| Author | Message | ||
     Jason Pfeiffer Frequent User Username: jpsnaggs Post Number: 56 Registered: 7-2006 |
Hello all. I am asking this question for a friend who has a 1990 Spur II with 50,000 miles or so She has not had any major issues with the car aside from a new a/c and other minor things however something major has come up recently. She took the car to our local mechanic to fix a mineral oil leak - they tightened some clamps, and all fixed. They also recommended a power wash of the underside. That being done, she picked the car up, and drove home on the interstate at around 70 MPH - upon arriving home, the car was dumping oil - literally dumping. The mechanic sent the flat bed and the car was checked out - no oil leaks - the mechanic drove the car around a bit, no serious leaks other then spotting. The mechanic also stated they thought this may be a rear differential problem. My friend picked her car up, took it home on the interstate, and again, heavy leakage... Lots and lots of leak points, possibly from a blow back while on the interstate. I can post a pic of this as well, literally 30 different leak spots, of oil, significant enough amounts as well - all fresh - from front and back... Well, the mechanic has stated this is problem rear diff issues, that only occur when the car gets heated up.... He also states this is a major job to fix, and since he perfers to work on older cars, has suggested she go to the dealer. That being said, she is not too keen on getting the car completely overhauled, and may not attend to it (aginst my advice). What do you all think? | ||
| Paul Yorke Experienced User Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 38 Registered: 6-2006 |
Can you post the pictures? What colour is the oil? What does it smell like? Diff oil has a very destinctive smell. | ||
| Jason Pfeiffer Frequent User Username: jpsnaggs Post Number: 57 Registered: 7-2006 |
The colour is black - I do not know what it smells like... The pic does not show the depth of the oil, and keep in mind that this car was sitting for about a minute or so. You can also faintly see a few drops under the front bumper, which would have been towards the rear of the car while parked. The mechanic also said this could be a leak from the main oil seal Here is the pic.  (Message edited by jpsnaggs on 22 April 2007) | ||
| Bill Coburn Moderator Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 886 Registered: 4-2003 |
Do we have a communication problem here? Getting diff oil at the front challenges my imagination. 'Dumping' in my book is cupfulls. If it is so much where is it coming from? Pull that sort of volume out of the hydraulics and not only will you see lots of lights but probably hear quite a bit of harp music also. Diffs rarely leak except if the breather has blocked up - an unusual but possible occurence. Here's a punt. The engine breather is choked solid and oil is oozing out the weep holes, the front and rear seals and sundry weak joints on/in the engine. We really should run a book here!!! | ||
| Jason Pfeiffer Frequent User Username: jpsnaggs Post Number: 58 Registered: 7-2006 |
Bill, Thanks for the response - sorry my term are not 100%, still learning as I go. He had also said the main seal. The car did dump when first arrived from the mechanic last week, this occured friday after the car had been at the mechanic the second time. When it did dump, we had oil all over the driveway, and it was running down into the street... The break light (mineral oil break pressure light) came on at the time for some reason as well. We are fairly certain this is engine oil, and not mineral oil. Nonetheless, this still seems like a lot of oil to me after just sitting for a minute or two - but, my car rarely leaks at all. (Message edited by jpsnaggs on 22 April 2007) | ||
| Paul Yorke Experienced User Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 39 Registered: 6-2006 |
Looks like engine oil AND cupfulls from the photo. Has the car been used regularly up until this happened? Did the garage top up the oil while it was there? What is the engine oil level on the dip stick now? Did they steam clean the bottom of the engine and front covers to? If this just started as suddenly as you say, it would be strange for the breather to block suddenly and this occur, I think you would have had some signs before. You could run it with the oil filler cap open and see if there is any excess pressure and the oil leaks stop. If this happened suddenly after a steam clean I would suspect that possibly somebody has got a bit gung ho with cleaning the front engine covers and may have blasted the foam seal away? What happens if the car is left running and standing still? | ||
| Bill Coburn Moderator Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 887 Registered: 4-2003 |
OK I'll settle for engine oil. Reading oil drops on concrete is a bit like reading teacups at a seance but I am guessing that the front end seems to be the worst leak. The worst source of leaking here is the snake-like seal between the upper and lower timing case halves which simply squashes between the two castings. These seals harden and shrink and oil oozes although for the mileage of the car such leaking is a bit premature. Back to my blocked breather. If that is the problem the crankcase pressure particularly at high speed would quickly find exits to relieve itself and the front seal would be a prime culprit! PS with all this oil about she should get the front engine mount checked for rotting. | ||
| Jason Pfeiffer Frequent User Username: jpsnaggs Post Number: 59 Registered: 7-2006 |
This car has always spotted a bit much in my opinion, but yea, most of this just started. The garage did not top anything up at all... I think the cleaning guy went a bit gungho The car is not used as a daily driver, however used several times (3-4) a week. (Message edited by jpsnaggs on 22 April 2007) | ||
| Bill Coburn Moderator Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 888 Registered: 4-2003 |
OK. The mineral oil one I hope is a furphy. It is green and fairly obvious. Paul beat me to the punch with leaving the oil filler cap ajar. That should show up the blocked breather if that is the problem. It's not I suppose a leaking power steering hose - the ones to the cooler right at the front can get awfully crappy. Second inspiration. These cars have an 'external' main oil filter reticulation with those bloody great flexible pipes feeding it. That setup is right at the front of the engine - I wonder??? | ||
| Bill Coburn Moderator Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 889 Registered: 4-2003 |
Paul I am curious. Is it possible to hose out the front crank case seal? | ||
| Bill Coburn Moderator Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 890 Registered: 4-2003 |
Third inspiration. I have had a late Spirit with 45,000K on the clock, arrive literally dripping engine oil from, it turned out, one of the weep holes when the engine was running. Barbarian that I may be, I tapped the holes and put grub screws in them with a bit of Locktite. The car's clock is now over 145,000K and clean as a whistle! | ||
| Paul Yorke Experienced User Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 41 Registered: 6-2006 |
Bill, it's possible to hose out the exposed ends. There is usually an inch prodruding each side which leaves a pretty good target, especially to somebody that doesn't know what it is. ( more so when they harden and shrink ) With a real good try and a high pressure jet you can even damage it between the covers. I'm not a great fan of engine steam cleaning (in the wrong hands especially) - if you haven't already guessed  | ||
| Bill Coburn Moderator Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 891 Registered: 4-2003 |
Interesting. I have never used steam, just a good old Karcher. It is tempting to lop off those seal ends as they do look a little bit how's yer father, but I never have. I have had in the old days three cars lose their front engine mount and put the fan through the header tank on a powerful stop. The rotten mount has always been caused by a crook front seal. Jason Don't you dare not come back with the answer - we are all agog! BBC | ||
| Jason Pfeiffer Frequent User Username: jpsnaggs Post Number: 60 Registered: 7-2006 |
Bill, I will surely report back. My friend is at her wits ens with this car... It is so beautiful, its light oyster, with light mushrooms hydes, and brown piping. Unusual combo, but stunning, almost a magnolia colour. Although it has not had alot of problems, the problems it has had are serious, somewhat odd, and reoccuring.... The driver side window constantly stops, even after being repaired, the driver seat has somehow been welded to the floorboard in such an off way, that you will never be able to remove it - the driver seat motor stopped working - the a/c needed to be replaced - the door locks work when they feel like it... The radio does not work now... On and on... We were talking today, and she is now convinced that the car had once been damaged on the driver side, and fixed on the quiet, hence a clean car fax which she has. At least the problems I have had with mine were cut and dry for the most part... Another problem here in Tucson, most of the area mechanics do not like to work on car past about 1989, making it difficult for her to get work done, and the dealer is in scottsdale, 2 hours away. Oh well... | ||
| Peter Colwell Experienced User Username: peter_colwell Post Number: 47 Registered: 3-2005 |
Weird mysterious problems usually end having a simple logical answer. Not always an expensive one either. I once had a major dealer mechanic advise me that my almost new Rover V8 needed a new front main seal, - at huge expense. Careful examination at home showed that an almost-hidden power steering hose clamp was seeping, with the resultant accumulation ending up at the front of the engine. A srewdriver and ten seconds fixed it. If the car were mine, I would beg, borrow or steal the use of a hoist and have a very careful look and clean any oily areas. Then take the car for a drive and immediately put it on the hoist again. | ||
| Randy Roberson New User Username: randy_r Post Number: 6 Registered: 3-2007 |
Hi, all. It is good to remember that a high-pressure washer can damage tires, especially sidewalls; could it not also have damaged a power steering hose or other similar item, leading to the genie leaving the bottle drop by drop? Just a thought for your consideration. Regards from Randy | ||
| George Sokol Yet to post message Username: cava Post Number: 1 Registered: 1-2006 |
In the aircraft industry, when checking for oil leaks after repairs, they initially wash down the engine till it is nice and clean. They then dust talcum powder over the anticipated leaking area. Run the motor for a predetermined time and then check for evidence of any leakage. The talcum powder shows up any leaks very easily. | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 717 Registered: 9-2004 |
Are we talking jet turbine engines or all types. The Zonda with the Merc power plant WOW! has none yet!It goes quicker than the old brain can think. Has it crank seals like the later RR Bentleys? | ||
| Martin Cutler Frequent User Username: martin_cutler Post Number: 75 Registered: 7-2007 |
Hey Bill, doesn't a Spirit have a hooked bracket on the front engine mount, so that if it does turn to jelly, the fan can't go through the radiator? Has anyone tried ditching the teflon front seal, and replacing it with a standard Viton type seal? What is the advantage of the teflon seal, other than the fact RR can charge a small fortune for one? Cheers Marty | ||
| Bill Coburn Moderator Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 971 Registered: 4-2003 |
Martin/ I think we are at cross purposes here. The hooked mount was used on all engines using 'block' type mounts at the front. The 'hook' only stopped the engine lunging forward during a sudden stop and slicing the radiator core like a Belgium sausage. There was nothing to stop the whole engine lifting up at the front and chopping up the header tank in the event of front mount failure. Sprits use stay bars at the side of the engine at the front I think to prevent lurching and then there were those little shock absorbers spanning the various engine mounts. Some cars have'em and others don't. As to the seal I would be suprised if there is a better material than that supplied. It is a peculiar material very soft and spongy. It has to put up with a lot of abuse from the engine with heat and movement and to be fair they seem to last about 100,000K. I wonder what happened to the menopausing Spirit Jason was reporting on above?? | ||
| Martin Cutler Frequent User Username: martin_cutler Post Number: 76 Registered: 7-2007 |
Hi Bill, The teflon seal I was looking at was very hard, not soft and pliable like a viton seal. The shaft it sat on showed no sign of wear at all, so the teflon must just wear away slowly, (over 100,000 km). The one that came out was quite worn away, not damaged, just worn away. Seals in your holden tend to go hard and that is usually when they fail. Very interesting choice of material, I haven't seen it on any Australian or japanese cars. Always something new to learn! Marty | ||
| Paul Yorke Prolific User Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 166 Registered: 6-2006 |
I think the seals are at cross purposes here now. Sounds like Martin is talking about a front main seal ("shaft it sat on" ) not a front cover seal ?? They don't leak often and certainly not like the foam ones. I guess a worn seal is much better than a worn shaft though (Message edited by paul_yorke on 11 June 2008) |
