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Rick Sellers
Yet to post message
Username: pistonbroke

Post Number: 1
Registered: 09-2019
Posted on Sunday, 15 September, 2019 - 10:49:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi everyone.
I know this subject was reviewed some years ago but has anyone made any progress on a suitable OBD2 code reader (and SRS code reset) for the early Arnage/Silver Seraph?
Any help would be appreciated.
Cheers!
Piston Broke
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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Prolific User
Username: soviet

Post Number: 1638
Registered: 02-2013
Posted on Sunday, 15 September, 2019 - 12:24:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Rick I am certain I saw heaps on the forum about this matter before on the forum.

Here are three gentlemen who may be of assistance.

1. Paul Yorke UK

2. Jim Walters Canada

3. Brian Vogel USA
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Rick Sellers
New User
Username: pistonbroke

Post Number: 2
Registered: 09-2019
Posted on Sunday, 15 September, 2019 - 19:56:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thanks for the response.
I have been through all the responses on the forum and none have actually answered my question (that is unless I have missed one somewhere). There must be an OBD2 reader out there which will work with these cars, I believe that post 2004 it is not a problem.
I would love to get some guidance from the experts you have mentioned in your post.
Thanks again.
Rick.
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Omar M. Shams
Prolific User
Username: omar

Post Number: 1885
Registered: 04-2009
Posted on Monday, 16 September, 2019 - 04:14:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Dear Rick,
I flogged this issue to death and had to concede to the angles of Derby. They won!!
The cars have been configured for Mastercheck - not OBD. The OBD ports are only placed into North American spec cars because it was a legal requirement - not because Rolls-Royce wanted to do so. The OBD ports are configured with the bare minimum to conform to legal limitations. Thats why you cannot access the airbag module through it. You need to use the Mastercheck - no other tool works. There is a method of using a switch and connecting it to a certain socket in the passenger side front footwell - but i had no luck with that.
The long and short of it is that a 10 year timer kicks in to force the user to replace the explosive charges once a decade. You are there already with your car!! I was also there with my Azure so I simply took the display panel and tricked it into thinking that the airbag system is ok. I have accepted that my car does not have a working airbag (like the majority of classic cars).
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 2967
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Monday, 16 September, 2019 - 04:56:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I'll add on to Omar's observations that, put most simply, there are different "levels" of OBD-II readers that may or may not include the ability to interrogate codes for ABS (antilock brakes), SRS (supplemental restraint system AKA airbags), and several other "advanced categories."

Even if the reader itself can do this, the automobile itself must be set up to present this information to the reader to read. Many do not (as Omar has pointed out).

I also wonder, and hope Omar never finds out, whether an airbag system giving the "replace me" warning is actually intentionally disabled while that warning is active or not. I'd hope not, as I'd sure as heck want an airbag system to make the attempt to deploy whatever airbags are present whether or not said airbags are "past their expiration date." What's interesting is that none of my cars that have airbags and are over the age of 10 years, and I have a 1996 Buick Roadmaster and 2007 GMC 2500HD, display any warnings related to the SRS just based on age - and I'm very glad they don't. Should I have an accident where deployment is indicated I full well expect the system will at least send the signal to deploy whether or not the ignitor is capable of doing so or not.

Brian, who wears seatbelts religiously to begin with, and for whom SRS really is supplemental
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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Prolific User
Username: soviet

Post Number: 1640
Registered: 02-2013
Posted on Monday, 16 September, 2019 - 05:15:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Well hell, I do not need an airbag or a seat belt.

But this is what I did.

I got hold of an Australian biker. I got him very drunk.

I cranked the music.

He had eight Moto Guzzi.

I then, as we sat eating wallaby road kill completely convinced him, that because his life was so dear to the Australian Government, that he would be required to wear a seat belt on his motorbike.

In do feel bad about that.

But it was a giggle.
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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Prolific User
Username: soviet

Post Number: 1641
Registered: 02-2013
Posted on Monday, 16 September, 2019 - 05:27:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

But still interested in what Paul and Jim have to say about this little chestnut.

Downunder, late model Spirits and Spurs with EFI and airbaggery are dropping in value faster that obese pimpled ladies pushed out the back of an Anatov flying close to Yakusk.

So I think Omar is right.
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Richard Greene
Experienced User
Username: benzjag

Post Number: 171
Registered: 12-2012
Posted on Monday, 16 September, 2019 - 09:27:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Rick,

I went through all of this recently with the alarm system on my 99 Arnage. My master mechanic has all the latest software, BUT he could NOT get it for the pre-2003 Arnage. He tried diligently for about a month. I finally had no option but to take it to the dealer. My guy there has just retired as their master RR/Bentley tech (38 years). He confirmed Bentley will NOT share ANY software. He agreed with me that Bentley is/was a bitxxh to deal with. I am hoping to prove him wrong with your post! This & very litte to no help online is the reasons I am NOT in love with the car!

Richard
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Robert J. Sprauer
Frequent User
Username: wraithman

Post Number: 543
Registered: 11-2017
Posted on Monday, 16 September, 2019 - 13:38:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Richard, Send an email to John E. Robison, one of the most knowledgeable techs/shop owner and RROC member/technical editor of The Flying Lady club magazine. He is well aware of the level of complexity and limitations in diagnosing the layers of modern RR/B systems. Many of the diagnostics are not done locally, but centrally from the factory and many service shops do not subscribe or not factory dealers, so diagnosing issues is a major problem especially with propriatary modules.
Many newer cars are going this way and the buyer must return the car to the dealer for service and maintenance leaving only gas, oil and tire pressures in the consumer's hands.
http://www.robisonservice.com/
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Rick Sellers
New User
Username: pistonbroke

Post Number: 3
Registered: 09-2019
Posted on Monday, 16 September, 2019 - 21:23:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Wow !
Thank you all so very much for these informative replies!
Thank you Vlad, Omar, Brian, Richard and Robert.
Out of interest, my car does have a standard looking OBD2 Port but from what you are saying, I will need a 'Mastercheck' system to interrogate the OBD2 Port. I believe that the actual SRS (Airbag light) is due to the passenger presence sensor in the front passenger seat being U/S.
I will also touch base with John.
Cheers.
Rick.
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 2968
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Monday, 16 September, 2019 - 23:37:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Rick,

I (and in this case I think I can safely say we) are not saying that you can't use a standard OBD-II code reader to get codes, or at least the vast majority of them that are non-proprietary. The whole point of OBD being made mandatory was so that service shops could get said codes.

But, there are plenty of codes that are proprietary and there are also modules that are not part of the OBD system at all on some cars. The whole Mastercheck era was an example of that. I do not believe Mastercheck was even in existence anymore for the Seraph/Arnage era cars, but I could be mistaken about that.

OBD-II became mandatory equipment on cars sold in the USA as of the 1996 model year. The SZ (Spur & Derivatives) cars of that era had the RR proprietary Mastercheck port (and the software used to interrogate same) but as of 1996 Crewe "grafted on" an OBD-II port for US market cars because they had to. By the time the Arnages were released OBD-II had become so much more common worldwide that pretty much all makes were equipping their cars with an OBD-II port.

What was also not yet necessarily standard was providing information on ABS or SRS via OBD-II at that point in time. It's pretty much a de facto standard now.

I know that many have written in the past about the airbag sensor "out front" (as in the thing that would sense a collision) having gone bad and looking for a replacement or substitute on the SZ era cars. I'd have to look in IETIS to see if that specific part carried over to the Seraph/Arnage era, and it would not shock me that it did.

Brian
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 2969
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Monday, 16 September, 2019 - 23:45:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Just checked IETIS for both the SZ era and Seraph era cars.

The former is awash in search results for Mastercheck. The latter returns not a one. Thus, I presume Mastercheck was a thing of the past at the end of the SZ era.

Brian
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Omar M. Shams
Prolific User
Username: omar

Post Number: 1886
Registered: 04-2009
Posted on Tuesday, 17 September, 2019 - 02:00:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Dear Brian,
I am sure you are right about the Mastercheck assumption. Here is a bit of fact - my other Azure (the 2002 one) had both OBD and Mastercheck sockets.

Dear Rick,
to answer this part : "Out of interest, my car does have a standard looking OBD2 Port but from what you are saying, I will need a 'Mastercheck' system to interrogate the OBD2 Port."
The OBD port is just that - an OBD port. The Mastercheck one is a different port that is circular in shape and has some 50 or so pins. If you use an OBD device or the Mastercheck device you will need to plug them into the appropriate socket.
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 2970
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Tuesday, 17 September, 2019 - 08:06:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Omar,

I believe you have the "SZ Series" version of IETIS and while the core of vehicles it covers range from the 1990-2000 model years, there is a note on the opening screen that reads, "All 2-door models (Model Year 1990 to 2003)."

Your 2002 Azure was in what I call "that transitional group." Crewe was, shall we say, unusual about how it handled both model years and production changes during same.

Brian
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Rick Sellers
New User
Username: pistonbroke

Post Number: 4
Registered: 09-2019
Posted on Wednesday, 18 September, 2019 - 22:16:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thanks Brian and Omar.
Great information.
It would be interesting to know if anyone has used an OBD2 code reader/scanner which is capable of reading the codes on the 99 Arnage.
Cheers!
Rick
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 2971
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Thursday, 19 September, 2019 - 00:38:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Rick,

Not to put too fine a point on it, but you're still being "too generic." It is virtually certain that any random OBD-II code reader that has a reset option can reset the codes on an Arnage that it is capable of getting.

The vast majority of the codes anyone is ever going to get from any make and model will be the core OBD-II codes, and most specifically the P-codes (Powertrain).

It would not shock me one bit if the Torque app used with an ELM-based OBD-II dongle can read and clear codes on an Arnage.

OBD-II is a standard, so the parts of the system that do not involve proprietary codes, which are allowed since there are obviously some things not common to all cars, are standardized. That's the whole idea, so that a random service shop can interrogate the system to see what it's saying is wrong.

There are even some reasonably inexpensive readers that have on-board libraries of the proprietary codes for a wide range of makers. My Innova 3130 does, but it does not read ABS or SRS codes and I believe that no cars from Crewe were listed in the on-board library it has, though Jaguar was, and I used that several times when I had my Jaguar.

If you do a search either on eBay or Amazon for "OBD ELM327" you will get hundreds of OBD-II dongles returned ranging in price from under $10 (and these work perfectly fine if all you're looking for is either to experiment or just get the core codes [P,B,C,&U classes]) and the price goes up from there, depending on what the manufacturer states the dongle can actually interrogate (e.g., ABS, SRS, manufacturer proprietary codes).

This page gives a nice overview of OBD-II: https://www.kvaser.com/about-can/can-standards/introduction-to-obd-ii/

I'd suggest you snag yourself a cheap ELM327 compliant dongle, the Torque app for your smartphone, and start reading your codes, provided they're something that dongle can read. That's the easiest way to get familiar with how this all works, and you can use it on any of your cars that has OBD-II just so you know what code(s) it's thrown if the Check Engine light (AKA MIL - Malfunction Indicator Light - in OBD Standard Speak) comes on.

Brian, who would also be very interested in knowing if anyone has discovered a brand or brands of either ELM dongles or actual full dedicated OBD code readers that "play well" with the Seraph-Arnage era cars and later and that can read their SRS, ABS, and Transmission codes

Quick P.S.: It appears that the Bluedriver OBD-II dongle ($100 US) does support Rolls-Royce [no mention of Bentley] that were sold in North America, which is the first I've ever seen RR mentioned.

Also clearing a code will do you no good if the condition that triggers it is unresolved. It's just going to pop right back up again. There's the occasional transient condition that will throw a code, but those will generally self-clear after a certain number of engine-on/engine-off cycles if there is no recurrence during said cycles.
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Rick Sellers
New User
Username: pistonbroke

Post Number: 5
Registered: 09-2019
Posted on Friday, 08 November, 2019 - 14:41:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Brian,

Thank you very much for taking the time to run through an explanation of the OBD2 codes and potential (or not) for me to get a code reader to do what I am after.

Please accept my apologies for taking so long to respond. (Unfortunately I have been off the air for a period).

Incidentally, I believe that I have fixed the fault but the AIRBAG light has to be reset even when the fault is fixed.

Thanks again for your assistance.

Regards,
Rick.

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