| Author | Message | ||
     Roderick Waite Prolific User Username: rodwaite Post Number: 107 Registered: 1-2012 |
Hello to one and all, and a great 2015 ... Probably the wrong place, but the knob that turns the battery isolator switch is missing on my '84 Spirit - it was there when she went in for service, but missing when I got her back. Can't prove it, can't find it. Anyway, I turn it off every day as the battery drains in about 36 hours if I don't. Probably the starter motor. But it's a pain with a pair of pliers ... so I'd like to buy a new knob please! But where from? Buy the whole damn switch if I must (given a sensible price!). Help! Rod '84 Spirit ECH 09680 | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 600 Registered: 5-2012 |
Hi Rod I bought this one at $6.25. It's well made and does the job. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dautomotive&field-keywords=NOCO%20ID220S%206V-24V%20125%20Amp%20Battery%20Disconnect%20Switch Geoff | ||
| Roderick Waite Prolific User Username: rodwaite Post Number: 108 Registered: 1-2012 |
Hello Geoff, and thank you - it is a good alternative, but on the Spirit I'd have to pull up the carpet and remove the battery covers in the boot to get to it! I'm hoping to find yer actual knob - but they do seem to be in short supply! Bear it in mind though ... Stay well Rod '84 Spirit | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 603 Registered: 5-2012 |
Rod That's a really good point. I am doing a lot of work on my 74 SY1, bringing it up to spec, and have got used to having the battery open in the boot. It is now apparent to me I will need to change the switch to an "external" one when I've completed the work and want to replace the covers. In addition to preventing the battery discharging another really good reason to isolate the power when the car is in the garage is the risk of an electrical fire, particularly in older cars, like mine, with older wiring. I know the chance of a fire is very low, but flicking a switch every time the car is garaged is such a simple safety precaution. Geoff | ||
| Chris Browne Prolific User Username: chrisb Post Number: 181 Registered: 2-2010 |
This is the isolator switch on my car which was simply fitted by cutting a neat hole in the side trim carpet. Neat and tidy and no need to move the battery cover out of the way to access it.  Kind regards, Chris | ||
| Roderick Waite Prolific User Username: rodwaite Post Number: 109 Registered: 1-2012 |
Hello Chris - that's it, only on the Spirit it's fitted top right of the boot bulkhead, through the carpet like yours. What I need is the knob that turns the spindle! At the moment I use a pair of pliers on the spindle flats - but it's an awkward little blighter to get at. You have to use your left hand, too. I tried a miniature G-clamp, but it inevitably loosens itself and falls off (the knob is screwed into the spindle). Geoff - hadn't thought about a fire! Eek! Echo (my '84 Spirit) suffers from the common 'whiff of petrol' when you open the boot (saturated filler hose) which I must also do something about ... they keep us on our toes, do they not? Rod | ||
| Bob UK Unregistered guest |
The original switch is available from AES at £80. Ask if the knob is available. Turning it with pliers will make fitting a knob impossible. Alternatively go to an electronics shop and see what knobs they have. Maplins, Radio Spares, Tandy, or Radio Shack. The shaft size is probably 6.3 mm or 1/4". Which are standard knob size. Or make one. Meanwhile disconnect at the battery. AES is automotive electrical supplies UK. (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Roderick Waite Prolific User Username: rodwaite Post Number: 110 Registered: 1-2012 |
Hello Bob, and thanks - I've sent an e-mail to Auto Electric Supplies, see what happens. I searched their catalogue, which, while extensive, did not show a switch for a Rolls. Maybe a specialist department? Thanks also for warning ref: pliers, but no alternative unless I clear the boot to get the carpet up etc:. Always careful to get a good grip on the flats so as not to burr the edges- Good idea about Maplins etc: - but I'm in the middle of rural France, not too many around. Most of the ones I have looked at have only one flat, not two. Could make a key though, that wouldn't be too difficult, might come to that if I can't get a genuine part! Stay well Rod '84 Spirit | ||
| Bob UK Unregistered guest |
Rod, Why not get a piece of flat steel say 40mm long 25mm wide and 3 mm thick. Drill hole in the middle the same size as the distance across the flats of the spindle. Then using a round needle file elongate the hole to fit. It maybe easier to remove the switch and make yourself comfortable because it not a quick job. The switch on my 1974 car is different from the pictures and is round with on - off written on the top in white on black plastic. It is identical to the ones in the aes shop. This Will fit your car and Work the same Maybe just the knob is different. However there will be a knob to fit somewhere. Maplins have an on line shop. Generally electrical stuff like this has a standard shaft. This means that once the standard of the shaft is discovered you will be able to find a knob to fit. All this knobs and shafts is making for double meanings, but I have been good and not cracked any jokes apart from this paragraph. My car has a side battery and can be left uncovered but the EDs have the battery under the bit at the back which is a bit inconvenient for leaving uncovered. I always cover up. It embarrassing people seeing naked batteries. (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Larry Halpert Prolific User Username: larry_halpert Post Number: 143 Registered: 9-2003 |
I realize the original switch is available from AES at £80, or $121.45 US. For the few that see that as unaffordable (if you can actually imagine that), it is here at $39.95 US: http://www.triple-c.com/Products/BATTERY_CUT_OFF_SWITCH/SSB106Z | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 608 Registered: 5-2012 |
Larry That's too much for me. I've been looking at the Autozone one at 29.99. http://www.autozone.com/ignition/kill-switch/battery-doctor-mini-master-disconnect-switch-for-top-or-side-post-batteries/422689_0_0/ Geoff | ||
| Bob UK Unregistered guest |
The switch from www triple is the one that is fitted to my 1974 car. And at 40 quid a good price. These switches can be disassembled by drilling the rivets out. Unfortunately I couldn't find the auto zone one. Some battery switches I have seen won't pass high currents and slow the starter motor. Cheap junk. One type, when the knob is turned a big screw clamps the contacts together rather than a spring. These Will take a 1000 amps. Marine applications. These are a bit overkill for cars. Maplins. They have 214 styles of knobs. RW775. £1.19. Or FD76H £1.39. RW775 is a classic knob and FD76H is more modern looking. Both are 1/4 shaft with a side screw to tighten on to a flat. (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Larry Halpert Prolific User Username: larry_halpert Post Number: 144 Registered: 9-2003 |
Hi Geoff, The point of the $39.99 US one is that it is exactly the one supplied with the cars originally. The knob was also identical, and even the On/Off collar that was on my original '89 Spur switch, fit this one. Though forum members have called my site "dangerous" and "worthless", I was still thinking of putting this switch on there, if more and more of these switches are beginning to fail. If you don't mind a different looking switch, I imagine there are many choices that are far less money. Larry http://mutley.hypermart.net/RollsSubstituteParts.html | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 3169 Registered: 4-2003 |
I strongly agree with Larry on this one. It is the correct part, OEM, and neither a substitute nor an alternative part. It is worth paying the small premium to go for the correct part, but of course the hidden costs (like International shipping) make this switch cost around A$70 landed in Australia assuming that you dodge taxes and duties (only in almost every country other than Australia are taxes and duties applied anything above $40 so our ridiculous $1000 minimum is a gift for now). I bought two a few months back from the source nominated and they are fine if you still have a good escutcheon plate. The US$40 soon became $70, but that is really good value when a bonnet lamp switch for the same car costs about $150. You can buy a substitute from Jaycar for $15 including tax and it works but does not look correct. Also, most substitutes have a removable key which you may lose. Substitutes also take some fitting, and depending on how you value or charge your time the $15 alternative may be a $400 component once fitted Genuine = usually the same as the one fitted when new OEM = where Crewe sourced it. Ditto above unless Crewe has NOS or did something to it Aftermarket = replica, guaranteed authentic but sometimes improved but normally OEM Substitute = does the job, occasionally OEM but usually just good enough and unfortunately sometimes a risky cheap alternative Alternative = substandard component which may see you to a garage RT. | ||
| Roderick Waite Prolific User Username: rodwaite Post Number: 111 Registered: 1-2012 |
Plenty to look at there! I was looking at Maplins (they really do have 214 knobs) but none specify the spindle size, let alone across flats ... the original has a spindle that is about 8mm (or maybe 5/16") diameter, and about 5mm (or perhaps 7/32") across the flats. It sounds as if AES may have one, as they asked if I wanted the large wing-nut type, or the big round black knob type. The original one was the wing-nut type ... but as it's now the weekend, I won't hear anything until Monday ... to be honest, I didn't really expect to be able to buy just the knob! Meanwhile my pliers continue to do the job, but I look forward to just turning a knob! As to why I have to turn off the isolator to avoid running down the battery - I suspect the starter motor has an earth leak, but that's another story. Rod '84 Spirit | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 611 Registered: 5-2012 |
Larry You may be interested to know I came across your webpage about 3 years ago, before I actually owned a Silver Shadow and was deciding whether to buy one. Knowing of the possibility of using substitute parts was a factor in my choosing to buy a Sliver Shadow. I did not want to be in the position of paying top book for parts for a car whose value could not justify that expense. To that end, consider me as one of the forum members who considers your site to be NOT "dangerous" and "worthless". Quite the opposite in fact. The Shadow was not fitted with an isolator switch and therefore in theory originality is not a factor, however I think the switch you have listed is much more in keeping with the RR tradition, so this is the one I will be fitting. Thanks for the clarifying the reason for using this particular isolator switch. Regards Geoff. | ||
| Bob UK Unregistered guest |
5mm a/f sounds like a 6.35mm shaft size. The next is 8mm. Radio Spares have knobs with sizes on. Flying spares might sell a used knob. I personally if my switch went wrong disassembly and if not repairable buy a Lucas one for 40 because that very reasonable. However all that is needed is a knob. I like the look of my knob because it looks purposeful and has a definite click. I've never heard of a starter leak but alternator diodes can. To check iignition off and disconnect the main fat wire from the alternator output terminal, usually Brown. Then put a ampmeter in series. Should be zero. If the alternator is warm when it shouldn't be it'd drawing current. The alternator is connected to battery via the starter. (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Larry Halpert Prolific User Username: larry_halpert Post Number: 145 Registered: 9-2003 |
"consider me as one of the forum members who considers your site to be NOT "dangerous" and "worthless". Quite the opposite in fact." Geoff, Thanks for your comments. Also, if you are going to use that switch, the thin aluminum On/Off collar that fits onto it might be available used for cheap. I have no idea, what the price would be, but could be put on later as an added touch of factory "originality". | ||
| Bob UK. Unregistered guest |
Forgot about AC leaks. If a diode is less than good and/or failing. Then it can let the current reverse. AC current can happily coexist in a DC circuit. This is a use for capacitors in electronics they can filter out unwanted AC. The electrical system on a car will happily run like this. BUT the battery doesn't like it. This will damage the battery. To check connect AC voltmeter to battery and start engine. Rpm 1500 lights on blowers on. The meter should read zero AC volts. This works because the voltmeter won't detect DC volts unless DC is selected.and versa visa. If a AC voltage is detected then there is a faulty diode. I have seen alternators that are draining the battery but once started the alternator charges. The owner doesn't realise for a few weeks. Then a new alternator is fitted and a month later a battery because the few weeks of AC leaking has kippered the battery. In the good old days of those big tuning machines on castor wheels there used to be a function which put the alternator output on the scope. I used to detect the odd car with AC in the alternator output to the battery. (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Roderick Waite Prolific User Username: rodwaite Post Number: 112 Registered: 1-2012 |
Hey Bob, that's a handy check and quite easy to do! I had the alternator checked about 6 months ago, but I wonder if the guy knew about AC leaks? I certainly didn't, so I was blaming the starter motor without just cause. So far the battery has stood up to it ... I'll give it a go ... thank you! Stay well Rod '84 Spirit | ||
| Bob UK Unregistered guest |
A digital multimeter is a very handy bit of kit. For a mere £10 an enormous amount of electrical faults can be detected. To get maximum benefit from the £10 I regularly use a calculator and electrical maths. I have just repaired a 240v motor. It wouldn't have been possible with out meters to check. If buying a new meter get one with a continuity buzzer. The buzzer saves looking at the meter when in awkward positions. Regards Bob. (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Roderick Waite Prolific User Username: rodwaite Post Number: 113 Registered: 1-2012 |
Hello all, AES have come up with the right item - unfortunately I have to buy the complete switch, which is a Lucas SSB106 type (AES pt: 071707), 120 amp: 12v. But at £26.35 delivered it won't break the Bank, and I'll have a spare switch into the bargain. The thing is that the spindle is 8mm with 5½mm across flats - perfect! Bob, I have a tried and tested meter, so I don't even have to buy one! It gets better ... Stay well ... Rod '84 Spirit | ||
| Bob UK Unregistered guest |
120amp x 12v = 1440 watts which is just under 2hp. 746 watts to a hp. Every shadow I have seen has a battery isolator on the left side next to a 2 pin power socket. Maybe only UK spec cars, and option elsewhere. I too I am concerned about old wiring. Mine seems nice and solid but one can't see everything. For others thinking of getting a meter get one with auto shut off to save the meters battery. £3 each soon gets expensive. (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Bob Reynolds Prolific User Username: bobreynolds Post Number: 218 Registered: 8-2012 |
"Every shadow I have seen has a battery isolator on the left side next to a 2 pin power socket. Maybe only UK spec cars, and option elsewhere." Mine doesn't have either of those. 1975 UK model. I can't see any evidence of them being fitted anywhere, but not sure where to look. I don't really know why anybody would remove these items, so I assume the car never had them. Can somebody please post a photo of theirs so that I can investigate further, and fit the parts if necessary. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 3170 Registered: 4-2003 |
I have never seen one fitted as standard equipment on a Silver Shadow, and tht is not just on a few cars and on most continents. I fitted one to SBH13247 (1972) over a decade ago as I was tired of my father disconnecting the battery with a spanner every week as a good measure for 30 years. RT. | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 1521 Registered: 4-2003 |
DRH14434 was a 1973 UK-delivered vehicle and did not have a battery isolator fitted. | ||
| John Kilkenny Prolific User Username: john_kilkenny Post Number: 177 Registered: 6-2005 |
A quick look at all the Shadow Wiring Diagrams shows that none of them includes a battery isolating switch. IMO just something else to go wrong. | ||
| Roderick Waite Prolific User Username: rodwaite Post Number: 114 Registered: 1-2012 |
I don't think Shadows had isolator switches, but their batteries tended to go flat if left for a few days, or at least a number of them did. Enough for an isolator to be fitted to the succeeding model, the Spirit. I had no occasion to use it for about 4 years, then the battery began to go flat if not used for a couple of days. Prime suspect is the alternator diodes, as explained in this topic, which I will apply Bob UK's test method to when in mechanic mode. Rod '84 Spirit | ||
| John Kilkenny Prolific User Username: john_kilkenny Post Number: 179 Registered: 6-2005 |
Rod, Maybe you should get your four year old battery checked. All batteries will self discharge during non-use and our cars probably have more time in the garage than others. This is a much more likely cause than leaky alternator diodes which other makes do not appear to suffer from. | ||
| Roderick Waite Prolific User Username: rodwaite Post Number: 115 Registered: 1-2012 |
Hello John K - my first thought! I reckon car batteries to have a life in the order of 3 - 5 years. Echo had a new battery in June 2011 ... so I put a shunt across it, and it held beautifully (the shunt got red hot!). It will also spin the engine forever when I turn the isolator on, so I was obliged to look elsewhere. Thanks for the thought though! Keep well Rod '84 Spirit | ||
| Bob Reynolds Prolific User Username: bobreynolds Post Number: 221 Registered: 8-2012 |
The life of a battery depends on how it is treated. Batteries that are kept charged up can last for 10 years or more. Batteries left in a state of discharge for any length of time may not even last a year. The worst thing you can do to a battery is to let it get discharged and leave it in that condition. Once this has happened you may be able to charge it up again, but it will not hold its charge for very long, and you will constantly be having to keep charging it up. Keeping batteries charged up on little-used cars is getting more difficult with all the electronic equipment on board that remains switched on even when the car is parked (alarms, wireless sensors, etc). | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 621 Registered: 5-2012 |
Is it ok to charge a battery with terminals still connected but with the isolator switch in the off position. I mean for pre-ecu cars with minimal electronics i.e. just a few diodes and transistors. Geoff | ||
| Roderick Waite Prolific User Username: rodwaite Post Number: 116 Registered: 1-2012 |
Hello people - OK, problem solved. As reported above, I bought a Lucas switch from AES (AES part 071707). It arrived today, and the winged knob is a perfect fit on the spindle of Echo's switch - BUT - the screw that holds it on was too small! Probably a metric 4mm, whereas the thread in my switch is probably 2BA (4.7mm). Luckily I found a suitable screw in my 'handy box' which is full of all kinds of bits that might come in handy. I'm sure we all have one of those! Hooray! No more left-handed fumbling with the pliers ... Stay good ... Rod '84 Spirit | ||
| Bob Reynolds Prolific User Username: bobreynolds Post Number: 222 Registered: 8-2012 |
"Is it ok to charge a battery with terminals still connected but with the isolator switch in the off position." Unless I misunderstand your question, the battery isn't connected if the switch is in the 'off' position. | ||
| Roderick Waite Prolific User Username: rodwaite Post Number: 118 Registered: 1-2012 |
Hello Geoff, well, I had no problems doing just that when the battery started to run down - I just turned off the isolator switch and connected my trickle charger to the battery terminals. Worked fine, though it took 24 hours to get the battery fully charged again. Rod '84 Spirit |
