| Author | Message | ||
     Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 455 Registered: 4-2003 |
Now I am becoming rather annoyed. It has been suggested to me that the highly-recommended fluid filter I installed in my steering hydraulics induces leaks. The logic is that, because the filter is in the return circuit, it increases the ambient system pressure within the rack and stresses the seals. Next thing someone will tell me that I should never take passengers because the extra stress damages the steering. Let's face it, these racks are simply sub-standard. Anyhow, I shall replace my 15-month-old rack, leaking mildly for the past 12 months, yet again next week. RT. | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Prolific User Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 98 Registered: 9-2004 |
Richard,the only way a filter would block to that degree in the short time is if you were topping up with dirty fluid which of course you would not do. As for debris from a worn pump you would have noises as well to confirm. As for a split gaitor letting in dirt,fluid pressure inside is greater so dirt would not be the issue either. No i believe the fault is the Balancing procedure that i delt with. Good luck with your replacment rack and do try the balancing tecnque,off car first followed by on the car for the fine tune and to confirm hopefully no other faults. | ||
| John Dare Unregistered guest Posted From: 144.138.194.186 |
To be certain of absolutley precise balance may I suggest the use of TWO "ON" car balancing machines; the initial one, THEN the FINE balancer thereafter. (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Robert Chapman Grand Master Username: shadow Post Number: 118 Registered: 5-2003 |
Richard I understand your frustration completely, in these cases where there is an obvious engineers problem to be solved there is always someone who without any real understanding feels qualified to offer ridiculous and non sensencical reasons for cause and effects. And will continue to do so even after their theories have been politely dismissed. | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Prolific User Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 99 Registered: 9-2004 |
Realy,As a real professional but i must agree not in all fields i find your feeble non practical explainations to any topic as a so called professional void of any substance. | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Prolific User Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 100 Registered: 9-2004 |
Robert, Blame someone else or some manufactures along the way but never your defunk proceedures. | ||
| Gordon Norris Experienced User Username: crewes_missile Post Number: 44 Registered: 2-2005 |
It is with some trepidation I dip my toe into this thread after reading all the hot debate here and on related threads, but I have just one contribution: Whilst having my wheels balanced and the Nitrogen topped up in the tyres of my Turbo R some months ago at my local well known national tyre franchise, one of the older guys there walked past while the car was on the hoist and said.."I remember these bastards..make sure you keep the fronts balanced or she'll chew through racks.." and walked away. Didn't have a clue at the time exactly what he meant and didn't bother to pursue it. (When the term "bastard" and my car are conjoined in the same sentence, I tend to defensively switch off and regard the utterer as an idiot, even if he's right!) So maybe Pat's notions have more credit than he's been given. I shall say no more...let the duelling begin...  GN. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 612 Registered: 4-2003 |
No duelling from me, mate. The fact that your fellow had a seven letter word describing the rack life says it all. Also, his wisdom is such that the rack weakness must be widespread common knowledge. Certainly, all the factors mentioned hurry the leaks up. My point is that they should maybe accelerate the leakage from 2,000,000km down to 1,000,000km, but certainly not to the pathetic life spans often seen. RT. | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 356 Registered: 9-2004 |
Gordon,I had forgot all about this topic,hum well what can i say only i wonder if the tyre fitter carried out the balancing on the RR/B with the racks, off car first followed by on the car, a lot of messing about but true dynamic perfection with w/b. This must shorely extend the rack life! Not teaching any one to suck eggs,if the wheels are removed for any reason they must always be returned to the same stud hole fixing on the same hub. | ||
| Gordon Norris Frequent User Username: crewes_missile Post Number: 93 Registered: 2-2005 |
Just noticed the interesting comments in the text accompanying this eBay item, No: 7963072979, suggesting the later racks don't leak...wishful thinking?? It does show how widely the problem is known though.... GN. | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 379 Registered: 9-2004 |
So could it be that most tyres are never balanced correctly in most cases and so the rack was modified to put up with the incorrect dynamic out of balance. Ie maybe a type of internal damper? I know some tyres can terrible to correct. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 658 Registered: 4-2003 |
Gordon, Pat, For sale on Ebay is the rack & kit which I fitted to my car 2 years ago, and Bill C also fitted around the same time to his Silver Spur. The kit comprises the later series rack, adaptor mounting blocks, a new lower steering linkage and all nuts and bolts. The Bentley has a different, stiffer, lower steering linkage from the R-R one shown, and the R-R and B racks are the same apart from the torsion bar in the spool valve. They are no better than the originals, and have no dampers or the like. To claim the later types don't leak is silly. It is the same as the earlier racks apart from the mounts, input spline dimensions and external backlash adjuster. It has the same seal part numbers, repair kit and so on. My first of these later type racks leaked from day 1, although it took 3 months for the centre cavity to fill and overflow. I could notice the fluid level falling slowly from the start. At least the present one has not leaked yet, but it's only about 6 months old. And no: I have absolutely no vibrations anywhere in the car. Below is a drawing of the adaptor mounting blocks in-situ. RT.  | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 380 Registered: 9-2004 |
My SS2 rack from what i can make out by the history is still the original. No leaks! and all in balance every 3000 miles. Is this a record with low mileage. | ||
| Gordon Norris Frequent User Username: crewes_missile Post Number: 97 Registered: 2-2005 |
Pat, What mileage has your car done? Perhaps, just perhaps there is a link here (he says grasping at straws), because my Turbo R (1990 chassis 31130) is low mileage (55,000km =approx 35,000miles) and from the service records still has the original rack (unless replaced by someone outside of the normal servicing, but it doesn't look like it) and (touch wood) NO LEAKS as yet. Perhaps this is one rare example where past lack of use is kinder to these components? Having said that, such low mileage does still tie in with a relative lack of dynamic stresses, including, but not limited to, vibration. On the other hand, I might just be extremely lucky. Undoubtedly, now that I've said all this, I will, in the morning, find a puddle of steering fluid under the car... GN. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 659 Registered: 4-2003 |
Gordon, Service records do not usually show a repair or overhaul. They are normally only shown up in the customer's receipts if there is a charge. Receipts are normally discarded by very wealthy owners and in the cases of company owned cars. The log book is simply stamped and Crewe informed that services have been carried out, but there is never a mention of extra work. Sometimes a customer is not even informed, eg strengthened non-compliant Shadow front crossmembers. Also, it takes about 1/2 litre of internal leakage in a rack before any external signs appear. The earliest indication is the need to put a few ml of fluid in the reservior every month or so. RT. | ||
| Gordon Norris Prolific User Username: crewes_missile Post Number: 101 Registered: 2-2005 |
You are of course right Richard, but I was fortunate with my car in that it has a folder full of receipts detailing what was actually done at each service, as well as the stamped book. I admit it doesn't cover every single service..I think the detailed printouts are absent for 2 or 3 services, but it does look likely it is the original rack. Be interesting to see what Pat's car has done. To be honest, if it is the original rack in my car, I think by all reports it is more "arse than class" ie/ extreme good luck.... ...but the more I talk about it the more I know that puddle of fluid will appear on the floor soon...Murphy's law never fails... GN. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 661 Registered: 4-2003 |
That's encouraging. By the way, to test the rack on a car, especially before purchase, is not difficult. With both front wheels raised and the motor stopped, swing a wheel quickly from lock to lock a few times. If there is an intenal leak of any significance, a bit will squirt out from the vent in the middle behind the takeoff linkage. That is because a wave of internally-leaked fluid will be forced from one side of the cavity to the other, passing by the vent. RT. | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 381 Registered: 9-2004 |
Hi Gordon,My SS2 srh 30712 car has covered 40,046 miles with full service history. As far as i can tell,if the rack has been changed it would have been carried out many years ago by the looks of it. Richard do take this the wrong way,but i have always been taught to never go on a road wheel and swing them from lock to lock onto the stops due to damage within the rack. Somehow i think it was working on a Jupiter,one of the early firsts with a production car fitted with i rack back in 1950! Still applies as far as i know? | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 662 Registered: 4-2003 |
Point taken Pat, I didn't meand to bang the end stops. It's mainly true for unassisted steering that damage can perceivably be done. Power steering has to cope with clots who lean on the steering wheel at full lock, and should be stronger in this regard. I was a bit unclear: don't bang it on the stops of course, but do swing it quickly between the locks. You swing the road wheels and not the steering wheel to get the speed and to know where to stop. When I first presented my car here to the motor registry testers, they did that and sent me packing. That was three racks ago. | ||
| Gordon Norris Prolific User Username: crewes_missile Post Number: 103 Registered: 2-2005 |
I still find it interesting that my car is low mileage for it's age (1990 and 35,000 miles) and Pat's is extremely low mileage (1977-80 and 40,000 miles)and neither of them appear to have had replacements and both are currently leak free, whereas Richard's car, which is a daily driver is eating racks.... ...Richard, try installing a new rack and then NOT using the steering...the Turbo has enough power for you to steer her on the throttle..  GN. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 664 Registered: 4-2003 |
Oh well, My Turbo R has covered almost 300,000km. If mine has had 5 racks, on a km basis you guys should man the air powered wrenches !! Maybe I should lock the steering solid, remove the rack, use the dregs of the remaining fluid to oil the tyres, and power oversteer everywhere. The neighbours may not like it though. More seriously, be aware that most new cars carry a full 60,000km service and warranty (including a first synthetic oil and filter change at 60,000km surprise, surprise!!) included in the sale price. I still think a rack should last the lifetime of the car, but to be fair the one on my BMW was only good for 70,000km. Mind you, at 330,000km, the steering box on our '72 T has never been touched, apart from that dreaded Pitman arm. | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 382 Registered: 9-2004 |
Did i hear pitman arm,mine is modified and no probs less torque, less loading stress more improved fixing loading without spring washer. Still the old arm of course. Richard five racks in 300,000 mine must be on borrowed time,If not there sure is something wrong somewhere. Has the pump pressure been checked is it still the original pump? Do most other cars having racks at this rate. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 665 Registered: 4-2003 |
Pat, Jump to no conclusions. I am prepared to accept that possibly: 1. I am unlucky, or 2. There is a fault, eg my crossmember-to-rack mounts my not be square, and the rack is bowed when tightened down or the like. This could be a common problem on cars with racks ?? I am sure it is not related to driving conditions, wheel balance or anything like that. RT. | ||
| Gordon Norris Prolific User Username: crewes_missile Post Number: 104 Registered: 2-2005 |
Richard and Pat, I don't think there is any doubt the racks have a design fault-the problem is well reported, but I'm wondering if it has a connection with Richard's car being a daily driver, or at least an exacerbating factor eg/ as such it will be prone to daily parking manouvres, etc, necessitating more extremes of lock movement, that Pat's car and my car will not be doing as fair-weather cruisers. Could this have an effect..perhaps with a bowed rack or unusual geometry. Also, Richard's car has to go wherever he wants rain, hail, dust or shine. Our cars probably venture out only when the weather is right....(well maybe not Pat's..it's never right in England  )..could this have an effect? Richard, another thought: if oil can get OUT of the vent hole to indicate a leak, can water/dust/engine oil etc get IN and perhaps cause damage? I know I'm clutching at straws, but it just intrigues me that 2 cars of significant age, but low miles, seem to be immune so far, but a well maintained regular user has problems. It goes against everything we know...ie/ well used cars usually have LESS problems... And yes, racks SHOULD last: The GM rack on my SAAB is original and done 189,000kms. A V12 jag had a rack upgrade shortly after I got it (for more feel), and hasn't been touched in 20years and countless kms since. GN. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 668 Registered: 4-2003 |
Gordon, Maybe I'm too picky, but a single drip is out of the question for any reason. Athletes shouldn't bleed because they work out, Daily, my steering manouveres are limited, and the duty cycle is very limited on the steering front. Driving out from a driveway is normal, ne ce se pas ? Just UnLucky I Guess. However, any component that suffers under daily use is to be despised, don't you think ? I groan but don't moan. Drive on: if the rack fails again this year, it's just two hours on the hoist to replace it again. RT. |
