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Lluís Gimeno-Fabra
Experienced User
Username: lluís

Post Number: 29
Registered: 8-2007
Posted on Wednesday, 10 September, 2008 - 07:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi all,

Does anybody know whether the Yokohama Advan S.T. 255/60 17" W-rated tire (standard on the Porsche Cayenne Turbo, with similar weight and top speed, but a very different ride car indeed) will work fine on the 17" rims and wheel-arches of a Bentley Continental-R.

I am thinking of changing the Avons some time soon , their depth is still OK but they have suffered from standing still, and well, from my Jaguar experience Avons are really not my favourite tire and outrageously expensive they are as well.

Any other options or opinion?

Thanks as usual,

Lluís
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 1448
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Thursday, 11 September, 2008 - 12:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The Yokohama Advan ST 255/60ZR17 110W, which is a street/sport truck summer tyre applied to SUVs, is by nominal rating a little high (nominally by 3% by DOT standards, but read on), and with a weight rating of 2337lb it is a little hard in the ride department. Having said that, they have a manufactured (read the real) specified height of 29 inches, which is the same as the original Avon 255.55ZR17 102W or Michelin 255.55ZR17, discontinued since 2005. Both the Avon and Michelin are nominal 28"/manufactured 29" tyres. A Silver Shadow's 235.70HR(or VR)15 and Turbos'/Continentals' 255.65R15 106V are also 29" tyres for that matter.

So, the short answer is that the Yokos are fine in every respect, if overrated in load capacity.

Mind you, for my bit I prefer the possible superiority of the Finnish Nokian tyres. Further, the Nokian NRVi XL 255.55R17 108V was released in late 2007, and is of the latest technology to give a definite edge over the older competition.

Nokians are extremely robust, and as the most modern SUV summer tyre they offer excellent wet weather performance as a bonus. Their ride quality is unbeatable in SUV tyres also, as is handling and grip. Having driven a Cayenne SUV with Yokos and another identical but older one with Nokians, both at no more than 60 km/h in the city just as almost all are doomed spending their lives on school runs, the Nokians are decidedly quieter. The Yokos had a considerable road hum by comparison, but the difference is otherwise hard to distinguish.

I ran two sets of Michelin 255.55ZR17 102W HX MXM tyres on my Turbo R. They were brilliant in every respect, but as they were discontinued I switched to Nokian NRVi XL 255.55R17 108V. They are also brilliant, and despite the 108 load rating they are even better than the Michelins for ride and performance. SUV tyres have come a long way in just a few years. The Michelins left the ageing Avon designs wanting I must say. The 102W of the Michelins is overcompensated by the 108 load rating of the Nokians. The DOT ratings are such that a 108V speed-load rating is safer at 270km/h than the 102W due to the speed-load derating curve.

If you are driving regularly above 250km/h regularly and aggressively, perhaps the Yokos will be the ones, albeit with just a little too much compromise on ride. The 110W will offer a degree of safety over the original 102Ws if you drive at over 250km/h regularly. If not, then the Nokians exceed the OEM ratings in any case. Nokians are available in the USA and Europe, and I am following up to see if we may source them for Australia too soon.

RT.
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 1450
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Thursday, 11 September, 2008 - 01:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

This chart may be of interest. I ran 255.55ZR17 102Ws as I used my car often in Germany with its 2.28:1 final drive and no speed limiter other than the 4500RPM engine limiter.
application/pdf
Tyre sizes & axle ratios.pdf (11.1 k)
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Lluís Gimeno-Fabra
Experienced User
Username: lluís

Post Number: 30
Registered: 8-2007
Posted on Thursday, 11 September, 2008 - 04:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

As usual thank you for the information.

I'll try to get the Nokians in case the flatspots on the new-looking Avons I have do not self cure within a few hundred miles. Tomorrow I'll try increasing the pressure about 10% over the recommended maximum to see if that helps.

Ride quality is very important to me, in particular because I am quite surprised of the rather firm ride the Continental in town, so I#ll try softer sidewalls. I do drive regularly in Germany, but usually not over 200. As for my weekly tours in the Netherlands, make this 120.
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 1451
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Thursday, 11 September, 2008 - 04:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Ok.

You may as well look at the NRVi site to make up your mind finally:

http://www.nokiantyres.com/tyre?id=10360782&group=2.02&name=Nokian+NRVi+SUV

Just as a guide, I bought mine at Pneuhage in Waldshut, Germany, on the Swiss border last November. The set of four, fitted and balanced, cost me just €981.74 includung the German €7.76 environment/old tyre disposal tax, a tax supposed to pay for the disposal of the tyres once they are worn out. That was VAT/GST free as I live in Switzerland. You need to add VAT where applicable. It is worth ringing around for quotations of course.

RT.
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 1452
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Thursday, 11 September, 2008 - 04:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Note that the NRVi range was released progressively from 2004 onwards, with the easy sizes first to come along. The 255.55R17 108V tyre was released in late 2007.
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Lluís Gimeno-Fabra
Experienced User
Username: lluís

Post Number: 31
Registered: 8-2007
Posted on Thursday, 11 September, 2008 - 05:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I found them in the Netherlands, price is 169€ plus fitting and balancing, including VAT, which is amazingly attractive. The Avons were 469.
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 1453
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Thursday, 11 September, 2008 - 08:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Wow, that's a good price ! I thought that just shy of €250 each for Nokians fitted and balanced was good. Even allowing another €20 or less for fitting, weights, balancing, valves and disposal, your price is phenomenal. That's in the Opel Vectra price range... The four 17" Michelins cost me €1026 plus €80 for fitting etc excluding VAT last time, and the Avons were quoted at over €1900 plus VAT. In the UK, a good price for the Avon 17" tyres is Ł310 plus VAT. That's about €400 each. With VAT on tyres at 16% in Germany or 17.5% in the UK, the Australians are spoiled at just 10% by the way. Its seems that desirability in inversely proportional to price this time !

RT.
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Lluís Gimeno-Fabra
Experienced User
Username: lluís

Post Number: 32
Registered: 8-2007
Posted on Friday, 12 September, 2008 - 12:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

do you know think link:

www.reifendirekt.de

I have used it both on my cars and my father´s and they were always quite decent in service, only once I got an oval tire but they do have a warranty.

Price includes transport, by the way.

One more question should the oil temperature gauge move much from the cold position with gentle driving and about 25 °C exterior temperature?

I will post another question in a separate threat.
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Lluís Gimeno-Fabra
Experienced User
Username: lluís

Post Number: 33
Registered: 8-2007
Posted on Friday, 12 September, 2008 - 12:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I meant THIS not THINK link. sorry
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 1455
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Friday, 12 September, 2008 - 01:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Yip, but reifendirekt is not represented very near us, and the partially-franchised subagents are typically not so friendly. A day trip to Freiburg i.B. and back for tyres is a little excessive just to save a few EURs. I bought a set of Pirelli tyres for my BMW at www.reifendirekt.de in Freiburg i.B. and they were just fine as long as you know exactly what you need,

Maybe I paid a little more than at reifenditrekt for the Nokians, but the saved hassle at Pneuhage nearby in Waldshut made it worthwhile. Hr. Geng at Pneuhage rang me to tell me that the Michelins were NLA, but I commend him for finding the Nokians before I knew that my order for Michelins was impossible rather than simply dumping me in a panic.

RT.
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Lluís Gimeno-Fabra
Experienced User
Username: lluís

Post Number: 35
Registered: 8-2007
Posted on Friday, 12 September, 2008 - 05:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Yes, you are right

I put the (wonderful) continentals on my Jaguar also at an specialist in The Hague, paid more but I was very happy (balancing was and still is perfect, and I am a maniac).

On the other hand my father has the opposite problem, specialists in his area, in Tarragona, are expensive (over 30% on reifendirekt) and unfriendly (will not even chech alternative sizes/brands), reifendirekt is then a good compromise. Pick up the tires, bring the wheels to the shop, get them fit and balanced, put them back on the car, finito.

If I may ask, where did you live in Germany/Switzerland? I though you were in Australia.
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 1457
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Friday, 12 September, 2008 - 05:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Zürich, Schweiz. And Canberra, Australia.
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 1459
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Wednesday, 17 September, 2008 - 12:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

ps I made a few errors in my earlier posts. It makes little dufference to the result.

The Yokohama Advan ST 255/60ZR17 110W is a 29" tyre, while the 255.55R17 tyres are 28", even more reason to choose the 255.55R17. The Yokos would cause the speedo to read 3% low and would mess up the on-board computer. Sorry for the errors.

I note that reifendirekt.de offer DOT2005 Nokian NRVis at €105, a big discount on their main NRVi offering. That is because they were made in 2005, and are old-stock pre-production tyres. Mind you, reifendirekt.de and their affiliates in other countries offer fantastic prices all round. They are affiliated throughout Europe and the USA, but sadly not in Australia. I could have saved a bunch buying from them here in Switzerland, and their affiliate here is only 1km from my home.

Click http://www.mytyres.co.uk/ for the UK for example, or on the national flag at the bottom of it or of www.reifendirekt.de for other countries, languages, local prices and reviews, although the reviews are highly inaccurate.

Is there an equivalent discount online tyre outfit in Australia anyone ?

RT.
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Lluís Gimeno-Fabra
Experienced User
Username: lluís

Post Number: 36
Registered: 8-2007
Posted on Wednesday, 17 September, 2008 - 05:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

No discussion on that 255/55 is the recommended size, hence one tries to stick to it. I did post the price for the non-2005 tires, 2005 pre-production tires do not seem very tempting on a 150 mph 2.5 ton car do they?

I was just thinking, independently on that, is it really that serious a 3% change?
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 1460
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Wednesday, 17 September, 2008 - 08:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Agreed, just over 3% is not a big deal, albeit just above the limit of allowable speedometer error. Having said that, the motor registry test here checks the speed at 60km/h on the test track with a radar, and mine has always read 60.0 km/h. That is the limit allowed here as it must read +3% / -0%. The tester always warned me that I should be careful in the speed traps. An under-reading of 3,6km/h at 120 might just tip the error over the edge, especially allowing for measurement errors elsewhere in the system if they work the wrong way too..

Also, a 255.60 will increase the ride height maybe by as much as 2cm comparing partially worn 55s to new 60s. Sure it’s not much, but still annoyingly noticeable on a flash car like a Conti R.

And yes, I would certainly avoid old-stock tyres, especially with the deals on offer which you have found available for new-stock tyres. You will often read that tyres have a safe life of 5 years. I personally subscribe to that, and limit speeds to about 210 when the tyres are more than 3 years old. Even new unused, but especially when fitted and left standing on a car for a while, and even more especially when exploiting their performance to any degree, that has to be a safe policy.

I also subscribe to the view to keep the tyres inflated to the maximum reasonable at all times. I run 2,8/3,4 Bar front/rear (40/49psi). Any Australian with a reasonable memory will remember the Radial Tyre fiasco, where the Kleber brand was wiped out after several highly-publicised blowouts. The vehicle manufacturers wanted pressures so low for comfort that the tyres overheated and blew out. Provided the tyres wear evenly, a highish pressure can do no harm.

RT.
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Lluís Gimeno-Fabra
Experienced User
Username: lluís

Post Number: 38
Registered: 8-2007
Posted on Wednesday, 17 September, 2008 - 10:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Just to add some more info, I just took the car to balancing the 3 year old Avons.

In the last few hundred miles there has been indeed a big improvement in the vibration, so I will just give the tires a balancing and see how it goes, in the next few weeks I have 2 1500 miles trips at very boring french highway speeds, so plenty of hopefully safe testing miles.

Next crusade is door speakers.

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