| Author | Message | |||
     Neville Davies Experienced User Username: nev_davies Post Number: 11 Registered: 9-2006 |
The time has come to start renewing the steel brake pipes at rear of my 81 Spirit.I have a choice of making up copper pipes myself or buying ready made steel ones.Does anyone know of any objections to using copper and would anyone know the measurements and fittings should I need to buy steel ones? Nev | |||
| Bill Coburn Moderator Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 1000 Registered: 4-2003 |
Under no circumstances use copper, it is not capable of handling the pressures of the system. The correct steel pipe is listed in the workshop manual and the size depends on the pipes function. Take the old pipe off and take it to a good brake shop and they will make you a new one with fittings. | |||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 779 Registered: 9-2004 |
Cripes cunifer brake pipes are tested to 3100psi. They are easer to work with! In most cases will outlast the steel type! What pressure do the Spirits run Bill. Am I missing something? The cunifer comes out well compared to the steel in the test: "Current production steel tubes passed the 60-cycle requirement but failed well before 120 cycles. The 90-10 copper-nickel tubes completed 200 cycles with essentially no reduction of their original burst strength". | |||
| Neville Davies Experienced User Username: nev_davies Post Number: 12 Registered: 9-2006 |
Thanks Bill I had a feeling this might be the case. All the MOT people seem to be using copper for the normal run of cars and I just hoped that would do.I will make a list of lengths and fittings when I do them, would certainly be handy to have as it seems I will have to send away for them and I find accurate measuring on the car a little awkward. Nev | |||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 780 Registered: 9-2004 |
"Users of copper-nickel brake tubing in addition to Volvo include world-class vehicle manufacturers like Rolls Royce, Lotus, Aston Martin, Porsche and, most recently, Audi. Copper-nickel is also used in military, fire fighting and other heavy vehicles". The more modern types! The link to confirm. http://www.copper.org/applications/automotive/brake.html (Message edited by david_gore on 12 August 2008) | |||
| Paul Yorke Prolific User Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 195 Registered: 6-2006 |
Steel pipes are much stronger, but much harder to work with. Measurements are not easy as you have found, but also the bends are very difficult to do in situ. I would happily use the Copper-Nickel pipes. They are stiffer than the copper pipe but still manageable and flare-able with hand tools. Do not attempt to do it without a serious / professional flaring tool. The pipe is strong enough . . . but only as strong as the weakest flare. I would never use plain copper pipe myself, but having said that, I have seen plenty of R-R & B's with plain copper pipes on and have not seen it cause any problems. Over here in the damp old UK, Corrosion is the biggest cause of leaking pipes. Occasionally you will get one that is worn through, but this is usually because of wrong fitting, routing, or somebody has levered against it. Hardly ever because of general moovement. | |||
| Bill Coburn Moderator Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 1001 Registered: 4-2003 |
Whoa Patrick! Sorry I took so long to respond but hair shirts are not easy to get and the blasted ashes keep getting in my eyes! It just goes to show one should not be adamant about anything. Next is to confess I have never heard of Cunifer piping but then at 71 maybe I could have and forgoten. I do remember a big old Chev that blew a copper line in the braking system many years ago which nearly precipitated a disaster involving a runaway vehicle and I saw the back end of a Shadow literally dripping with brake fluid where some clever dick had put in a make-shift copper line to the rams which had split. Well now that you have shattered my infallability I will go look up the reference and bring myself into the twenty first century, at the same time Neville will be alerted to the considerations needed for the repair and act accordingly. Thank you. | |||
| Paul Yorke Prolific User Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 196 Registered: 6-2006 |
LOL Bill, no need to go that far! I had a look at the link . . . and noticed it was sponsored by COPPER , which would normally make me disbelieve it all! : ) I've used Cu-Nifer pipe on Clouds, Shadows and Spirits without problems. Copper pipe is 'supposed' to be pressure rated as well, but it feels sooo soft I can't bring myself to trust it on a R-R. Bill I wonder if the actual tube split on the cases you saw? Or if it was poor flares that was the problem? Neville, I forgot to mention - use the proper bending tools or you will end up with kinks or damaged pipes. | |||
| Bill Coburn Moderator Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 1002 Registered: 4-2003 |
Thanks Paul/ I'll return the shirt and have a shower! In both cases the tubing split! (Retreats back into box) BBC | |||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 821 Registered: 4-2003 |
DO NOT USE COPPER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES | |||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 822 Registered: 4-2003 |
Having trouble posting detailed explanatory post for some reason. Will post explanation as soon as possible. | |||
| Gus Brogden Experienced User Username: gus Post Number: 11 Registered: 2-2008 |
Copper will work harden, get brittle, and split or crack from vibrations in an automotive app. Type "M" or "L" copper pipe is nice to work with but copper doesn't hold up well where there is vibration. I would use it in an emergency to get me through, but would change it to the right material asap. | |||
| Paul Yorke Prolific User Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 197 Registered: 6-2006 |
Bill, well from that experience I would also say don't use copper!! I always felt it was too soft for R-R use. I've always used CuNi even on 'normal' cars despite advice from others telling me copper was just as good, and so much easier to work with. Glad I went with my instinct. David . . . I hate that - spend the time typing a long reply, then it wont post! Arggghhhh. lol. Always fit all the mounting clips no matter how hard they are to get to. If you have a totally inaccessible clip, put one each side. Clips by nature are so much easier to remove than fit! | |||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 781 Registered: 9-2004 |
Maybe the clue is in the Spirit brake pipe etc type,have the pipes a fitting with a }rubber type seal like the Citroen systems! IF not Cunifer Kunifer is fine,will not work harden etc, the pipes should be fixed correctly, as should the steel type. | |||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 782 Registered: 9-2004 |
Paul,missed your post on your cunifer application on Spirits,so not the Citroen type pipes. | |||
| Paul Yorke Prolific User Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 198 Registered: 6-2006 |
Pat, I think the 81 should be 'normal' ends. Later Spirits are more of a problem! Of course, now would be an ideal time to modify it and convert it to the later type valve. (now that is a fiddly, neck, twisting job. My best advice to all is to get under your cars now and clean and waxoyl all the pipes ( well everything ) now! | |||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 824 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hi Paul, Have been trying for 7 bloody hours to get the explanation posted. The problem is with the overseas host server for the forum timing out - probably due to overloading of the Australian internet services by Olympic-related downloads. Not a happy chappy right now!! (Message edited by david_gore on 12 August 2008) | |||
| Neville Davies Experienced User Username: nev_davies Post Number: 13 Registered: 9-2006 |
Paul It was whilst under the car brushing off the pipes prior to treating them I felt it might be a good idea to renew them, only appears to be surface rust but (idle hands and all that) now seems a good time to renew.From the comments,I assume the operating pressures could be a problem,am I right in believing the max pressure is that that is supplied by the gas unit? if so that would appear to be about a 1000lbs/sq.in how does that compare to say my Audi? Nev | |||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 783 Registered: 9-2004 |
Which year and model Audi. A geat number have spheres! | |||
| Paul Yorke Prolific User Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 199 Registered: 6-2006 |
I hope you're not going to cannibalise your Audi for the pipes!lol. Pressure should be about 350psi on minimum pressure valve, about 500psi @ max height I think. I guess if you fully load the car and the springs fall out of the cups (this is when the pipes usually burst) it could go up to the maximum system pressure, about 2500 psi. I can't remember if there's anything to limit it below that apart from the accumulator valves. Accumulator spheres are about 1000 psi, gas springs about 240 psi. The sphere pressures are irrelevant to the pipe pressures though really. Incidentally, a bust pipe is also a good way of getting your rusted spring cups off! | |||
| Neville Davies Experienced User Username: nev_davies Post Number: 14 Registered: 9-2006 |
Patrick. No the Audi has conventional type master cylinder I was just curious as to the variation in fluid pressures.Perhaps I'd better just give the thing a polish. Nev | |||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 784 Registered: 9-2004 |
Neville Paul and All. Over the years I have used wax oil and other types of rust preventives including old sump oil mixed with pariffin,IMO old sump oil has proved the best,with application by the air pressure spray gun. Wax oil does not penitrate into the brake line clips like sump oil. IMO wax oil drys out quicker. One disavantage of the old sump oil is that it does make a mess if to much is applied or the mix is to runny. Hope this helps to prolong the life of the pipes and the lower parts of the car. Paul what do you think about the UK MOT pass and advice with corroded brake pipes? | |||
| Paul Yorke Prolific User Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 200 Registered: 6-2006 |
Patrick, I agree with you about Waxoyl being too thick. I use the normal waxoyl in black, not underbody and I always dilute the Waxoyl with ATF or White Spirit in the winter and - summer or winter - I leave it to stand in boiled water until it is as thin as possible. I then decant it litre by litre so it doesn't start to thicken again. You can never get every single part of the car in one go, so I top up any areas on the annual service. Waste engine oil - Tut Tut - Health and safety would have a field day . lol. Re: MoT. I find them surprisingly generous with brake pipes AND brake hoses! Much more lenient that I am . . . for a change! | |||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 825 Registered: 4-2003 |
Your friendly metallurgist/moderator here once more with lots of problems posting to the forum  - I will have to do a series of small posts to advise on this topic: In my opinion, the best material for replacement brake lines is 90/10 Copper Nickel alloy which also carries a "Cunifer" brand name in some parts of the world. This alloy has the best combination of formability, strength and corrosion resistance for arduous service conditions albeit at a higher [but not prohibitive] cost than conventional steel brake lines. | |||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 826 Registered: 4-2003 |
I am aware of failures of copper hydraulic lines retro-fitted to R-R/B cars from posts on other forums over the years. These failures occurred at bends in the tube. The failure mechanism involved is a combination of: 1. Initial work hardening of the copper tube from the bending process during installation. 2. The presence of scratches/nicks/gouges on the surface of the tube. 3. Cyclic stressing of the tube in service from pump cycling/brake applications. | |||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 827 Registered: 4-2003 |
The reason for this is Copper "work hardens” when subjected to stress cycling and this work hardening makes the material notch sensitive which may result in unpredictable failure of the material. Repairers love the copper tubing because it is easy to bend, flare and it does not corrode in regions where salt is used for de-icing roads. | |||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 828 Registered: 4-2003 |
I am very concerned that the use of Copper tube is condoned/permitted by the regulating authorities for brake lines and particularly in the case of high-pressure systems. I would not like to see an insurance company accident investigator pick up on this for an accident caused/exacerbated by failure of a Copper brake line. (Message edited by david_gore on 13 August 2008) | |||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 829 Registered: 4-2003 |
IN MY OPINION, PURE COPPER TUBING SHOULD NEVER BE USED ON MOTOR VEHICLES EVEN THOSE WITH "CONVENTIONAL" BRAKING SYSTEMS. | |||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 785 Registered: 9-2004 |
Paul re:Waste engine oil - Tut Tut - Health and safety would have a field day . lol. Ah we have an approved designated area used with the old coronation lift with all the protective clothing etc. The car is left with us for two days for a good soaking! David, did not know anywhere that could sell plain copper for brake pipes. What regulated authorities allow this? | |||
| Jeffrey McCarthy Frequent User Username: jefmac2003 Post Number: 65 Registered: 5-2007 |
Hi Patrick, Unfortunately the stuff is sold in bulk on ebay, as plain copper 'brake pipe'. Maybe this is the alloy stuff but I wouldn't take anything sold on ebay for granted. Maybe there are thousands of cars out there just waiting for critical failure ? Scary thought... Jeff SRH20280 | |||
| Paul Yorke Prolific User Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 201 Registered: 6-2006 |
You can buy copper or CuNi pipe on eBay or any motor suppliers. They are listed separately and the CuNi one will be dearer . . . but not in the long run! Lots of old classic cars do have copper pipes and don't seem to have problems. . . . but they don't run at high pressures. Copper kits have been used for years, but I guess the kits are produced using 'proper' flaring equipment and bent on a jig or using professional quality benders. I wouldn't be surprised if the vast majority of burst copper pipes were done with diy tools and bent with pliers etc. | |||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 830 Registered: 4-2003 |
The standard annealed copper tube is sold by plumbing, refrigeration and air conditioning suppliers. The product is often sold with surface damage from shipping and/or handling in the shop - this does not affect it in its intended application but is a recipe for disaster in automotive applications. The annealed copper tube is prone to pick-up on the formers and/or scoring regardless of the bending method. I suspect the importance of removing surface defects on copper tube after forming for critical applications is not widely recognised. "Lots of old classic cars do have copper pipes and don't seem to have problems. . . . but they don't run at high pressures." I think the lack of regular use and "gentle driving" characteristic of these cars is the more likely explanation however the lower system pressures during braking applications will also be a big help. The failures I am aware of occurred on cars which were used regularly for normal driving. (Message edited by david_gore on 14 August 2008) | |||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 1426 Registered: 4-2003 |
Yep. We have heard it all. There are the merits of converting to copper and copper alloy brake lines, to vacuum brakes, to positive chassis electrics on older models. Don't forget that superb electronic ignition which works 100% forever. Now for the ultimate modification. That is to convert all the wheel threads to right hand threads using Holden steel wheel nuts. How about that for the greatest modification to our cars ever ! | |||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 1427 Registered: 4-2003 |
Yep. We have heard it all. There are the merits of converting to copper and copper alloy brake lines, to vacuum brakes, to negative from positive chassis electric potential on older models. Don't forget that superb electronic ignition which works 100% forever. Now for the ultimate modification. That is to convert all the wheel threads to right hand threads using Holden steel wheel nuts. How about that for a greatest modification to our cars ever ! | |||
| Paul Yorke Prolific User Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 205 Registered: 6-2006 |
David, I wasn't suggesting that anybody should buy copper. Just observations really. Mainly replying to Pat L's comment "David, did not know anywhere that could sell plain copper for brake pipes. What regulated authorities allow this?" I'm not convinced that it would be possible to remove any surface damage etc. Even using CuNi I'd recommend throwing away damaged pipes or wrongly bent pipes away and starting again. RT: what ?? | |||
| Neville Davies Experienced User Username: nev_davies Post Number: 15 Registered: 9-2006 |
Saturday I rang the three main motor factors in the local city,all made pipes to measure two could only make up plain copper one would make either copper or cunifer,four MOT testers/repairers that would supply pipes would only make in copper it seems when the time comes I will have to make my own. Nev | |||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 786 Registered: 9-2004 |
Hi Nev,Just updated myself it seems. Re Audi conventinal brakes 03 model ,today did a test on the braking pressure with the scanner,resalt 158 bar. Copper pipe max pressure 127bar[1841lbs] Copper pipe for this type of application is a no go! I have obtained a roll of copper tubing and will make up some of the formed varrious types of flared ends and do some checks. Three types of forming tools to try. I cannot see how the soft copper formed op1 op2 flare would not give and leak when the connection are tightened up. I would never use this type on any more modern cars including the Shadow Spirit type of systems. The spec is BS EN 12449 seamless 22 gauge. Safe working pressure of 127 bar may be down to the seamless type of pipe! IMO the cunifer is the best all round choice with the max 3100lb working pressure. Bill C so yes you are correct as you can get brake copper tubing BS EN 12449 and from regulated authorities now confirmed. Sorry for any confusion. | |||
| Neville Davies Experienced User Username: nev_davies Post Number: 16 Registered: 9-2006 |
Patrick.Interesting result with the Audi. I think with all the informed comments about this subject it will have to be cunifer as a minimum for new pipes.What is concerning is the fact that in the UK MOT repairers are using copper as a norm for these repairs to any vehicle even though it's suitability is at least doubtful. Nev | |||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 1429 Registered: 4-2003 |
Could someone please explain what all the fuss is about here ? Why not simply stick to the specified 3/16” bundy tubing and quit this messing around. ? Crewe state that they do not supply spare tubing, although aftermarket outlets do even supply preformed tubes, but Crewe could not be more specifiuc than they are on the correct tubing. Avoid rejection by reputable vehicle test authorities and use BT316-C (ie 3/16" bundy tubing and compliant) as supplied off-the-shelf by PBR for example (see attachment). It even has zinc chromate PVF coating to spoil you. Crewe specifies zinc fully chromate passivated bundy, so why not stick to it ? It is universal, cheap, available, proven, safety approved and easy. Out of curiosity, I asked a Canberra brake specialist today while I was there, and he laughed at the alternatives with that look of ..are you a lunatic.. ? in his eyes. Geez.
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| Paul Yorke Prolific User Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 206 Registered: 6-2006 |
LOL did he now? I think the search is for something that will do the job and last for longer. Waxoyl / rustproofing is still my recommendation, prevention is always better than cure! Steel pipes are hard to work with which is a problem for most people, plus zinc plating is susseptible to damage when making & fitting them them. To fit steel pipes an a car that is not stripped of subframes etc. is almost impossible. | |||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 787 Registered: 9-2004 |
Paul I agree,I would add that some cars with steel pipes only last 5-8 years. RR have been known to have replacments within 8-10 years with the salt from roads when used in the winter. Cunifer pipe that we have replaced have never needed to be replaced again. I would allmost garantee that once replaced they will last the life of the car! Zinc coated pipes still corrode,some Metro pipes did not have any coating around the pipe where the fittings are and would only last 5+years. Fiats steel pipes also had a short life. If a replacment unit was changed the probability of the steel pipe fittings being seized on the pipe with the resulting damage to the pipe then needing replacement. RR cars used in Sweden Switzerland etc in the winter months can turn to rust buckets due to the heavy salt application on the roads. From memory Sweden was one of the first to use conifer back in the early eights. Rust prevention is a must. RT you say: "I asked a Canberra brake specialist today while I was there, and he laughed at the alternatives with that look of ..are you a lunatic.. ? in his eyes" I bet he did if the alternative is just COPPER PIPE in OZ. Expect he thought you were a nutter! | |||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 833 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hi Richard, Welcome home, If you have the opportunity to come through the mid-north coast of NSW during your stay, please message me as I would like to meet up with you. My situation is unchanged from our last contact. With regard to the brake line material; I will stake my reputation on the 90/10 Copper/Nickel being the best available material for brake/hydraulic pipework. This from a steel specialist too!!! Kind regards David | |||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 1430 Registered: 4-2003 |
My dear blokes, Even the attachment in the above posting shows the main "alternatives", and if you read the large print you will see that it is not just plain copper tubing and not for automotive use on brakes. What’s more, copper and copper alloy hydraulic and brake lines are ILLEGAL IN AUSTRALIA for all automotive use unless fitted and approved as original equipment upon manufacture of the vehicle. This afternoon, for fun I have just double-checked with the engineers at the ACT Motor Registry, and they advise that any such passenger vehicle with other than steel bundy lines will be rejected without discussion, and any person or business found responsible for such fitting shall be criminally liable. This confirms the brake specialist who says that they cannot by law use anything else. Please stop any more mad discussion here about alternatives for Australian roads at least. What you fiddle about with in the UK is your own lookout. Good observation by the way: the guy at the brake shop did think I was a nutter for even asking about deviating from the correct bundy tubing. That shop has a licence for the manufacture of brake lines, and hoses, the only one in the ACT, and he stated that he would never fit anything but the regular steel bundy or his licence would be revoked for a start, let alone the safety and liability implications. RT. ps I have never replaced a brake line due to corrosion. I assume that two zeros were left off the life expectancy of steel bundy (5 years indeed ! Pull the other leg !). Even the 20 year old Fiat Ritmo I owned as s student in Switzerland was fine in that department if only that department. Oh, and my 1987 Turbo R in Switzerland must have turned into a rustbucket while I am away I suppose if you are correct, as it was fine at the last roadworthiness test not long ago. It too has its original bundy tubing, and that's in a country where a roadworthiness test actually means something unlike in the UK where the MOT is a joke. pps if you think bundy is hard to work with, then I suggest that you source some bending tools. | |||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 788 Registered: 9-2004 |
RT said "This afternoon, for fun I have just double-checked with the engineers at the ACT Motor Registry, and they advise that any such passenger vehicle with other than steel bundy lines will be rejected without discussion, and any person or business found responsible for such fitting shall be criminally liable". I thought to start with that stainless steel was approved by the OZ regulators. Paul said try fitting formed steel tubeing behind the sub frame, almost impossible! I would say that it is impossible with a preformed steel tube. As RT confirmed by his 21 year old car never needing a corroded pipe replaced, maybe it is just a rust problem in the UK with RR & Bentley and most other cars needing replacment within the cars working life. Corrosion of brake pipes behind the fixing clips is common with the salt. RT in the UK the cars brake lines are changed within the maintence checks when needed or advisorys within the MOT. As for the very efficent MOT system any defects noted but not dangerous are advised. It is then in the owners intrest, hands to get them delt with as soon as poss. If an accident occures through the advisory items item not being repaired then the owner takes full responsibility [liability] Get out for the insurance maybe you say. Also any car that is not standard in the UK must have a report approving the modiefications for the insurance company. PS all advisorys are flagged within the systems database for all authoritive bodys to see! (Message edited by pat lockyer on 21 August 2008) (Message edited by pat lockyer on 21 August 2008) | |||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 835 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hi Richard, Does your definitive statement apply to all vehicles or just to vehicles subject to ADR compliance regulations? I acknowledge brake line replacement as a result of corrosion is rarely needed in Australia however owners of privately imported cars may not be so lucky as was the case with DRH14434 [originally from Yorkshire UK] which had very heavily corroded pipework in all locations exposed to road splash and the rear lines on the trailing arms had been replaced with annealed copper refrigeration tube prior to my father-in-law purchasing the car. Regards David | |||
| Paul Yorke Prolific User Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 207 Registered: 6-2006 |
RT: " I assume that two zeros were left off the life expectancy of steel bundy (5 years indeed ! Pull the other leg !)" So you expect steel bundy tube to last 500 years??? Why the hell would they bother even checking it for corrosion in the mot test?? At that rate, they would be checking windscreens for corrosion before the brake pipes. I've just had to replace some pipes on a 2000 Arnarge due to UK MOT advisory note. . . . . . I'd better tell them that it's OK & will last another 490 years! If you want to stop any "MAD DISCUSSIONS" we ought to start with stopping ANY implications that steel bundy doesn't rust! | |||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 1431 Registered: 4-2003 |
David, Concerning ADR compliance and its relevance to brake lines, you would need confirmation from the road transport authority to be sure. However, if a vehicle was first fitted with treated steel bundy lines, the rules are clear that replacements shall be of steel bundy regardless of vehicle compliance or otherwise provided that the design meets ADR standards in the first place. It musty be noted that there is a great difference between ADR vehicle compliance (eg ADR29b etc) and what is required to register a car in Australia. A non-compliant car built brefore January 1, 1989 may be registered in Australia. However, specific items, mainly safety items, must be compliant with the ADR standards, including seat belts (post-1964), head restraints (post-1970), headlamp dipping profiles, steering wheel position (LHD is all but a no-no) noise levels, braking systems and so on regardles of vehicle compliance. Brake lines are in this category, and if a vehicle has been passed with substitutes for treated steel bundy brake lines it is either lucky or unlucky depending upon how you view luck. In any case, it would require an engineer's certificate to permit its legal registration. That is not an ADR vehicle compliance issue at all, although individual ADR standards do apply. With most devaitions from the manufacturers' as-built designs, it is necessary to obtain an exemption or approval from the engineers at the transport authgorities, as was the case when we fitted motors in old Holdens with very powerful replacements when I was at school. The formal engineer's certificate was a necessity to present at each registration roadworthiness test. The same applied when we fitted disc brake front subframes to the same cars. The subject of ADR vehicle compliance versus roadworthiness approval deserves its own thread. However, on the subject of brake line repair it is a closed issue. As we shall be presenting two Turbo R personal imports later this year for ACT registration, I have done some homework already I assure you. RT. |
