and charged me only for a new set of keys. (!)

I'm afraid I can't give you a definitive answer on any of your 3 questions, although I *think* the answer to (1) is yes.
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Al Abbasi
New User
Username: alabbasi

Post Number: 9
Registered: 02-2018
Posted on Wednesday, 26 February, 2020 - 09:50:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I appreciate the response. I'm hoping that I can find a wiring diagram. I checked the bentley assist program but the wiring diagrams are not available.
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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Prolific User
Username: soviet

Post Number: 1685
Registered: 02-2013
Posted on Wednesday, 26 February, 2020 - 10:38:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Al - a PM to Forum member Paul Yorke in the UK may provide the answer.

(Message approved by david_gore)
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Richard Greene
Experienced User
Username: benzjag

Post Number: 188
Registered: 12-2012
Posted on Wednesday, 26 February, 2020 - 12:31:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Al...As stated a few days ago after watching your YouTube video, I have been through this already with my Arnage. Until you can get the alarm system totally sorted, the car will NOT start. After much research, the ONLY answer I found is that the dealer must scan the system. This is one of the tremendous negatives in that Bentley does NOT share schematics or scan programs with independents (or anyone else). My problem was the alarm module itself. There are several sensors in the car that can trigger the alarm. Even after the new module, the dealer had to deactivate one sensor to keep my alarm from activating. I'm hoping you find the answer I could not. Good luck.

Richard
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Al Abbasi
New User
Username: alabbasi

Post Number: 10
Registered: 02-2018
Posted on Wednesday, 26 February, 2020 - 13:00:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Vladimir,thanks for responding. I will ping Paul Yorke.

Richard, I got the car started by decoding the immobilizer and making learn the new key. Prior to doing this, the engine would fire for a second and die when the computer cuts the ignition system. This is typical of immobilizer behavior. I can still demo this with the valet key. This makes me think that I'm past the immobilizer issues.

The alarm as I understand it is on a different circuit (per the Bentley assist documentation).

If I lock the door, I can turn off the alarm, but as soon as I unlock it with the key, the alarm goes off.

Once I run out of ideas, I'll take it to the dealer. I'd like to try that to figure it out first.
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Richard Greene
Experienced User
Username: benzjag

Post Number: 189
Registered: 12-2012
Posted on Wednesday, 26 February, 2020 - 13:11:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Yes, the alarm system is the problem. I sincerely hope you can find your answers! Keep us in the loop!
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 3612
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Wednesday, 26 February, 2020 - 14:09:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Al Abbasi,

Does the Arnage have Yale ignition/door keys? If so, a Yale locksmith should have access the the relevant key designations for the ignition and valet key blanks as is the case for the earlier Silver Shadow range.

The key profile shape is different for the respective keys however I cannot remember if the cut profile on each key is identical - would one of our Shadow owners check their keys and advise please.

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Al Abbasi
New User
Username: alabbasi

Post Number: 11
Registered: 02-2018
Posted on Wednesday, 26 February, 2020 - 14:19:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

David, unfortunately they do not. It has a laser cut blade in a flip key fob, similar to VW or Audi of the same era.
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 3613
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Wednesday, 26 February, 2020 - 15:43:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Al,

The downside of modern technology strikes again - I wonder how the vehicle management system determines whether the key blade is a full access key or a valet key.

I assume the difference in activation is mechanical in nature and not electronic [which would be the case if a push button key fob has to be used to start the car].

I am very interested in how this system has been set up and what "work around" if any exists other than having to order a replacement master key from Bentley Motors. As a matter of interest, my partner has a 2009 VW Eos with a similar key to the Arnage but no "valet" configuration.
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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Prolific User
Username: soviet

Post Number: 1686
Registered: 02-2013
Posted on Wednesday, 26 February, 2020 - 13:02:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

"Bentley does not share schematics or scan programs ....with anyone"

Easily fixed - Bentley Arnage struck permanently from bucket list !

(Message approved by david_gore)
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Al Abbasi
New User
Username: alabbasi

Post Number: 12
Registered: 02-2018
Posted on Thursday, 27 February, 2020 - 01:39:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

David,

It's just like a regular valet key in that it will start the ignition and open the doors. It will not open the boot or the glove box. That part is about how the key is cut. The casing contains the keyless entry

This car does not have keyless start. There is a start button, but it requires they key to be in the ignition.

I did check the Bentley assist and it indicates that a scanner or some sort is required to align the key. I don't know if this is available to the aftermarket. I will continue to investigate.

My philosophy has so far been that VW will not make anything bespoke for Bentley when they have this technology shared across other platforms. Most of the research that I've done so far is on VW / Audi forums which is how I got the immobilizer decoded. I'm hoping that I can get the key fob aligned using tools available for VW cars.
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Omar M. Shams
Prolific User
Username: omar

Post Number: 1948
Registered: 04-2009
Posted on Thursday, 27 February, 2020 - 03:53:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

In reply to Mr Kirillov's statement:

Easily fixed - Bentley Arnage struck permanently from bucket list !

yes I totally agree but not just for this reason. This model of car has just done nothing for me and is not as good a car as the older ones or the ones that followed it. They are also a maintenance nightmare from what I have heard. Major things fail on them like cam shafts for example. I will stick to the older model cars
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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Prolific User
Username: soviet

Post Number: 1687
Registered: 02-2013
Posted on Thursday, 27 February, 2020 - 02:23:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Al there is also a South Texas branch of the Bentley Driver's Club so you could try contacting them before turning up at the Bentley Dealer with a wheel barrow full of cash.

(Message approved by david_gore)
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 3614
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Thursday, 27 February, 2020 - 06:47:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Al,

A "long shot" but worth trying anyway; how did the auctioneer describe the car at the auction and did they specify the car was without the correct keys?

If not, is there any recourse under Texas law for the auctioneer failing to mention the key problem before the auction?

If the missing key was not mentioned, I would consider this as misrepresentation and seek redress under your local laws for paying more than the car was worth due to misrepresentation by the auctioneer.

.
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Richard Greene
Experienced User
Username: benzjag

Post Number: 190
Registered: 12-2012
Posted on Thursday, 27 February, 2020 - 07:16:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

My Bentley guy (and friend) is retired from the dealership with 45 years experience! I trust him 100%. He said EVERY 2000+ Arnage WILL have a head gasket problem;it's just when. The cost of replacing the HG is between $12,000-$15,000. He said some owners try to get by cheaply with a "back yard" repair only to have the car brought to him to fix the mess!
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Al Abbasi
New User
Username: alabbasi

Post Number: 13
Registered: 02-2018
Posted on Thursday, 27 February, 2020 - 07:16:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Vladimir,

Thanks, wheelbarrow full of cash? I don't even have enough cash for a wheelbarrow?

David,

I buy a lot of cars at auction. That might be a battle I could win if I never wanted to do business with them again.

I appreciate the advice so far. It's an interesting puzzle that I'm determined to crack.
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Jeff Young
Frequent User
Username: jeyjey

Post Number: 415
Registered: 10-2010
Posted on Thursday, 27 February, 2020 - 08:23:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I think that's every 2000 - 2006 Arnage. Both the head-gasket and the camshaft issues were fixed in the 2007 engine changes, were they not?
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Richard Greene
Experienced User
Username: benzjag

Post Number: 191
Registered: 12-2012
Posted on Thursday, 27 February, 2020 - 08:41:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Jeff,

You are right! My error!

Richard
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 3615
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Thursday, 27 February, 2020 - 10:31:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Al - after your experience, why bother with them in future?

They obviously cannot be trusted to properly describe the vehicles they auction.

Under no circumstances, would I bid on an expensive vehicle that wasn't started and driven onto the auction dais before bidding was called unless I was after a "parts donor".
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Al Abbasi
New User
Username: alabbasi

Post Number: 14
Registered: 02-2018
Posted on Thursday, 27 February, 2020 - 15:27:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

David,

I do it all the time. 90% of the time, it works out. It's a national auction and I did not pay a huge amount for the car so if I need to cut my losses, i suspect that I won't be too far under water if I dismantle it and sell off parts.... Provided that I make that decision before I show up with a wheelbarrow full of cash at a dealer.

The biggest challenge on these cars (all RR and Bentley models for that matter), is that DIY knowledge is somewhat light when compared to a Mercedes or BMW forum. They're all put together the same way and will likely break the same way. The more people DIY, the more will be on the road. I've also been learning the silver shadow, it took me about a year of weekends to figure out the brakes and rebuild the carbs (among other distractions). They're not that complicated once they're figured out.
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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Prolific User
Username: soviet

Post Number: 1688
Registered: 02-2013
Posted on Thursday, 27 February, 2020 - 09:09:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Al, David is right, you need to fleece the auctioneer for bad manners.

I am only qualified to sit the bar examination in Colorado (where the FBI must take my finger prints) and New York (where they don't want my fingerprints) but in Texas I would have to do an bit more study to practice but that's another story...

I would if I was you go to your local court house and have an summons or a writ issued in the name of the director/president of the auctioneer's company and then go and have an nice friendly chat with him/her along the lines of SHOW ME THE MONEY.

A quick perusal of law books on Contract, Negligence and Consumer law at any Dallas library would bring you up to speed.

As for the Arnage itself, I have seen some yap about cylinder head problems but you could turn this to your advantage if you love spanners/wrench work etc by buying up problem Arnages and fixing them etc.

They are an fast car.

I could mention that certain reliability enhancements could be made to your car remembering that spark, compression, timing, and fuel is all you need to make the car proceed.

There was a bit of screaming anger vented not too long ago at a Bentley Dealer in North Carolina so before you fill the wheel barrow full of cash and proceed cap in hand to the dealer explore all other avenues unless a polite phone call to the dealership reveals that they can fix it for under $500.

Enjoy.

(Message approved by david_gore)
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Pieter Burke
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 94.30.54.85
Posted on Friday, 20 November, 2020 - 00:03:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

For electrical schematics in ASSIST, open Publication Index and select Electrical Circuit Information

(Message approved by david_gore)

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