Yet to post message
Post Number: 1
|Posted on Friday, 23 November, 2018 - 12:16:
I'm serious thinking of buying a mid 1980 Rolls Royce or Bentley
I usually do things like engine oil and filter changes, spark plug changes, gearbox oil change, differential oil change, brake pad replacements at home on my classics (I've owned Vauxhall Cresta, Jaguar Sovereign, Armstrong Siddeley Sapphire)
Could I do the same sort of maintenance on a Rolls Royce Silver Spirit?
Any advice would be great.
Post Number: 268
|Posted on Friday, 23 November, 2018 - 12:39:
No problem doing the above servicing at home Alan. Bleeding the brakes is a slightly different procedure than most other cars but it's straight forward when you get the hang of it.
Post Number: 2
|Posted on Friday, 23 November, 2018 - 15:09:
That's really good news.
Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Post Number: 1239
|Posted on Friday, 23 November, 2018 - 17:05:
Alan you will not have any problems at all and when you do have a proplem, if you use this forum people from Dubai, UK, USA, Canada and Australia will help you. That is not to mention Switzerland, the Netherlands and France, Gibraltar and the Isle of Man together with Ireland.
The workshop manuals are available from RREC for free down load.
When you go to buy your Rolls Royce there are three actually four rules. 1. Don't believe what a car salesman says, 2. Don't believe what a car salesman says even if it seems true, 3. Don't believe what a car salesman says if he is breathing and 4. Buy the best car you can even if its $10,000 dearer.
Before you buy read every article on this forum in relation to the braking system because the RR braking system is radically different from any other car.
If you really want to be overcautious get a Rolls Royce mechanic to have a look at the car and fill out a report. I don't know what a Sydney Rolls Royce Dealership would charge for an assessment but if you spend a grand, you will dodge of live bullet.
Lastly, get the car up on a hoist and check for any coolant or oil coming out of the bleed holes in the block on each cylinder. If it bleeds then its dying - walk away as that may very well mean a complete engine overhaul which will be very likely more than the price of the entire car.
Welcome to the forum - Enjoy!
Post Number: 3070
|Posted on Friday, 23 November, 2018 - 20:31:
The R-R/B Technical Library will be your next best friend after this forum:
Post Number: 3
|Posted on Tuesday, 04 December, 2018 - 14:02:
Vladimir & David
Thank you very much for your replies.
Perhaps this is not the right question to under under the Spirit Topic but is it true that the Shadow is a much less reliable car than the Spirit?
Christian S. Hansen
Post Number: 1018
|Posted on Tuesday, 04 December, 2018 - 16:02:
The pot calling the kettle black? LOL
Post Number: 4
|Posted on Tuesday, 04 December, 2018 - 17:57:
I really should have said this in my first reply today.
The Rolls Royce Community is fantastic. The comments from Vladimir are heart warming and confirm the feelings of my son and myself after meeting a member of the Rolls Royce Car Club at the All British Day. After being a member of many classic car clubs and attending many events the only real friendliness came from the Rolls Royce fraternity. That's why even if these cars which I've always admired will stretch the budget are the car for me because I'll finally have a real classic with a real feeling I belong to a community.
Many thanks to all of you.
Also Christian can you explain the pot metaphor, are you saying the Shadow is more reliable than the Spirit??????
I'm on a big learning curve.
Post Number: 587
|Posted on Tuesday, 04 December, 2018 - 19:17:
Alan, I have both ! and reliability wise there is not much difference in my experience. The fuel injected SZ series cars are more economical on fuel than the carburettor cars. My Shadow1 which I have owned for 20 years, averages about 14mpg (UK), whereas the injected Bentley8 will do 20MPG+. The Shadow feels older to drive, and the handling characteristics are different but they are both great cars.
Christian S. Hansen
Post Number: 1022
|Posted on Tuesday, 04 December, 2018 - 19:29:
They are both extremely complicated mechanisms.
They were both equally reliable when new.
Neither are new any longer.
Entropy is the natural tendency of things to go from orderly to disorderly.
Mechanical systems tend to fail, sooner or later.
Complicated mechanical systems are even more likely to fail, sooner rather than later. Oxidation and the effects of ozone are scientific facts.
Rubber components get dry and fail by the passage of time, whether or not they are used.
All of this is exacerbated by how a mechanism is used and maintained...or not.
No two Shadows are the same, neither are two Spirits the same.
What I say is that they are both equally reliable and equally unreliable. Some owners are fortunate, others like ?? (I forget his name) with the green Bentley that bankrupted him and sold for a massive loss, are not.
In broad brush strokes, you are well advised to get the best condition initially rather than an example you expect to restore. You want to get immediate gratification by being able to drive and enjoy it before anything happens that will either require your attention or drain your bank account if you cannot do it yourself.
The knowledge and advice from the forum members whose cumulative experience is unequalled in the world is invaluable.
P.S. Excuse that I am obviously opinionated. Just saying.
Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Post Number: 1282
|Posted on Tuesday, 04 December, 2018 - 20:41:
Prices of Spirits and Spurs are crazy low in Australia at the moment but that will not last.
I suggest you go to the Flying Spares site to get acquainted with the price of parts for a start.
Spirits and Spurs are really Shadows with different bodies but from around 1985 and up more electrical things get complicated. Still good cars but more things to get fixed.
Take your time to find a well cared for car in the colour you like. Full top shelf repaints and re upholstery with send you into spasms and your wallet will yelp in fear, pain and loathing but these cars are not Bugattis so with some common sense you can fix them. Specialised tools are available from Kelly in Utah.
Putting your car into the local garage can create all types of dramas and the fact it is a Rolls Royce is always interpreted as you are stinking rich and thus fleecement is mandatory.
You should take time to read the Tee-One topics which are brilliantly and often humour themed.
A Rolls Royce is definitely not a car you park unattended in a dark alley these days as the public is hurting and nasty stupid jealous people will vandalise it for you or at least steal your hubcaps.
Rolls Royce not sell quickly and placing a for sale ad anywhere will have many time wasters phoning you with senseless and cruel offers.
Buy slow and sell slow unless you have loot to burn.
Owning a Rolls Royce can lead to the incurable disease of Rollsaholicy in that after you have one you may find yourself looking at buying a second. It is a bit like swimming an Olympic pool and then attempting to drink the contents.
Be prepared to be asked by many strangers what you paid for the Rolls Royce over and over and over.
Post Number: 2107
|Posted on Tuesday, 04 December, 2018 - 21:10:
It's a bit like asking if somebody on their 50s or 60s are going to less fit than somebody in their 30s or 40s.
Most likely yes....
But depends on how they have been maintained.
A good Shadow will be better than a bad Spirit.
Shadow prices are riding.
Spirit parts, especially used, are plentiful and so often cheaper.
Look at plenty and when you find a likely suspect get it inspected by an RR&B expert.
Good luck with it. :D
Robert J. Sprauer
Post Number: 90
|Posted on Tuesday, 04 December, 2018 - 22:40:
Bottom line here....Try to find a qualified mechanic/service facility that has been around these cars for awhile and have it checked out. The cost to do so is minute compared to the cost to cure major service areas on either model.
Service history is a huge plus. A very low mileage car is not a plus with these models.
Post Number: 2681
|Posted on Wednesday, 05 December, 2018 - 02:11:
Robert J. Sprauer wrote, in part: A very low mileage car is not a plus with these models.
This cannot be emphasized enough. Most of the problems with these cars come not from things wearing out, but from lack of use. The number of things that get sluggish, stuck, etc., are myriad.
This is hardly surprising. Mechanical equipment of any sort tends to stay in its best operating condition when it's actually used. Use generally implies maintenance to allow continued use.
SRH33576 just became better and better as I used her more. Due to circumstances of the last couple of years I'm probably back to square one with her because I have not been able to drive her much at all.
I have yet to see any example of a RR that has what would be considered "high mileage" on any other car of the same age. Many of them have total mileage that indicates that they were, for all practical intents and purposes, what I call "rolling sculpture," never really used at all, just moved out of the garage for show occasionally. These cars tend to be cosmetically spectacular and mechanical basket cases.
With regard to service history I'm a bit of a contrarian. While it's nice to have, anything that predates about the last 5 years is not indicative of much at all. I have a car, LRK37110, that was religiously maintained at a RR dealer by her first owner but that went into a garage and sat for about 5 years after he became ill. By the time I got her that "sitting for 5 years" had taken its toll, and I'm still working, in fits and starts, to try to get her completely roadworthy again. It's recent service history and history of actual driving use that count.
Robert J. Sprauer
Post Number: 91
|Posted on Wednesday, 05 December, 2018 - 02:36:
Good point Brian. Service history that does not include recent inspections or work would not be reliable in the present tense.
Christian S. Hansen
Post Number: 1024
|Posted on Wednesday, 05 December, 2018 - 06:47:
Oddly enough, in my particular case, the most common question is not how much did I pay, or the value, but rather how long I have owned it, as if that either mattered or was the least bit relevant. "People are strange" per "The Doors".
Harking back to your question about "reliability" a.k.a. dependability, I find that a curious question as it depends on your definition which is relative to your expectations. In most cases I suspect that the questioner is thinking in terms of, for instance, a Toyota where you can basically go for 75,000 miles and probably never open the hood. All Rolls-Royce were originally from the factory "rich men's toys" costing the modern equivalent of $300-$400,000. Cost of fuel or ease of maintenance (ergo cost of maintenance) was not even a consideration and if an issue, the buyer could not afford the car anyway. Value and original cost has no bearing on long term reliability. While RR make a very attractive automobile (you will get daily compliments)unless you are a experienced and committed DIY mechanic and prepared to be occasionally (often?) shocked by parts prices even a pretty Shadow/Spirit has been referenced by another author as similar to dating an attractive model type lady who turns out to be a high maintenance crack addict.
All this said however, you MUST own one...TODAY...if not sooner!! There is much truth in what Vladimir says and you need to find out if you will become an addict, or if there is still hope for you...
Get it inspected, but do not be dissuaded if it merely needs $10K of rubber suspension components, $10K of rubber brake line hoses, or $5K of climate control renovations ($8K if the dreaded inner box needs removal).Pass if it needs an engine rebuild.
Post Number: 231
|Posted on Wednesday, 05 December, 2018 - 07:08:
Alan, I drive my 93 Turbo R at least 2-3 times a week. To work and play. Maintenance has been minimal. LOF (lube, oil, filters) I do myself. I did have the fuel pump fail at 91,500 miles, last spring. Cost me a tow and $300. for replacement pump and lines. The brakes were done this summer for $2k including lines and pad kit and rotors. I don't think that's too bad. Any work I have done is at a specialist that knows these cars. Try this. Go to your favorite auto parts store and ask for a headlamp for a (year and model) RR or B. They won't have a listing for one. Even though they use a standard sealed beam headlamp ( here in the USA) the parts stores have no clue. So while some parts are available off the shelf, belonging to this forum can tell you what you need. That's why you really need someone to look the car over. Someone that knows these cars. Don't be discouraged. Owning a RR/B is a true joy. I'm on my second, so far...
Post Number: 2108
|Posted on Wednesday, 05 December, 2018 - 07:49:
If you factor into your equations the cost of getting another make car of this quality you are probably looking at spending 40k plus for a 2 year old merc,BMW,Jaguar,or similar vehicle.
Now add in the depreciation of a vehicle like that and compare it to 4 or 5 k of work done on the RRorB in a few years . . . . It soon makes owning a RR very palatable indeed.
Plus parking it next to a 60k Merc or BMW you will draw in somebody interested in knowing how long you've owned it and who will not believe you can get 5 RRs for the price on the BMW.
Find the right car.
Find the right mechanic.
Get the car inspected.
Service it regularly.
Keep it inside.
The smiles are worth it :D
Post Number: 5
|Posted on Wednesday, 05 December, 2018 - 09:11:
Thanks to all of you for all your comments and the information.
I definitely do not expect modern car like reliability but I had a 1984 Jaguar Sovereign and it was not exactly reliable. It always needed something, master brake cylinder, universal joints, interior light switch on door which was draining the battery because it was conducting to car body, starter motor, hand brake ratchet assembly, cool bottle, etc.....
So if a Rolls Royce / Bentley can beat that I'll be happy.
$2000 for a brake system overhaul seems quite reasonable, so does $300 for a fuel pump.
Is there any real difference in fuel consumption between a Spirit and a Shadow?
Are there mechanics in Sydney that any one would recommend (I live in the Blue Mountains)?
Christian S. Hansen
Post Number: 1028
|Posted on Wednesday, 05 December, 2018 - 09:29:
Paul is correct about the smiles. I once had a gent driving a brand new $80K Mercedes actually follow me home to declare "That is a beautiful car!" and it was simply a $12K triple black everflex roofed Silver Spur (that I couldn't get $10K for today)!!
Post Number: 2682
|Posted on Wednesday, 05 December, 2018 - 15:37:
I will just offer that SRH33576 was (and is) far from a "superior example of the marque." I have driven her from Virginia to Utah and back and she could be relied upon to start and move until I had a distributor failure. After that was fixed, she could have her battery hooked up, the key turned, and she'd fire right up (at least if I waited until I heard the SU fuel pump stop ticking, indicating the carb float bowls had been filled).
They seem to be significantly more reliable than I might have expected, and definitely more reliable than a number of British marques, Jaguar among them (at least until the takeover by Ford, which marked a tectonic shift in reliability). I had a 1999 XJ8L that was an incredibly reliable car.
I cannot count the number of smiles and chats that came at random times, particularly when stopping at the gas station.
These are not "low maintenance" cars, but my experience has been that the more they're actually used the fewer "unscheduled, weird fixes" they require. Keeping them rolling along happily is often much easier than getting them there in the first place if you buy one in need of maintenance. I've done that, twice.
Post Number: 29
|Posted on Monday, 31 December, 2018 - 21:11:
Regular use is the key as Brian pointed out.Always beware the low mileage Shadow even more so than Spirit .My dad drove his 72 Shadow every day for business for 32 years doing 385000 miles with very little trouble.
Post Number: 30
|Posted on Monday, 31 December, 2018 - 21:17:
I serviced it every 5000 miles with new Crossland filter 343 which we cant buy now and Valvoline 20w50 XLD. Plugs Champion N16YC and Aust Chrysler 1970 V8 points. Bendix DB625 brake pads front same as Cortina early Holden and DB549 rear pads from a 240 Volvo.