| Author | Message | ||
     James Feller Prolific User Username: james_feller Post Number: 126 Registered: 5-2008 |
Hi Bill, HNY to you! I was just reading the latest Tee One and with a knowing grin was recollecting about Visco fans. About 5 months ago I too had this issue raise or rather noise make itself known... For a while I had started to notice a roaring sound when accelerating. At first I thought it might have been the fan but it seemed to go away after a while. In the end though my Turbo ended up sounding like Concorde on take off when accelerating even ligthly... More disconcerting was the faster you went the more roar it made. You meantioned in Tee One that the Visco drive is basically rooted when you 1. can wobble it or 2. it keeps turning more than a couple of times after the engine is shutdown. I can confirm there is indeed a 3rd 'rooted' scenario. The whole viscous can collapse and internally seize thus the fan has no viscous at all and is a propellor in the radiator shroud. This was the case with my Turbo. So the cooling fan in my car then ran at a basic 1:1 ratio with the engine revolutions. You should be able to turn the fan with your fingers with only a slight resistance being given by the visco. In my case it was as stiff as a board or as seized as buggery, whatever term you like... Bill you are right these damn things are NOT cheap at $900 Aus. However I am prepared to forgive the item this failure, after sitting at the front of a huge, and what I could only imagine, immensely hot Turbocharged V8 for 20 years it is not a bad innings. Needless to say a new Visco went on with no fuss, solved the Concorde issue, and its V8 exhaust note is now all I hear when accelerating with gusto.... Cheers J | ||
| Bill Coburn Moderator Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 1215 Registered: 4-2003 |
Thanks James - new one for me I'll mention it next 'issue' with no credits to you of course as I have to appear infallible?????? The noise is off-putting and I have to get off my lazy bum and either 'bleed' the over filled one or do a new fill on the other spare one! If I ever get the S2 on the road I would dearly love to fit a viscous unit to that fan. My car is a 1960 model and visco units were not to be mentioned in the drawing offices of the Factory I suspect being some vulgar gadget those blasted Americans are wont to fiddle with!! However comma the 1970 Phantom VI I note with the same engine was fitted with a visco unit!! As to the cost, it is surely not helped by having four different iterations (that I am aware of) since 1960 and apart from the early Shadow which can enjoy a Holden unit they are all cunningly exclusive! PS Who is Gusto?? (Message edited by bill_coburn on 07 February 2010) | ||
| James Feller Prolific User Username: james_feller Post Number: 127 Registered: 5-2008 |
no copyright issues or credit with me Bill... mention away There were only two options I had, in the SZ cars you had either a metal fan or plastic one and of course the visco unit is not interchangable so yes one is rather 'limited' and has to use the Crewe jobbie. Gusto is the expression on the other drivers face as you overtake them in what they thought was a 'slow old Bentley' at 100klms and keep accelerating toward the horizon.. :o) J | ||
| Clifford Donley Experienced User Username: flatus Post Number: 42 Registered: 12-2009 |
In 1969 I had a new Chrysler car. I was stationed in Nevada, the only state that had no speed limits. I drove to my car's limits. One Sunday morning I was going like a bat out of hell when the viscous clutch had a catastrophic failure. The fan sailed right through the radiator stopping only because of the air conditioning condenser. I don't recall hearing any sound indicating the potential for a failure. I had AAA tow the car to the dealers lot. By Tuesday, they had received the parts and had everything back together again. Everything, including labor, was covered by warranty. I don't recall hearing of any other similar failures. But, this one scared the devil out of me; I thought I had blown the engine. It took me 50,000 miles to get the bugs out of that car. I sold it in Panama in 1976 to some dictator wannabe. Cliff | ||
| Omar M. Shams Prolific User Username: omar Post Number: 113 Registered: 4-2009 |
Are we saying in this thread that the viscous coupling from a Bentley Turbo is unique to this car? that no other coupling from an American car fits? hmmmmm......... | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2063 Registered: 4-2003 |
Omar, They are not unique to our cars by any means. You may, with a patient chap at a parts factor, save a few dollars by matching one from a Chevrolet for SYs and early SZs or a Range Rover and several American makes for later SYs. Someone mentioned $900 ! That must be from some locak shark. New in the UK they are priced at around A$250 plus shipping. Often they are on offer for as little as A$180. Secondhand they are usually one third the price if you are adventurous. RHT. | ||
| Bill Coburn Moderator Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 1216 Registered: 4-2003 |
Richard - ever the optimist - 'a patient chap at a parts factory' - I knew one once. A few months back I found a catalogue from, as I remember, a Nordic manufacturer who specialised in visco units. There were hundreds of listings but none for our bolt buckets. As Omar says surely etc.... and I agree! Apart from the dimensions and mounting, the other variable is the 'slip rate' (my term). Some SZ's here have been fitted with a Ford something unit which is very neat but apart from advertising itself worse than canine gonads (the fan is white plastic) it produces a noise reminiscent of a Banshee! I have friends who insist on originality and supply through the correct channels but to suggest that there is not a supply of these units exactly the same as the 'original' is equivalent to insisting on the cars' tyres being filled with Crewe air?!! | ||
| Bill Coburn Moderator Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 1218 Registered: 4-2003 |
Clifford Donley's experience with his Chrysler reminded me of a fellow with his new toy, a rather beautiful Ghost. Arriving at a meet he revved and revved the engine to demonstrate its excellence when there was an increable bang and a hole appeared in the beautifully polished aluminium bonnet. One of the fan blades had fractured, unable after many years to cope with the centrifugal force. | ||
| James Feller Prolific User Username: james_feller Post Number: 128 Registered: 5-2008 |
clarification.. as Richard suggests you don't have to USE the Crewe item per say, I was merely pointing out that the SZ cars had a metal or plastic fan if original and the 2 visco units for these are not interchangeable so if you are ordering one make sure you know what fan is up front. Yes I did pay $900 for a new one. Yes I suppose if I had known a little more I could have got it elsewhere and maybe cheaper too. However as I did not have a lot of time and the roar was somewhat 'out of charater' for the car I left it to the garage to fit a new one. If I look on some UK sites that I sometimes order parts from they are listed with the correct part code as about 350GBP... that makes them about $700 Aus then add shipping and you start to see why dingalings like me pay $900 for these... Omar no they are not Unique items to the Turbo, I suspect they are a fairly standard item across the range however Richard has enlighthed us about the other car makes that use the same unit. Cheers J | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2064 Registered: 4-2003 |
OK, but Introcar quotes UKL£142 before any discount. http://www.introcar.co.uk/acatalog/CHASSIS_NUMBERS_20000-59000_333_302.html Flying Spares quotes £125, also offering secondhand ones for £75. On this RROC(A) site, a search will show you a link which quotes the GM/Hayden/Four Seasons/Land Rover (ETC6841) part numbers which save a bit more too. As for expediency, you can do without the mechanical fan safely altogether for some time except in heavy Summer traffic thanks to the overly-generous cooling capacity. Even then, the electric fans are not exactly stretched. | ||
| Clifford Donley Experienced User Username: flatus Post Number: 43 Registered: 12-2009 |
I had an underpowered Austin Healey bug-eye Sprite. During winter I would remove the fan completely. I was driving mostly on open country roads. Never had a problem with overheating. And the gain in perceived power was remarkable. And the reduction in noise was much appreciated. | ||
| Udo Hoffmüller Frequent User Username: udo Post Number: 70 Registered: 2-2008 |
Just a question: I found that the viscous coupling ETC6841 should be the same as ERR2266. And really, they do look the same. I put an old TurboR coupling on the desk to compare, they are visually identic, but are they tecnically? Best regards - Udo | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2453 Registered: 4-2003 |
Udo, That Land Rover part ETC6841 (viscous coupling for Land Rover Defender 2.5 turbodiesel for All markets except for the UK and Europe) is superseded by the ERR2266 in the Land Rover parts books. As such, we can say that they are The Same. The ERR2266 is quoted as the original part for a LR 300TDi and sells for around A$95. The Land Rover part for UK & Europe is ETC7238, which is quieter but has slightly more slip for any given temperature. It sells for around A$45 or less, but is presumably unavailable outside the UK and Continental Europe, so thank goodness for online and export shopping these days. The ETC6841, where still available, is usually quoted at around A$125. These prices are typical for online Land Rover parts suppliers in the UK. I would, quite honestly, be happy with any of those three Land Rover part numbers given the overspecified cooling systems on our cars. Certainly, the ERR2266 would be the correct part. RT. | ||
| Udo Hoffmüller Frequent User Username: udo Post Number: 71 Registered: 2-2008 |
Dear Richard, fine to hear that ETC6841 and ERR2266 are the same. But as far to ETC7238 I compared them (only on pics) and would say that it is not compatible with ETC6841. Please look at the position of the threaded holes - on ETC7238 they seem to be positioned considerably more off the center than on ETC6841. I would suspect that our fan cannot be fixed on ETC7238. Or am I wrong??? Best regards - Udo | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2454 Registered: 4-2003 |
Udo, You may be correct. Where are you viewing these ? The pictures that I find don't support that, but never believe the picture in a catalogue !! At http://www.island-4x4.co.uk/ and http://www.hollandrover.co.uk/ they all look the same. The picture for the ERR 2266 is named ERR3443 at Island, which is for the V8 with serpentine belt, so the pictures may only be representative. Also, the prices range 10:1 for OEM vs aftermatket (UKL25 to UKL250 for the same part, different brand but probably made by the same factory). Incidentally, neither of those sites lists the ETC6841 anymore. Best stick to the ERR2266 I guess. RT. ERR2266, ERR3443 and ETC7238 at Island  <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< ERR2266 and ETC7238 at Holland Land Rover  | ||
| Udo Hoffmüller Frequent User Username: udo Post Number: 72 Registered: 2-2008 |
Thank you, Richard. If you look for ETC7238 on Ebay all the offers look different from ETC6841. But ERR2266 is always the same as ETC6841. So I guess, you are right, I will try the ERR2266. Here one of many Ebay offers for ETC7238:  Best regards - Udo | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2455 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hmmnn. At Brookwells http://www.brookwell.co.uk/ they indeed look different: ERR2262  <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< ETC7238  | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2456 Registered: 4-2003 |
Yes, the ERR2266 cross-references exactly to ETC6841 in ever catalogue I have found. Grüss from ZH. RT. | ||
| Roderick Waite Experienced User Username: rodwaite Post Number: 18 Registered: 1-2012 |
Picking up on this old thread, I had to replace the visco unit on my '84 Spirit as she was overheating on hills, in traffic, in summer. 310 GBP from Introcar, inc: tax and delivery. But in the process, I discovered two electric fans in front of the radiator. One runs, the other is seized. Are these auxiliaries to the main fan? Or does one (or both) do something else? Rod | ||
| Daniel Diewerge Experienced User Username: didi13109 Post Number: 26 Registered: 11-2009 |
Hi Rod, this fans are very cheap to replace. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G4910/. They should run both at the sa time. Cheers Daniel | ||
| Roderick Waite Experienced User Username: rodwaite Post Number: 19 Registered: 1-2012 |
Thanks Daniel, so they're simply auxiliary engine cooling fans ... I was quoted £315.00 as a part exchange! I guess Summit must be based in the USA, and provide a viable option. Rod | ||
| James Feller Prolific User Username: james_feller Post Number: 178 Registered: 5-2008 |
Rod the two black fans at infront are indeed auxillary cooling fans or Thermo Fans to be precise. They should both run together. Their purpose is to pull in more air mainly for the AC condensor that sits behind them but infront of the coolant radiator. These NEED to be working, especially in summer. IN very hot conditions and in stop start traffic they should be cycling in and out dependant on engine coolant temp sensors, the amount of air coming through the radiator and also AC refrigerant charge. You should hear them faintly whirring away and indeed notice a good vacuum effect through the grill if you are standing in front of the car and they are on. It has to be quite hot though, im not sure of the therm temp to initiate engagement however my advice is make sure they are working! every little bit of cooling power helps! While not prone to over heating generally the earlier SZ cars in my expirence do fluctuate, my 86 Rolls Spirit temp guage used to go to half and a bit beyond in very hot weather in stop start traffic and long hill climbs however it never overheated and the guage always dropped quickly when on the move again even with the thermo fans going. Contrary to this however my 20,000 series 89 SZ Turbo RL temp guage never moves regardless of outside temp. Only in hot conditions do its thermo fans come on. However you do hear them whirring away in hot stop start traffic from time to time in summer... Dont risk it, get them working mate! Cheers | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2488 Registered: 4-2003 |
All good stuff, James. A note: the Crewe cooling systems are incredibly oversized, and the motors are never at risk with a functioning cooling system. The electric fans are almost exclusively to make sure that the coolest outside air hits the climate control condenser first. If the electric fans go on the blink, then the cabin may be a nasty place to be. That is especially on a hot day with a tailwind when stopped in a traffic jam on Parramatta Road, so the condenser roasts on engine heat without electric fans to bring in the cool 40C air from outside. RT. | ||
| PETER DIXON Frequent User Username: petenlinid Post Number: 56 Registered: 8-2003 |
Good afternoon all. Today as I drove my SS2 on to my newly installed (reconditioned & certified) Tecalamite four poster hoist for the first time with a view to having a bit of a pleasant look and fiddle about underneath I encountered a noise coming from the engine compartment. It was and is and intermittent grating rattle type of thing. The engine was warm, idling perfectly, with the sound just coming and going, sometimes for short bursts, others several seconds. Quick revs of the motor also cause it to happen and at the same time there is a very short squeal similar to the sound of a slipping belt. With my limited ability and equipment I employed the old long wooden handled screwdriver to the ear stethoscopic technique to eliminate the possible cause of the noise from the other twirling things on and around the engine leaving me to feel it was something to do with the water pump or associated bits such as the viscous coupling. All looks fine while engine is running. There is no overheating and on a recent run out the temperature was normal. However on that drive the occasional short squeal was heard over a period minutes but went away after which the car was driven for another 70 kilometres at 100 kph without reoccurrence. Examination on arrival home revealed nothing obvious. I note today that the cooling fan has some play between it and the actual coupling. Apart from it needing to be tightened up I assume it may be an indication of a problem ti this area. I have looked through the RR Manual and have not been able to locate anything, particularly an exploded graphic of the relationship between the pump, fan and coupling. I know it’s out there somewhere and would be grateful to be pointed in the right direction. Are there ways of safely, briefly isolate the various pumps/pullies etc then run the engine to confirm what might be the offending part without removing them for bench testing. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Peter | ||
| PETER DIXON Frequent User Username: petenlinid Post Number: 57 Registered: 8-2003 |
Further to my posting yesterday. I have now located an exploded diagram ‘I think’ is relevant to my car: page C3/10, Spare Parts Manual TSD6166, Cooling System section, in the Technical Library and will use the part numbers for reference purposes. So far I have not removed any parts and am relying on a restricted view and feel. As stated the fan (UE40358) has lateral movement. It is tightly fixed to the viscous coupling (UE40167). The movement is between the coupling and the shaft (UE412116). I can feel the face of the key type washer fitting (UE43290) and the hole where bolt (UA208/Z) should be. There is no bolt. I guess that if my assumptions are correct and I am in fact looking at the appropriate or a very similar diagram to that as the unit on my car I am lucky the whole thing didn’t fly apart and do real damage. Obviously I will have to take it off for a proper look. Would it be safe to briefly run the engine once the fan and coupling have been removed in order to ascertain if they were the cause of the original noise? Any comments or advice will be greatly appreciated. Peter | ||
| Bill Coburn Moderator Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 1399 Registered: 4-2003 |
Peter/ When I clicked on this topic and found two year old offerings I thought I had finally mastered the time warp. Richard points out in the earlier batch that your car will run quite safely without the unit provided you keep an eye on the temperature gauge. The bearing between the visco unit and the drive shaft on your car has clearly enjoyed the sword and is non serviceable. Call Flying Spares or Introcar give them your credit card number and you should have a replacement within the week. | ||
| PETER DIXON Frequent User Username: petenlinid Post Number: 58 Registered: 8-2003 |
Bill, thank you for your response. My apologies if I raised my query in the wrong place and should have started another string. I have removed and dismantled the unit. It does not completely match up with any of the assembly diagrams I have. The coupling itself looks pretty much the same its just the mechanism for mounting to the pump is different, plus it is held in place by a countersunk allen bolt rather than an ordinary one. Which is of course why I couldn't feel anything. Anyway I will order a new one from Flying Spares. Thanks for your help. Cheers Peter | ||
| michael vass Prolific User Username: mikebentleyturbo2 Post Number: 270 Registered: 7-2015 |
Hi All Just seen this, note the one large fan , is this instead of the 2 aux fans? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BFPR2sCqBk Anybody else seen these? Cheers Mike  | ||
| Paul Yorke Grand Master Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 1725 Registered: 6-2006 |
Earlier car, yes. | ||
| michael vass Prolific User Username: mikebentleyturbo2 Post Number: 271 Registered: 7-2015 |
Thanks Paul |
