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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 542
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Wednesday, 16 March, 2016 - 05:31:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Dear All,
I have been advised that the 8 coils on 1997 model year cars can fail, and that their failures are often intermittent.
My check-engine light sometimes comes on and then with time it goes away. I do sometimes feel the odd misfire, so I am fairly sure I must have a dud coil or two.
How can I assure myself that I have indeed identified a failing/failed coil correctly?
Thanks
Omar
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Paul Yorke
Grand Master
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 1475
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Wednesday, 16 March, 2016 - 05:44:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Omar, the only way is to use diagnostics which should bring up a fault code for individual coil faults.

Has the car had new plugs fitted?

Keep the fuel tank above a 1/4 as well.

Intermittent faults are always a pain in the. . .

Good luck with her, Paul.
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 543
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Wednesday, 16 March, 2016 - 14:26:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thanks Paul.
I will plug in my OBD reader and report back.
I will invest in a set of plugs too - even though mine should be ok.
Will any plug do or is there a specific brand/type that should be avoided?
Thanks
Omar
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Paul Yorke
Grand Master
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 1477
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Wednesday, 16 March, 2016 - 18:10:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Omar,

NGK always

BKR4EVX I think. . . or the iridium equivalent. IX on the end???

If a cylinder comes up on the diagnostic I would swap the coil to another cylinder and see if the fault moves with it. If it doesn't then swap the lead to another cylinder and check again.

A pain reaching them though compared to earlier cars :-(
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 544
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Wednesday, 16 March, 2016 - 19:34:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thanks Paul.
our local distributor does not have the BKR4EVX plugs. He says that the BKR5EIX is recommended.
Do you know if he is right or is he simply trying to sell me any old rubbish?
thanks
Omar
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Paul Yorke
Grand Master
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 1479
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Wednesday, 16 March, 2016 - 19:50:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Omar,

They are good plugs but slightly hotter running.

I think 5 used to be specified but they went to 4s.

(Or maybe they used to be 4s and went to 5s. But I don't think so car cars used to be 5s )

Sorry. Out and about atm so I'm happy to be corrected.

5s will work. Did he have iridium?

They come in 4s not 10s so he should be able to order 8. ?
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 545
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Wednesday, 16 March, 2016 - 22:28:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Yes. The IX at the end denotes Iridium.
ok then I shall buy a set of 8 of those and fit them.
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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 1102
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Thursday, 17 March, 2016 - 02:01:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Paul

I've noted from your previous postings you recommend NGK plugs. I have fitted them to my Shadow. Is this just a personal preference on your part, or are NGK plugs demonstrably better than plugs from other manufacturers. How would you rate Champion plugs for instance?

Geoff
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Paul Yorke
Grand Master
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 1481
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Thursday, 17 March, 2016 - 02:31:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Geoff.

Both. It's a personal preference BECAUSE they are far better than any plug I've tried.

I only know RR&B cars so perhaps others may know different for other marques.

When we were fitting Champions (20 odd years ago)there was often a faulty new plug in a set. Russian roulett - especially when trying to diagnose a misfire :-( :-( as you can imagine.

We used to change Champion plugs every year regardless of mileage and we'd still get clients with a misfire between services.

I've had a few cars come in misfires and rough running and found new ish Champions in them.

Bosch also seem to clog up on Shadows.

The platinum plugs are great for Shadows that soot or oil their plugs up.
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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 1103
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Thursday, 17 March, 2016 - 02:45:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Paul

Many thanks for the info.

Geoff
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Mark Aldridge
Prolific User
Username: mark_aldridge

Post Number: 284
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Thursday, 17 March, 2016 - 06:55:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Like Paul, I have had great success with NGK platinum and iridium plugs in my Crewe cars, and also in my MG's. My S1 had a tendency to foul plugs if shunted about, but since fitting NGK BPR5EVX platinums, no problems. I checked them after 6 k miles and found no sign of petrol or oil fouling ( Car does approx. 120 miles per pint oil).Likewise, the Shadow idle is smooth with BPR5EIX, which is more than could be said for NGK BPR5E or Champions. The fine wire platinum and iridium plugs are far more resistant to fouling and self clean.
My son fitted Bosch Double Platinums ( bought on special offer from the USA about 2 each!) to his 1982 Spirit, which had a huge appetite for oil with success and I kept the car after him for 2 years and 25K miles without having to change them, only cleaning them a couple of times.He also has them in his classic Merc, Porsche 924 and other 1970's BMC cars , with success.
Mark
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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 1104
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Thursday, 17 March, 2016 - 07:52:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Mark

I changed to NGK a while ago, but in view of what you say about the Shadow idle I will upgrade to the iridium plugs. The idle on my car is good, but every little helps with these carbureted engines. Thanks for sharing the info.

Geoff
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Mark Aldridge
Prolific User
Username: mark_aldridge

Post Number: 285
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Thursday, 17 March, 2016 - 10:44:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Geoff, I also run my Shadow 1(1975), with the vacuum supply to the hot air blender on the airfilter blanked off in summer, as I find this gives a better hot idle in traffic.
The following Ebay item may be of interest particularly to UK members http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/401087839990
Mark
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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 1105
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Thursday, 17 March, 2016 - 12:53:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Mark

My car is a 74 model (SRX18501) and does not have the hot air blender operated by a vacuum supply. In the earlier cars you can have any temperature you want, as long as it's hot. I long ago removed the part of the air intake that sits over the exhaust manifold, since I live in a hot climate. The car runs much better with the resultant cooler air.

The spark plugs you point to on ebay are a great deal for UK owners. Problem here in the US is by the time you have converted to dollars, added the postal and visa charges you are looking at $5. They retail here at our local factor for $7, so it's easier to just pay the extra 16 bucks (for 8). It's always a problem here and I do envy the lower prices in the UK. However, we are compensated by petrol at 33p per litre

Geoff
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Paul Yorke
Grand Master
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 1482
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Thursday, 17 March, 2016 - 19:57:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

ps fitting BKR4s or BPR4s instead of 5s will help prevent clogging plugs (they stay hotter).

BPR has the bigger hex size. The BKR are smaller but otherwise identical. The smaller hex gives you a little more room around the plug and socket.

Always start the plugs by hand. They should screw all the way in by hand. Never start with a socket and bar.

They will gapped up for electronic ignition cars so if you have points, re-gap smaller.
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Mark Aldridge
Prolific User
Username: mark_aldridge

Post Number: 286
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Thursday, 17 March, 2016 - 20:08:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Geoff, these plugs are very cheap, normally 6 plus in the UK. Usually it is cheaper to do a bulk order from Rock Auto in the USA even with duty and postage.
Mark
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michael vass
Prolific User
Username: mikebentleyturbo2

Post Number: 103
Registered: 7-2015
Posted on Friday, 18 March, 2016 - 00:10:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi all
When I got my car it had 4's fitted which I believe are for non injection car's. I have now fitted 5's.
So if anyone wants to buy some cheap 4's I have a used set
Cheers
Mike
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Mark Aldridge
Prolific User
Username: mark_aldridge

Post Number: 287
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Friday, 18 March, 2016 - 00:56:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Mike, originally the 4 was for injected cars and 5 for carbs, but a TSD from Crewe recommended 4 for all cars. Ngk seem to have delisted BPR4eix and now only appear to list BKR4EIX.However I have used 5 in injected and carb cars with no problems.
Mark
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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 1106
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Friday, 18 March, 2016 - 01:06:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

What is the best method for re-gapping spark plugs. To reduce the gap I have always tapped the outer electrode on a piece of wood. To increase it I use a circular feeler gauge with a gapping hole to prize the outer electrode away from the inner.

I am not sure this is best practice.

Geoff
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 549
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Friday, 18 March, 2016 - 01:12:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

This thread has become a fantastic set of contributions regarding spark plug details. I feel it would be most appropriate to rename the title to reflect the the subject matter better. I don't mind losing the first part of the thread as my concerns have been addressed.
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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 1107
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Friday, 18 March, 2016 - 02:03:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Omar

I totally agree. It's great when so much good information drops out. A big thank you to Paul and Mark.

Geoff
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michael vass
Prolific User
Username: mikebentleyturbo2

Post Number: 105
Registered: 7-2015
Posted on Friday, 18 March, 2016 - 02:26:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi mark
I think what causes confusion is NGK using a lower number for a hotter plug .
Cheers
Mike
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Mark Aldridge
Prolific User
Username: mark_aldridge

Post Number: 288
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Friday, 18 March, 2016 - 03:16:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Mike, yes, opposite to Champion and Bosch !
Mark
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 1943
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Friday, 18 March, 2016 - 07:21:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Omar,

Have changed thread title to reflect content as requested.

I think this covers the entire thread content adequately.

Regards David
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 550
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Friday, 18 March, 2016 - 16:27:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Well done David.
Thanks
Omar
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David Towers
Experienced User
Username: xtriple

Post Number: 27
Registered: 6-2010
Posted on Sunday, 10 April, 2016 - 04:16:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I changed mine a couple of weeks ago. The recommended plug for my (turbocharged) car is BKR5EVX so that is what she got. The old ones were 4s which as far as I understand it, is for non turbo cars?

Speaking of plug changes, has any one else found that the front and rear plugs on the passenger side are an absolute pig to get at? The bac one was awkward (pipes and wires and things in the way) but the front one, dear God, no way to even see the plug and with two UJs and a short and long extension inbetween, getting the plug back into its home was 'problematic'!
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Paul Yorke
Grand Master
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 1506
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Sunday, 10 April, 2016 - 08:26:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Whatever the year, there always seems to be a few of the plugs that are pigs ;)

All the v8 cars went over to 4s so she did have the correct ones in. In practice they are pretty close so it's not imperative.

4s are better if running around town and just doing short runs.
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 1969
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Sunday, 10 April, 2016 - 08:34:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

David,

A useful piece of advice posted on this forum in the past [I cannot remember who provided this information] was to hold the plug in the end of a length of garden hose and use this to guide the plug into the head and start the thread.

If there is cross-threading, this will be felt immediately through the hose and the hose should slip around the plug before any thread damage occurs.

Once the thread is properly engaged, conventional tools can be used to torque the plug [yes torque not tighten by feel - worth getting used to to minimise the possibility of damaging alloy cylinder heads on other vehicles].

A useful tool for the frustrating plugs is a set of "wobble" socket extension bars as these are often more useful than universal joints as the "wobble" joints are much better at staying "in line" during rotation. I purchased a set of 1/4in/3/8in/1/2in "wobble" drive extensions from Repco around 1993 when DRH14434 joined the family and they have since proved to be the proverbial "worth their weight in gold".
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michael vass
Prolific User
Username: mikebentleyturbo2

Post Number: 132
Registered: 7-2015
Posted on Monday, 11 April, 2016 - 00:20:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi David
I too changed my 4's to 5's ,I prefer the right plug although I know there's little difference.
I unbolted the pas reservoir for access to B1 plug.
Incidentally I think the hotter plugs'4's" are for carburettor cars.
If you think that's a pain of a job don't even attempt changing your receiver/dryer.
Cheers
Mike
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David Towers
Experienced User
Username: xtriple

Post Number: 29
Registered: 6-2010
Posted on Monday, 11 April, 2016 - 06:22:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I gained access to the Bentley dealer parts site for pre VW cars. I have no idea how I did it but safe to say, I bookmarked it rapidly! In there it even lists BKR5EVX as the correct plugs for my car so I was happy with my choice.

Flying spares want 15 per plug (so 120 for the set plus postage etc) and I have no idea what they supply, they could be (shudders) Champion! I got the whole set of NGKs for 43! A very decent saving.
I have never been keen on any plug apart from NGK as in any set, there is often a duff one.

I do have wobble drives and the extensions also have a limited 'wobble' function in the first of two positions.

I have not done much work on my two (one at a time) cars so far, but as I have now spent over 15000 on repairs, maintenance, and body repairs I fear that I now have to!
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 1971
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Monday, 11 April, 2016 - 08:19:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

David,

Do not be frightened about doing what work you can on your cars - after all they are another mechanical item albeit with some quirks introduced by the way they were designed and manufactured.

if you are concerned about becoming a more active DIY owner, there is help to varying degrees available through this and other forums depending on what you are doing - just do not hesitate to seek advice before starting work rather than after you discover things are not going your way. Sometimes, the advice might be to get a professional to do the work if specialised tools, knowledge and equipment are needed for the job in hand.
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David Towers
Experienced User
Username: xtriple

Post Number: 32
Registered: 6-2010
Posted on Tuesday, 12 April, 2016 - 09:09:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thank you David. A few years ago I would have attempted anything on the car without a second though and would have thoroughly enjoyed 'playing' with her. Unfortunately, I have degenerative spinal condition that, while not ruling out any activity, does mean that I will be in severe pain in minutes and I have zero strength if a fastener is tight.

I still enjoy doing what I can, but even washing and drying the car (which I do enjoy doing) reduces me to a crumpled mess, requiring a lay down for several hours!

That is one reason why the car had all the major chores done at the specialists, if it had been left to me alone, I would be part way through the first job by now. I want to use the old girl rather than just look at her! :-)

I love this forum, the depth of knowledge about these cars available through posters such as yourself, is simply staggering.

Many thanks and keep it up!
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richard george yeaman
Grand Master
Username: richyrich

Post Number: 485
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Tuesday, 12 April, 2016 - 18:34:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi David I have a similar complaint to you with my back just over a year ago I bought a second hand coin operated massage chair which I use almost every day to relieve pain and tension it might be something that you might consider, The commercial chairs are a lot more robust than the ones bought for home use I just thought I would mention this in case it might be something that might help.

Richard.
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David Towers
Experienced User
Username: xtriple

Post Number: 33
Registered: 6-2010
Posted on Tuesday, 12 April, 2016 - 19:12:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thank you Richard. I shall look into that. Good way of saving as well... for those inevitable repairs on the Bentley
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richard george yeaman
Grand Master
Username: richyrich

Post Number: 526
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Wednesday, 22 June, 2016 - 07:28:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Omar your initial post referring to your coils and the intermittent check engine light coming on and your reference to your OBD reader, Firstly was any of your coils faulty, Secondly the intermittent check engine light what was the cause, Thirdly where would one get an OBD reader that is useable on a 1997 Turbo R.

Richard.
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 700
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Wednesday, 22 June, 2016 - 14:26:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Dear Richard,
I have not changed any of my coils yet as I was also going to change my plugs at the same time. Nobody tells you that the plugs on the 96/97 model cars are not the same as the plugs on the earlier cars - so I ended up buying plugs that physically dont fit. Luckily I can still use these plugs in my Wraith II and my Turbo RL and Continetal. When I buy the new plugs I will then see which coil needs to be replaced.
The check engine light spends more time being off than on to be honest - hence the lack of enthusiasm to get it fixed. Also the car is now on summer vacation. I dont touch my old cars in the summer for fear of roasting them in the heat of Dubai. I use modern cars in the summer months.
Any common run of the mil OBD reader will work. The one I use looks like exactly this one.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/OBD2-II-ELM327-V1-5-Auto-MINI-Bluetooth-WIFI-Diagnostic-Scanner-Tool-for-Car-/201486925169?hash=item2ee98e7d71:g:0yAAAOSwJcZWc3xi&item=201486925169&vxp=mtr

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