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richard george yeaman
Grand Master
Username: richyrich

Post Number: 686
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Sunday, 22 January, 2017 - 00:26:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi All need some help with the removal of the Ignition switch which has stopped working, do I have to take the top roll of and if so how does one proceed, Thank you in advance.

Richard.
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richard george yeaman
Grand Master
Username: richyrich

Post Number: 687
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Sunday, 22 January, 2017 - 22:12:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi while I have been digging around looking for a replacement switch new or otherwise I found that flying spares don't offer any after 30000 instead they have a part called a coupling ignition switch UD72522 priced at 8.20 plus p&p, they say that all cars after 1990 should have one in their glove box as they are prone to failure, That in itself is a big statement having said all that I hope that this is all that is wrong with it, I shall order two on Monday morning.

Richard.
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richard george yeaman
Grand Master
Username: richyrich

Post Number: 688
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Monday, 23 January, 2017 - 00:36:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi when I insert the key and turn it on nothing happens, if I leave the key in and open the door the green key symbol comes on the dash and a buzzer sounds.

Richard.
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Paul Yorke
Grand Master
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 1712
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Monday, 23 January, 2017 - 01:09:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Richard,

Sounds like it could be the coupling.

No need to take the top roll off, but you will need to take the knee roll off.

Pull out the split pins and carefully catch the springs etc.

Pull out and downwards and the whole unit will come out then.
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richard george yeaman
Grand Master
Username: richyrich

Post Number: 689
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Monday, 23 January, 2017 - 02:16:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Paul thank you for the information, pity you are not just down the road from me !!!

Richard.
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 1004
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Monday, 23 January, 2017 - 02:44:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Paul - what coupling do you mean?
Thanks
Omar
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 1005
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Monday, 23 January, 2017 - 05:22:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

My 96 Continental R shows a similar problem but slightly different. The ignition switch does everything it is expected to - but when you choose to start the engine the starter does not engage. The relay clicks in the glove-box area but that's all. After the 20th or 30th attempt it starts. Sometimes disconnecting the battery and reconnecting it does the trick. I replaced the battery thinking it was dying - but no the old battery was good and the new one also throws out the same problem.
Is it the switch or the relay or ECU?
Puzzling!!!
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 1006
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Monday, 23 January, 2017 - 06:04:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Dear Richard,
I have just come in form taking the switch assembly out of my parts car. It is a 91 Turbo R.
The switch assembly is held in place by 4 spring loaded pins that are secured using split pins.
They come off like all the small toys you took apart when you were 6 (springs flying everywhere and little control if you have not been warned).
The biggest warning is to note that the plastic assembly has 4 ears that these pins go through to secure the installation.
Two of those had already broken when i got to it due to plastic degredation. Maybe your cars are not prone to UV attack like ours are. That plastic was pretty brittle.

The switch disassembles easily once on the bench.

Behind the lock barrel (which comes off really easily - only 2 screws) that magic coupling can be seen.
The one on my scrap car looked ok.

Good luck with your switch disassembly - beware the springs and the deteriorated plastic.

Omar
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richard george yeaman
Grand Master
Username: richyrich

Post Number: 690
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Monday, 23 January, 2017 - 07:48:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Omar thanks for the info.

Richard.
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Mark Aldridge
Grand Master
Username: mark_aldridge

Post Number: 391
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Monday, 23 January, 2017 - 08:04:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Omar, could be the starter motor ? Just put a reconditioned one on the 1983 Mulsanne . Although this is the old type Lucas starter , the symptoms were the same .
Mark
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 2386
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Monday, 23 January, 2017 - 09:06:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Mark,

+1 from me.

Probable cause worn bearings allowing the armature to "pole" on the stator.
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Paul Yorke
Grand Master
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 1717
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Tuesday, 24 January, 2017 - 08:50:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Richard and Omar,

I would be tempted to run a wire from the starter relay, into the car to a test lamp.

You will then see if the relay is asking the starter to turn or not. Even better two wires, one to the starter relay signal wire, one to the starter motor signal wire.

You could also try swapping over the starter relay.

Can you hear the starter relay and the starter inhibit relay clicking when turning the key to crank?

Intermittent faults are a RPITA. :-(
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 1010
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Tuesday, 24 January, 2017 - 15:58:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Great advice Paul and thanks for that.
I will do just as you say.
The good news (perhaps its bad news) is that the fault is happening a hell of a lot more now. It is almost 80% failure rate, so being able to identify the problem will be easier.
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Paul Yorke
Grand Master
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 1718
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Tuesday, 24 January, 2017 - 18:02:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I forgot to mention that I've had that problem on a couple of late sz cars and it's been the alarm unit :-(
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David Towers
Frequent User
Username: xtriple

Post Number: 89
Registered: 6-2010
Posted on Tuesday, 24 January, 2017 - 20:12:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

As Paul said, I have also had this fault which after MUCH faffing about was found to be the alarm/immobiliser ECU. It's another one with memory retention batteries that leak...
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 1011
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Tuesday, 24 January, 2017 - 21:55:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

How can i disable it Paul?
I dont have the factory remote control.
Thanks
Omar
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richard george yeaman
Grand Master
Username: richyrich

Post Number: 691
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Tuesday, 24 January, 2017 - 22:29:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I don't even know where the little blighter is.

Richard.
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michael vass
Prolific User
Username: mikebentleyturbo2

Post Number: 266
Registered: 7-2015
Posted on Tuesday, 24 January, 2017 - 22:33:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi All
The alarm C/L ECU is under the top roll pig to get to, but repairable if got to in time, like the seat ECUs.
Hope that helps
Mike
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Paul Yorke
Grand Master
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 1721
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Tuesday, 24 January, 2017 - 22:42:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Do the checks with the test light first, in case it is a relay or the starter / connectors, or something completely different etc.

Unfortunately the Alarm ECU does quite a few things, cdl , lights, etc so doing without it is not an option.

I'll check on your chassis numbers. Repair or service exchange,(but you will still not have remotes and they are 100 each), or a modified one which comes with two after-market remotes works out cheaper(chassis number dependant).

But as I said, do some more checks first. :-)
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David Towers
Frequent User
Username: xtriple

Post Number: 90
Registered: 6-2010
Posted on Tuesday, 24 January, 2017 - 23:17:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The replacement/aftermarket ones FS sell don't fit the late cars, I tried.

Mine cost 400 to have repaired, there were many things wrong with it!
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 1012
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Wednesday, 25 January, 2017 - 01:31:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Dear Paul,
How much for the aftermarket version with 2 remotes (ball park)?
TCX53140
Thanks
Omar
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 1016
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Saturday, 28 January, 2017 - 04:33:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Great news- no need for an alarm unit. The culprit was a relay. Replaced it and we are back on the road again.
Omar
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Paul Yorke
Grand Master
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 1726
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Saturday, 28 January, 2017 - 04:49:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Great news Omar, and much cheaper than the after market alarm at 500 :-) :-)

It's still worth checking/changing the batteries in your alarm unit as an insurance though.

If you find you can't live without remote central locking, an after market remote unit is available with two remotes. About 200 I think.
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 1017
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Saturday, 28 January, 2017 - 05:00:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Dear Paul,
I have retrofitted a remote control system on both the blue Azure and the Continental R. I have remote locking access for both these cars now. The black Azure has its factory remote but I have piggy backed an aftermarket remote control system to make sure I have a back up in case I lose the factory remote.
Thanks for your support.
Omar
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Christian S. Hansen
Grand Master
Username: enquiring_mind

Post Number: 500
Registered: 4-2015
Posted on Saturday, 28 January, 2017 - 07:57:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Omar...
Which relay? Since it was a starter related problem, the starter relay would be the first suspected culprit, or was it some other non-related, but somehow interconnected relay that was causing the "gremlin"?
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 1018
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Saturday, 28 January, 2017 - 15:06:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Dear Christian,
It was the starter relay under the glove box. The little grey one. I changed it and we were good to go.
Thanks
Omar
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richard george yeaman
Grand Master
Username: richyrich

Post Number: 695
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Sunday, 29 January, 2017 - 04:47:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

hi all Ignition switch coupler fitted, works a treat, pity it is made from a crappy bit of plastic, bought two, one as a spare as they are prone to fail, Just have to fit the trim and job done.
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Paul Yorke
Grand Master
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 1727
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Sunday, 29 January, 2017 - 06:27:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Good job Richard :-) A Fiddle . . .but not too painful :-)
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 1023
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Wednesday, 01 February, 2017 - 02:53:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

oooops...............
I spoke too soon............
the car failed to proceed again...
It wasnt the grey relay inside the glove box area after all.....
I am now looking at the main starter relay and the start inhibit relay near the suspension tower. I am sure it is one of those.....
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richard george yeaman
Grand Master
Username: richyrich

Post Number: 696
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Wednesday, 01 February, 2017 - 03:14:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Omar what exactly happens when you turn the key, does the dash light up and the systems check sign come on, then you turn the key to engage the starter position what happens at this stage?

Richard.
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 1024
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Wednesday, 01 February, 2017 - 04:28:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

OK Here it is then.
when I want to start the car everything works perfectly but the starter does not engage. As if it is being told not to start the car. If I supply a 12v positive connection to the white wire on the main starter relay near the suspension tower, the car fires up and is good to go. Whilst I have a 12v supply on this white wire the starter engages and then naturally the car fires up and all is ok until I stop the engine by turning the ignition switch off. If I then wish to restart - the same failure happens again until I reapply the 12v to the white wire and then off she goes again.

That white wire i expect should get energised from somewhere else. I need to see where and then figure out why.
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 1027
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Thursday, 02 February, 2017 - 01:54:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I now need to look at the neutral and park switches to ensure they do what they are supposed to do.
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richard george yeaman
Grand Master
Username: richyrich

Post Number: 697
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Thursday, 02 February, 2017 - 04:29:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Omar sounds like a real pain in the butt, Wish I could be of some help to you but I am useless at electrics, Hope things get sorted.

Richard.
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 1028
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Thursday, 02 February, 2017 - 04:37:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thanks Mate.
I am just as crap at electrics but i will give it a go and see what comes out of it.
It will have to be something simple.
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Paul Yorke
Grand Master
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 1731
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Thursday, 02 February, 2017 - 13:32:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Omar , you may find that there may still be a problem near the relay you changed. If it worked OK after working in that area but then went back to faulty state after a drive. .

Possibly a connector loose in the relay holder or adjacent relay holders?

The lead to the gearbox goes out through the left hand transmission tunnel. There should be connector blocks above there to test inputs and outputs to the gearbox actuator.

Good luck with it :-)
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 1031
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Friday, 03 February, 2017 - 05:42:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thanks Paul.
I am having a go at it again tomorrow if it stops raining. Most unusual for us to have rain.
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michael vass
Prolific User
Username: mikebentleyturbo2

Post Number: 279
Registered: 7-2015
Posted on Sunday, 05 February, 2017 - 03:37:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Omar
I'm passing through Dubai on Tuesday wish I could pop round and help!
Sounds more and more like the alarm C/L ECU to me.
See if you can get the leaking battery out, it gunges up the relay contact in the immobiliser.
I fitted one like this and it works great!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Universal-Car-Security-Alarm-Protection-Anti-theft-System-2-Remote-Control-N7T5-/311701687726?hash=item4892de4dae
Hope that helps
Mike
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 1052
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Sunday, 05 February, 2017 - 03:56:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Dear Michael,
It would be lovely to have drink or meal together if you stop over in Dubai.

You were right mate - it was the damn alarm.
To get that out of the car was so daunting that i just ran a signal from the gear lever straight to an empty connector conveniently located beside the starter relay inside the car and now the starter relay does not need a signal from the alarm to make the engine crank.

We don't need alarms in Dubai as very very few cars are ever stolen. It is never worth anyone's while to steal cars as they are always caught. Consequently very few cars get stolen -great recipe really. I rarely lock my cars.

An alarm is therefore a nuisance for us here.
Thanks
Omar
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 1053
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Sunday, 05 February, 2017 - 03:58:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

If anyone wants one or two of these units for free - all you need to do is give me a small loom that connects to the existing connector and you can have the ones out of my two 96 model cars.
I would sooner have them in the bin that put up with the failures they generate.

Omar
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michael vass
Prolific User
Username: mikebentleyturbo2

Post Number: 280
Registered: 7-2015
Posted on Sunday, 05 February, 2017 - 05:25:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Dear Omar
Many thanks for the offer but I'm only on the ground for 90mins lol
Glad I was right (gloat, smug lol)
I agree ,best in the bin ,why do manufactures fit things to cause problems?
The unit i fitted is really convenient with remote C/L but I didn't wire in the immobilser.
I'll wave as I fly over at 2am lol
Best wishes
Mike

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