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Cliff Biggs
Experienced User
Username: cliffy

Post Number: 81
Registered: 09-2021
Posted on Saturday, 03 December, 2022 - 04:25:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Saw an article/posting months ago on how someone wired in a bypass for all the ignition interrupt relays/switches as a way of getting started and back home incase of a system failure on the road.
I've searched the Tee One listings, tried Google search, tried forums searches but haven't found the article yet

By chance does anyone remember where it was located?

The reason for above is that occasionally when I start up and then a minute or 2 later shut down I can't get a crank for several minutes. So far every time after about 5 mins it will always crank and start, Being that this a sporadic and hard to trouble shoot I want to do a bypass so IF I get a hard failure I can get home and fix it there.

Thanks for any help
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 3324
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Saturday, 03 December, 2022 - 07:11:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I know that Geoff Wootton has posted about this, I believe on both the Australian Forums and rollsroyceforums.com. His is an SY car, but I doubt the principles will be much different at least up until immobilizers become involved.

You might want to reach out to him directly.

Brian
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Mark Aldridge
Frequent User
Username: mark_aldridge

Post Number: 829
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Saturday, 03 December, 2022 - 07:48:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Cliff, does the starter motor try to crank or the solenoid engage with a click or is it completely dead. Is it a Lucas starter on your car or the later geared starter ? Does whether the car faces uphill or downhill make a difference ? I have recently had a similar problem with my Shadow which has the Lucas starter which was used in UK Spirits until approx 1987, when switched off on a steep uphill drive, facing uphill. The solution seems to be to clean the starter solenoid etc and tighten all earth connections to the engine. I hope !
Mark
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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 2320
Registered: 05-2012
Posted on Saturday, 03 December, 2022 - 08:20:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Brian and Cliff

No, it wasn't the ignition I was bypassing, it was the starter motor circuits. It came about when I nearly got stranded 40 miles from home and the starter motor would not turn. At that time I was also getting a clicking starter motor intermittently, so bypassed the whole lot to prevent me from getting stranded. It's a dangerous setup so I will be removing it if I ever the sell the car.

sw
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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 2321
Registered: 05-2012
Posted on Saturday, 03 December, 2022 - 08:36:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

On re-reading Cliff's entry I can see now it is the starter motor circuit he is talking about.

I was in the same position with a difficult to find intermittent fault so rigged up my bypass to allow me time to isolate the fault whilst still using the car. From memory I just used a heavy duty wire direct to the starter solenoid, through a toggle switch and a push button switch. The toggle switch isolates the starter button to prevent accidental pushing of the starter button. I also fitted an inline fuse. The reason it's dangerous is you could start the car in D.

I did eventually find the intermittent fault on my car - a previous owner had connected the starter solenoid directly to the switchbox - unbelievable. Now that I've cured the problem I guess I should remove my mod.

Geoff
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Jim Walters
Frequent User
Username: jim_walters

Post Number: 377
Registered: 01-2014
Posted on Saturday, 03 December, 2022 - 10:55:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Cliff, what year Spirit? Basically you just need to take power from a brown wire on the starter relay through a push button to the white wire with red tracer attached to the starter relay. As Geoff says you must be very careful doing this as the shift interlocks will be bypassed and the car could start up and drive away if the gearshift is left in D or R when you press the button. The safest way is to wire in a push button to a small bracket under the dash by the driver, so you would need to be in the driver's seat in control of the car when you use it.

SRH8505 SRC18015 SRE22493 NAC-05370
www.bristolmotors.com
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Cliff Biggs
Experienced User
Username: cliffy

Post Number: 82
Registered: 09-2021
Posted on Saturday, 03 December, 2022 - 14:14:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi guys !
Its an 86 SZ 14618 original starter and I get NO sound of action whatsoever with the key when it dies. I have tried jumping the starter relay (under the bonnet)pins 30 to 87a and the starter will crank but engine doesn't start so I know the starter is good but the interlock circuits have a break somewhere,

From what I see on the wiring diagrams it could be a slow to release microswitch on the shifter or gearbox or a bad relay (I have replaced all 3 relays). Or a bad wire connection Just don't know
It has always "fixed" itself in a few minutes but I want a fail safe back up in case I am miles from home. Where I live it could be 50 miles between cities. I may get a hard failure and then I can really troubleshoot.

I like the idea of a fused line with a safety switch and the push button actuation. I'll be working on that type system.

Just had a friend call me to say he bought an 89 Bentley but when he went to look at it it wouldn't crank, discovered a push button in the cigar lighter location and pushed the button and got it to crank. Looks like a permanent bypass to me on that one.

As some of you may know mine is a unicorn on the wiring diagram unlike anything on either forum (an 86 with K-Jet Lamda injection USA delivery)
Finally found the correct diagram at Alber's in Zionsville IN USA. They kindly made a large copy and shipped it to me for a very reasonable fee.

Tanks for all the info I'm now busy all next week getting this done (I work slowly-what part of retired don't you understand?)
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Cliff Biggs
Experienced User
Username: cliffy

Post Number: 83
Registered: 09-2021
Posted on Saturday, 03 December, 2022 - 14:31:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Need to add more- after thinking about it.
As I mentioned I can jumper the starter relay with the ignition key on and get a crank but NO engine running. Ignition is dead at the same time I assume. Might not solve my issue.

I guess I have to see where a common link is on the starter crank and ignition on.
One spot might be the points in the switch box not making good contact. I'll need to pull the switch box out to check that one.

On second thought I might be able to run a bypass switch around those points and when it happens close that switch and see if it works then !!!
Might not be too big of a job. HMMMM I'd have to use the switch only when the key is in the start position so all the circuits are aligned properly but that wouldn't be a real issue if I put the switch in the correct place.

I have good aircraft switch, wire and connectors. :-) :-)
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Cliff Biggs
Experienced User
Username: cliffy

Post Number: 94
Registered: 09-2021
Posted on Wednesday, 08 March, 2023 - 11:40:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Just to follow up-
In working through the issue I had one bad relay behind the speedometer. Once that as changed it started fine THEN it stopped working again. Turned out this time fuse B3 was blown (10A) changed the fuse and all things worked, Since then B3 has blown 3 times four no apparent reason Drive car to store, come out to go home and fuse has blown. Change fuse and it starts again. Runs good for days until fuse blows again, no other issues visible
I now have extra fuses and an aircraft 10A circuit breaker on leads that I can push in where the fuse is. I'm going to upgrade the fuse to a 20A unit to see if that has any affect. The wiring is large enough to handle 20 amps so I'm not too worried about the fuse upgrade.
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Cliff Biggs
Experienced User
Username: cliffy

Post Number: 96
Registered: 09-2021
Posted on Friday, 24 March, 2023 - 15:34:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Update- Well it happened again on the 10 amp fuse
For no apparent reason it blew when I parked at the store. Checked the fuse visually and it looked god. Checked it with a multimeter and it was blown, these are Littlefuse brand fuses.
This time I used a 20 amp fuse and so far it has not blown again. Don't know whether it is the fuse or the circuit yet.
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Robert J. Sprauer
Frequent User
Username: wraithman

Post Number: 819
Registered: 11-2017
Posted on Friday, 24 March, 2023 - 20:47:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Flirting with danger when upping the amperage rating. The conductors in the circuit design was based on the original rating. You definitely invite the risk of fire when this is done, especially with bundled harnesses. You have an underlying issue that you haven't found yet.
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Jeff Martin
Frequent User
Username: jeff_r_1

Post Number: 479
Registered: 07-2018
Posted on Friday, 24 March, 2023 - 23:53:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Yikes, agree with with Robert.
Cliff, look for a bad ground(s) in the circuit where the fuse(s) keep blowing.
Even bad and oxidized connections like at the back of the fuse panel will cause problems like this.
Go through the circuits with your multi meter and check that the ohms resistance isn't high.
You have to go through the circuits systematically and logically to find the problem eliminating the cause or causes as you go along.
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Robert J. Sprauer
Frequent User
Username: wraithman

Post Number: 820
Registered: 11-2017
Posted on Saturday, 25 March, 2023 - 00:09:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Start with the correct wiring diagram for your car and work from the fuse that blows outward. You WILL find the issue.
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Cliff Biggs
Experienced User
Username: cliffy

Post Number: 97
Registered: 09-2021
Posted on Wednesday, 29 March, 2023 - 16:24:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The reason I feel the 20 amp is OK is because it is an intermittent issue. 10 amp works most of the time. When it fails and I install another 10 amp all is well. I'm also thinking it might be a fuse issue as 4 of the 5 times its happened I see no "blown" fuse. It looks good but under a volt meter there is no continuity through the fuse.
I am actually going to try 15 amp fuses tomorrow as that I know will not endanger the wiring.
I do have a correct wiring diagram.
Thanks more later as the weather gets better to work out in the garage.
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 2556
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Wednesday, 29 March, 2023 - 18:18:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Forget the fuse, temp wire in an old spot light bulb when its bright and stays on testing can commence.
More later maybe!
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Cliff Biggs
Experienced User
Username: cliffy

Post Number: 98
Registered: 09-2021
Posted on Friday, 31 March, 2023 - 00:48:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Wouldn't the lamp bulb just indicate a hard failure?
Right now all I have is a transient failure as once it happens as soon as I replace the fuse the issue is resolved for a while. Works fine for several days. Also, as so many of the failures show no indication visually in the fuse (only by testing the fuse can I tell it is open) I'm left wondering if it is a systematic failure of a run of fuses from the manufacturer.
Now the bulb idea is a unique idea for testing. I would think that it would provide enough resistance in the circuit to keep the amperage low enough so it could remain in the "triggered" position and not burn the wiring.
I've got to think about this one for a moment.
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 2204
Registered: 04-2009
Posted on Thursday, 06 April, 2023 - 20:01:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I have experience with poor quality fuses finding their way into my tool box. I no longer buy new fuses because I have experienced both - fuses that never blow and perfectly good looking fuses that fail intermittently. I now buy my fuses from breakers yards that remove (mostly) factory fitted fuses from cars instead of some of the junk that is sold as "quality" products.
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michael vass
Frequent User
Username: mikebentleyturbo2

Post Number: 783
Registered: 07-2015
Posted on Thursday, 06 April, 2023 - 22:32:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Cliff
Do as Patrick suggested
Mike
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Cliff Biggs
Experienced User
Username: cliffy

Post Number: 99
Registered: 09-2021
Posted on Saturday, 08 April, 2023 - 08:46:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Yes I like what he said
I have put in a 15 amp fuse now to see if the draw blows even that one, the 20 amp never failed.
I have an amp meter that I might rig up to watch the draw also.
Because I've seen so many 10s that check bad but look good I'm almost convinced that it is a bad run of fuses and not an issue in the car.
I'll keep posting here as things develop.

BUT tomorrow is the "Car Show" in the next city over. Lawn chairs are in the "boot".
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Mark Aldridge
Frequent User
Username: mark_aldridge

Post Number: 838
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Saturday, 08 April, 2023 - 19:53:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I have had these rubbish fuses overheat and melt in the holder. A micrometer check on the thickness of the "legs" tells all ! I use "littlefuse" products which are thicker and have not melted the holder yet. An alternative is resetable fuses, which I have put in some circuits.
Mark
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 2560
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Sunday, 09 April, 2023 - 03:27:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Ah! this fits and will finish the job for good!

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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 4186
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Sunday, 09 April, 2023 - 19:06:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Patrick,

I like the audible alarm included to signal a fuse failure.

No chance of not knowing when the fuse fails with the audible warning although I would not be too keen about the secondary warning feature also included.

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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 2561
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Monday, 10 April, 2023 - 19:57:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

David, yes it would be a "Dead End"
Should have been April the 1st!

BTW the Shadow 1 is given a well eared rest from towing.
The C6 is now doing the job with Grandfather rights, with all the electronics thrown in!



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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 4187
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Tuesday, 11 April, 2023 - 08:27:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Patrick,

Despite the fuse board modification not appearing on the 1st April; it is still worth a laugh or two.........

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Cliff Biggs
Experienced User
Username: cliffy

Post Number: 100
Registered: 09-2021
Posted on Thursday, 13 April, 2023 - 14:32:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Have driven 200 miles now with dozens of start/stops and no fuse blows with the 15 amp ones installed. Crossed fingers but I'm still thinking a bad run of Littlefuse 10 amp fuses. May go to the local wrecking yard and pull some 10 amp fuses from wrecks to try them.

BTW the car show went well except I took 3rd place behind a YUGO by 2 points!!!! A YUGO :-(

Admin comment:
A YUGO!!!!!

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Cliff Biggs
Experienced User
Username: cliffy

Post Number: 108
Registered: 09-2021
Posted on Friday, 14 July, 2023 - 13:13:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Yes a YUGO !!!
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 4203
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Friday, 14 July, 2023 - 20:03:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Not THE Yugo???????
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Cliff Biggs
Experienced User
Username: cliffy

Post Number: 109
Registered: 09-2021
Posted on Sunday, 16 July, 2023 - 09:34:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

YES THE highly vaulted "YUGO"
May be the only running example in the world for all I know.

Slap in the face!
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 4204
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Sunday, 16 July, 2023 - 13:08:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Cliff,

At least it might have some value being mercifully "the last of its kind".
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Cliff Biggs
Experienced User
Username: cliffy

Post Number: 110
Registered: 09-2021
Posted on Tuesday, 18 July, 2023 - 13:29:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Should have been given the "Survivor" trophy.
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Cliff Biggs
Experienced User
Username: cliffy

Post Number: 136
Registered: 09-2021
Posted on Saturday, 02 March, 2024 - 14:38:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

A follow up-
I replaced the 15A fuse with an aircraft circuit breaker (10A) and I haven't had it pop yet in several months
I still suspect that I got a batch of bad fuses OR if I could find some Slow Blow 10 amp fuses I'd try them but I haven't seen them in years.

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