| Author | Message | ||
     Chris Buckenham Experienced User Username: chris_buckenham Post Number: 40 Registered: 6-2012 |
Good Evening Everybody, It's been I while since I last posted and I hope that it's ok to mention a few different things in the same post. Turbo R 57843 April 1997 To start with if anybody ever needs to borrow taps, dies gauges etc both left and right handed to deal with wheel nuts and studs then please don't hesitate to contact me. Earlier this year due to the typical pressure of work and other commitments I sent my car to a specialist to change the front springs which had sagged fairly badly. I provided replacement Azure springs as recommended to the specialist who apparently had the correct spring tooling. They also did a number of other jobs which in all added up to quite a lot of work. When I picked the car up it looked like it had a ton of sand in the boot. Not to worry I was told , we've done plenty of these , it will settle and all will be well. Well it did not settle in fact I would say that it was a least 3 inches too high at the front , handled poorly and looked idiotic. Then came the shim conversation. " Don't worry there are no shims in there". All of this and I am left thinking maybe it is the springs? Well in the end I couldn't face messing about going backwards and forwards trying to get it sorted out so made a spring compressor at work and got stuck in over the weekend. 1/16th" shim on the nearside and 1/2" on the offside and a right mess the lower spring pans /cups / holders were as well. Height now restored and measuring within 1/2" front to rear with the front still slightly higher. Should I raise the rear a little to compensate? Has anybody else had experience of the Azure spring in a Turbo R? There is evidence of the front shocks / struts weeping at the upper seal, worse on the offside. Is it possible to rebuild these with a kit of any sort or is it a specialist only job? On another matter the speakers seem to be degrading quite badly . Having searched I can see what other people have used. When it comes to the tweeters in the top roll are they just pushed in or anchored somehow from below the dashboard? In the boot , behind the panel the panel that drops down to reveal the tools etc there are some amplifier wires. The car is fitted with what looks like the original Alpine radio with a CD unit in the centre console. Would there have originally been an amplifier in that position or was it an option? Finally , have had some trouble with the Climate control. Discovered that the specialist replaced the Air Con pump clutch relay with one without a diode. No Air Con now so I have replaced all of the relays with brand new Bosch units. Tested the resistor block which appears to be ok and now the fans don't blow flat out all the time. Last week I dropped down the fuse panels to test the Diode board and couldn't find it. Does any body know the location of it on this model year ? Getting ready to test the Microprocessor board within the next couple of weeks but thought it best to try to deal the peripheral stuff first. Finally , have done nearly 5000 miles since the head gasket job and best not say anymore on that. Looking forwards to any and all replies. Best regards, Chris Buckenham | ||
| Omar M. Shams Grand Master Username: omar Post Number: 432 Registered: 4-2009 |
Dear Chris, Always great to hear from you. I am concerned that "specialists" in your neighbourhood are nothing more than incompetent crooks. I am a little surprised to learn that the springs on an Azure are different to those on a turbo R. Only reason I ask is because I want to do the opposite of you (well almost). I have a damaged front shock absorber/damper on my Azure and i was going to fit the one from my scrap 91 Turbo R in it. They look the same form the outside. do you know of these are different? Sorry to reply to your message with a question. Omar Ps PM me if you can make it for another dinner sometime. | ||
| Paul Yorke Grand Master Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 1279 Registered: 6-2006 |
Hi Chris, I fitted Azure springs to a Corniche (as recommended to my client) and it was ridiculously high. I wasn't happy with it so took them out and fitted Turbo springs instead. I am not sure what could have been affected to make the rear sink, unless it was an illusion because the front was so high? I would say not to raise the rear, you need to lower the front. Unfortunately that will probably mean changing the springs for ones that are not so stiff. Damper repairs are tricky and specialised. I don't thing that there is much info about oil quantities and pressures available. Good luck with her, sounds like that was a bit of a step backwards.  | ||
| Chris Buckenham Experienced User Username: chris_buckenham Post Number: 41 Registered: 6-2012 |
Good Evening Omar and Paul, Thanks for the replies. I will try to get a couple of pictures resized tomorrow to post. Omar , hope that you are well , I will be back in January all being well . I think from what I have read that the active ride struts /dampers on the 91 Turbo R will be the same before the factory upgraded design , even though I don't know what that entailed. The azure springs were meant to be just that much stiffer. Paul , your reply has given me confidence that it was not just my opinion, it did look ridiculous , but it is very nearly there. Having driven it home this evening on back roads I have started to use the Sport button, and it drives very well now that it is lower. I had a look in the hand book tonight and it only refers to the sport button influencing the gearbox and not the active ride suspension , or rather there is no mention of the suspension, ,is that right? Best regards, Chris | ||
| Bob uk Unregistered guest Posted From: 94.197.122.85 |
By rule of thumb the sill trim should line up with the centre of the wheels. The tweeters are normally fitted with plastic cones so last for years. The bigger ones have cardboard cones. The ohms will most likely be 8ohms. The watts don't have to match the watts of the amp. My radio is 4 x 25 watts Rms. 8 ohms. My speakers are 10 watts 8 ohm from maplin. 25 watts rms is loud in a room and very loud in a car. By using lighter speakers the voice coil is lighter and response is faster. If the volume is cranked up I get distortion. However the range at sensible volumes is excellent for a car. IMO, a lot of nonsense is spoken about sound systems. My home sound system is a 50watt Cambridge audio amp and matching speakers which look very plain. The sound is bang on. No equalizer no gadgets. So many garages are indifferent to their work. If you can make stuff like spring compressors then you can fix the whole car. (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Chris Buckenham Experienced User Username: chris_buckenham Post Number: 42 Registered: 6-2012 |
Thanks Bob , I've got a picture of my spring compressor to load up, just got to make it smaller. But do you know if those tweeters just pop out of the trim or are they fixed i.e screwed down? Regards, Chris | ||
| Chris Buckenham Experienced User Username: chris_buckenham Post Number: 43 Registered: 6-2012 |
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| Chris Buckenham Experienced User Username: chris_buckenham Post Number: 45 Registered: 6-2012 |
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| James Feller Grand Master Username: james_feller Post Number: 328 Registered: 5-2008 |
Chris, For what it is worth Paul is correct as is Bob too, don't muck around with the rear ride height. My 89 RL was the opposite of yours when I bought it. That being the front was a tad low and the rear was a tad high. Not dramatic, maybe an inch too high but I did notice it when looking at it side on parked on a flat road. It actually looked good at a quick glance but when I had the front springs, castor mounts, camber bushes etc etc done to the front the mechanics re-set the rear height back down to what it should have been and what a difference to the handling it made. Stick to factory settings if you can. Cheers J | ||
| Bob uk Unregistered guest Posted From: 94.197.122.83 |
I own a Shadow so I don't know about the tweeters. Do the other bigger speakers first and you may find the tweeters, assuming they still work may sound right. Any RR not at correct ride height looks wrong like alcohol free lager, wrong. It is best that the job is correct because every fault degrades the car which is meant to be the best car in the world. You can obviously engineer your way around machinery so preserve and get the height bang on. Read the manual on static height and follow the instructions and all will be revealed. Else every time you drive the car you will wonder if the car would feel better with it set right. I don't like the style of SZ cars. Of course the SZ is better than an SY, because RR didn't make newer models unless they were better than previous. Don't forget the lower spring cup drain holes. Incidentally in SY land the rear springs are all over the place specification wise as well. And mine are saggy so next year I will be spring wrestling as well. (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Mark David Smith Experienced User Username: detroitbrit Post Number: 13 Registered: 7-2013 |
on the topic of springs and dampers , has anybody ever fitted adjustable coilover units , so that the ride height and damping can be tuned to suit . | ||
| Paul Yorke Grand Master Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 1285 Registered: 6-2006 |
Does Crewe in 1991 count?  | ||
| Bob uk Unregistered guest Posted From: 94.197.122.81 |
It would be possible to fit coil overs with the c spanner nuts to set ride height and little screws that adjust damper rates. I have used these things a lot but they are not cheap. The correct springs from Crewe are naughty price wise. However any spring maker will be able to wind a pair for say £150. In the main it is the rear springs that sag. Rears are easier to change and once New are fitted even easier to shim to the correct right height, because the tools are ready and all the nuts will come undone. RR say a maximum of 20 shims at 0.048" inches which is 18swg. 20 is 0.960" call it an inch. The shims should be shared top and bottom. The shims are 6" outside dia with a 5" hole. Like washers. These can be made from steel. The spring acts on the trailing arm. The wheel centre is further back. So put a 1/4 inch shim will raise the car 5/16. I have shimmed a few cars over the years and it is easy to do. Once the shims are made or acquired. I have seen hard rubber washers about 1/2 thick for caravan towing. The companies name is Grayston I think. These had a groove for the spring the same as the rubber and canvas ring fitted by RR. So in conclusion the RR set up works fine and because it a once in 20 years job then it's not worth the hassle. The ride ram etc is IMO a good idea that doesn't seem to work that well. However with colonial rate springs the ride says off unless the car is very heavily loaded. So problem solved. SZ cars seem to have front spring spec troubles, confusion between Azure springs and Turbo R springs. (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Jan Forrest Grand Master Username: got_one Post Number: 680 Registered: 1-2008 |
I fitted 2 sets (1 set each side) of those Greyston rubber spring inserts. Rather than putting them between the turns, where they gave virtually no lift at all, I placed one below the spring and one above. This gives my Shadow the exact amount of lift to bring her bustle back up out of the dust. As implied the grooves mean that the end spring coils sit inside them so that they aren't prone to movement. I'll probably treat her to a new set of springs in the near future. The size I bought, if memory serves, was for another RR - Range Rover. | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 502 Registered: 5-2012 |
I fitted 4 rubber spring inserts on each of the springs on my car and only got 1/2" lift. I know many owners have reported good results, but on my car it was marginal. I have major reservations about using rubber spring inserts above and below the springs. When I recently replaced my rear springs I took some photos to illustrate this point.   I placed the rubber spring assister on the lower spring housing to show just how far it extends above the housing. The spring when compressed will push the rubber assister lower, but I doubt it would be far enough for the spring to be safely contained. The same applies to the top housing.  Here, the force of the spring would be pushing the assister, which is slotted, off the seating. All down to personal choice, but for me I would feel uncomfortable knowing the springs were so badly seated. Geoff | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 503 Registered: 5-2012 |
I've just realised this is the Silver Spirit forum. I should point out my car is a Silver Shadow. The spring housings on a Spirit may be different - apologies. Geoff | ||
| Jan Forrest Grand Master Username: got_one Post Number: 682 Registered: 1-2008 |
Certainly the lower spring seats are deeper on a Shadow 1 (probably the 2 as well) so that the rubber sits just out of sight. The top seems a little different, but it's been quite a while since I did the job, so I'm a little fuzzy on the details here. | ||
| James Feller Grand Master Username: james_feller Post Number: 329 Registered: 5-2008 |
Geoff, Completely share your concerns and sentiments re rubber spring spacers. I too would feel very uneasy knowing the springs were not firmly seated in the steel surrounds. The rear suspension arrangement and geometry is different on an SZ compared to SY. Front suspension however is virtually identical. For SZ as I stated before, best to have cars set up as per factory settings. A shimm here and there is ok for mild front end sag but if the front componentry is really knackered putting in new springs and shocks and bushes will be a revelation and transform a tired woolly handler.... J | ||
| Bob uk Unregistered guest Posted From: 94.197.122.78 |
Geoff that's my fault because I drifted into shadows from spirits. My springs are 3/4 of an inch to low. Given that RR say I inch max for shims plus what may already be fitted would put my car close to the limit and maybe over it. At the moment my car is off road because the ride height is taking 20 miles to pick up the back 3/4 inch, due to dodgy hoses from ride valves to rams. And a hole in me tail pipe. I need new rear springs. I have a rough idea of 300lbs per inch and 22" free length. I thought that if the spring was ordered slightly too long then I could cut say 1/4 of coil off one end to get near without shims then shims to get bang on. I fitted Grayston rubbers between the coils which lifted about 1/4 to 1/2 inch only but the rubbers have raised the spring rate. This has stopped the rear end wallow. Richard Treacy fitted colonial springs to a Bentley T1. Richard said that the rear roll bar needs adjusting to match to get the best results. Makes sense because stiffer springs need less roll bar. To lessen a roll bar the easiest and cheapest way is to grind off some of the middle so it twists easier, how much it ground off is unknown and expensive if too much is ground off. Someone many years ago said that Range Rover Springs fit, but I don't think he's right because the rover has a nivomat strut at the rear. I feel from driving my car with the Grayston rubbers that there is more to be gained from tunning the rear suspension. The potential is there providing I guess right.  (Message approved by david_gore) |
