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A.R. Greenberg
Experienced User
Username: bergxu

Post Number: 15
Registered: 2-2012
Posted on Tuesday, 05 March, 2013 - 02:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Just musing; In the event that my current daily driver, a 2000 Jaguar XJR (which I love dearly) were ever totaled or became uneconomical to repair (of course, at 221K miles, I've just spent several thousand on new timing chains and a front end rebuild, so perhaps I've already long since crossed that "uneconomical" threshold), I would press my '89 Turbo R into daily use. Conditions would be as follows:

1. Would sit outside at home since my '53 R-Type is in our garage. Would sit outside at work.
2. Would be subjected to Ohio weather (read: winters!)
3. Would (of course) be kept properly maintained, mechanically, and would be washed weekly and waxed bi-annually, just like my XJR.

The Turbo R was a native Californian until I stole it away and brought it here to Ohio this past fall. Right now, it's tucked away since there's no need to expose it to any inclement weather, although after a careful survey of the car, I don't feel that it's entirely nice enough to continue treating it like that. Granted, I'm not saying I'm planning on turning it into a beater, far from it, but since I finally have a Turbo R that's NOT in pristine condition, I figure why preserve it for the next guy?--this one needs to continue to be driven and used. It has 85K on it and, thanks to the California climes, has no rust on or underneath it, but it does have enough small cosmetic 'flaws' which, to correct, would mean a lot of money spent in paintwork, and I'm not so sure SZs are going to be worth putting that kind of $$ into for the foreseeable future. Anyhow....thoughts?

By the way, I'll go ahead and let loose the numbers; I have about $17.5K (USD) into the car, all said and done. Seems that with these cars, they're either mint $25-30K examples or else they're drivers and not likely to rise in value.
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 322
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Tuesday, 05 March, 2013 - 04:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Dear AR,
You have touched on a subject close to my heart. These cars are ours to enjoy. We have worked hard and earned hard to now be able to enjoy them. If they are tucked away in the garage for the next generation to enjoy, then you are not the owner of that car - just a custodian or museum security man. I have no museum security man costumes in my wardrobe. I enjoy all my cars and if I crash any of them or ding them or scratch them - fix em like you would your other cars. In fact I have gone as far as not having any other cars. My daily drivers are my classics. They are mine to enjoy, not someone else's that I am simply preserving. I didnt like the colour of one of my cars - so I changed it to suit my taste. I didnt like the small back window on one of my Wraiths, so I enlarged it. I didnt like Wraith hubcaps, so I put Shadow ones that I do like. I dont really care what purists say. These are my cars - and mine to enjoy. When I am dead and gone, the value of the cars will be 20% or so less than a pristine example - who cares??? will I lose any sleep in my grave??? maybe not!!
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Michael Hicks
Prolific User
Username: bentleyman22

Post Number: 107
Registered: 12-2011
Posted on Tuesday, 05 March, 2013 - 05:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I am with Omar
the newest car in my fleet is the RT 1998
Then We have the Honda 1997 then the Mazda RX7 Conve
and last but not least My Jaguar XJS V12 Convertible
there all in dally use and which ever car was last in has to go out first in the morning which is fun as you don't know what your driving the next day
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Mark Aldridge
Frequent User
Username: mark_aldridge

Post Number: 93
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Tuesday, 05 March, 2013 - 05:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

AR; like Omar, I use my classic cars as everyday transport and my only modern car is my company Landrover pickup. I believe cars should be enjoyed and what better way of improving a potentialy boring journey.
Mark
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Michael Hicks
Prolific User
Username: bentleyman22

Post Number: 108
Registered: 12-2011
Posted on Tuesday, 05 March, 2013 - 06:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The Wife when asked about the Bentley she tells them well it is OLD
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A.R. Greenberg
Experienced User
Username: bergxu

Post Number: 16
Registered: 2-2012
Posted on Tuesday, 05 March, 2013 - 06:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thanks for the thoughts, gents. Glad to see others are on the same page as I am about this. Part of me would certainly feel most guilty about picking up daily-driver "road rash" on the car, however I've now been down this road with three previous Turbo Rs, all of which were in near-impeccable condition and were cars which I was afraid to drive anywhere. Fortunately, I sold them all while they were still in said condition and figured I'd find myself an early (20,000 series) car in my favorite color (Vermillion Red) and just use it as it was intended.

Now, my ONE hesitation with doing this is; tires. Right now, the car has Goodyear Eagle LS's on it which, 5-6 years ago, were still available in the proper size and were a reasonable alternative to the massively overpriced Avons. Nowadays, unless I change rims (which I don't want to do), I'm either stuck with Avons at $429/each through Tire Rack Wholesale or else will have to find a suitably-sized alternate tire. And that being said, what does the concensus here feel is a good alternative size tire for a 15" rim? The original Avons are 255/65-15 size.

Cheers all,
Aaron
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Geoff Wootton
Frequent User
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 100
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Tuesday, 05 March, 2013 - 07:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I broadly agree with the above comments however I have one reservation. Winters. In colder climes this means gritting salt which is an absolute killer for any car. When I lived in the UK I always garaged my classic cars during the "salt" season. I know this would not be an issue for Omar, livng in Dubai, however it may be for Aaron, Mark and Michael. I'd be interested in your comments on winter driving in this regard.

Incidentally Omar, I note your impeccable English is of the UK variety, rather than US English. Have you ever lived in the UK? - just curious.
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Michael Hicks
Prolific User
Username: bentleyman22

Post Number: 109
Registered: 12-2011
Posted on Tuesday, 05 March, 2013 - 07:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

i would put it on 17in as if your going to drive it it will be a lot better on the road
and in the long run cheaper much beater choice
and replacement easy
i am running Federal
there is little bit more road noise but a good C/D will put that to bed
Michael
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Bill Coburn
Moderator
Username: bill_coburn

Post Number: 1495
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Tuesday, 05 March, 2013 - 08:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hear hear!!
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Mark Aldridge
Frequent User
Username: mark_aldridge

Post Number: 94
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Tuesday, 05 March, 2013 - 09:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Geoff, I waxoyl the complete underside and lightly re coat the enclosed sections every Autumn and coat the chrome and stainless with duck oil everytime the car is washed.They are regularly pressure washed underneath and all pivots etc are coated with marine grease, as used in outboards. The Landrover gets the same treatment.
Come Spring, any paint damage is rectified.
Mark
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A.R. Greenberg
Experienced User
Username: bergxu

Post Number: 17
Registered: 2-2012
Posted on Tuesday, 05 March, 2013 - 10:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Michael,

Don't want to go with 17s...had them standard on my '96 and hated the ride. I also prefer the look of the old school 15" alloys.

Nevertheless, after I get some good seat time in the car this summer, I'll know better how I'll feel about running it through the winter months. A wise RR mechanic once told me "these are warm weather cars, they prefer Boca Raton over Chicago in December..." ;)
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Brian Vogel
Prolific User
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 271
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Tuesday, 05 March, 2013 - 11:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Aaron,

You may wish to consider 235/70R15 tires and you'll have quite a few options. The difference in physical size is negligible.

If you want to play the, "What currently available tire size might I substitute for the stock size?," game this tire size calculator [uses Java] can prove very helpful. Try plugging in your original tire size and 235/70R15 and you'll see what I mean.

That being said, this app calculates based on industry standard nominal tire sizes. There is enough +/- wiggle room in the standards that you need to pay attention to the actual size that the manufacturer states for their tires in a given size.

Good luck in your search.

Brian
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A.R. Greenberg
Experienced User
Username: bergxu

Post Number: 18
Registered: 2-2012
Posted on Tuesday, 05 March, 2013 - 11:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thanks Brian. Only issue I see with that size is that nothing is available in the appropriate speed rating for the Turbo R. Thoughts?

There is an Avon Turbosteel for $258/ea my cost which isn't terrible, although I hope that one sidewall of that tire is a black wall as they say they're white walls.
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Brian Vogel
Prolific User
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 272
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Tuesday, 05 March, 2013 - 12:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Aaron,

Unless you intend to drive the car for very long periods of time at speeds much higher than are legal in the USA it's not likely that speed rating will matter. An 'S' speed rating is good for sustained speeds of 112 MPH and a 'T' for 118 MPH. I know of virtually no one who comes close to those speeds on anything but a track, if that. We just don't have high speed limits here.

I'd pay a lot more attention to load rating, which needs to be above 100, and in this size virtually any tire is at least a 102 and they go up from there. 225/75R15 is another size that's an option.

The following are my favorite online tire sites and it's amazing what the different sites stock in a given size and the price differential that can exist for precisely the same tire:

Onlinetires.com http://www.onlinetires.com

Tire Rack.com http://www.tirerack.com

Tires-Easy.com http://www.tires-easy.com

Treadepot.com http://www.treadepot.com


Brian
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A.R. Greenberg
Experienced User
Username: bergxu

Post Number: 19
Registered: 2-2012
Posted on Tuesday, 05 March, 2013 - 12:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Good info Brian, thanks!

I guess I had my speed rating and load rating confused...been a long day!

Well, good news in any case as that was really my only hesitation about running the Turbo R daily. I'll have a peek at those websites ;)
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David Thomas
Experienced User
Username: davidthomas

Post Number: 29
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Tuesday, 05 March, 2013 - 02:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

For what its worth, I've run Maxxis (with a narrow whitewall) on a Shadow and a Spirit 11 and been very happy with them.
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Jan Forrest
Grand Master
Username: got_one

Post Number: 459
Registered: 1-2008
Posted on Tuesday, 05 March, 2013 - 09:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

As far as using my Shadow 1 for a daily driver I just couldn't afford to with her ridiculous lack of fuel economy even with the LPG conversion. Fortunately I also own a little Rover 216 Cabrio (Honda Engine) which can see 45 mpg (~7 litres/100 kilometres) and a diesel Toyota Estima which runs happily on a witch's brew of 60% waste veg oil, 35% used sump oil and 5% unleaded and still returns over 30mpg (~10 litres/100 kilometres).

However the Shadow has to sit outside in all weathers due to the fact that, even if the garage wasn't full of other stuff, she's too long for it. All throughout last Winter she sat under a pair of cheap fabric shelters, but the storms in the later part of the season put paid to them so I've now got the shaped car cover out of storage which covers her down to the middle of the hub caps. At least it keeps the rain/snow/sleet/sunlight off her.

Like Mark Aldridge I've given her 2 full coats of underseal (Schutz) and still have enough left for a third. We happy breed who have the ... privilege ... to live in Blighty will be able to tell you that as we live at the confluence of 3 if not 4 climate systems we don't have a climate of our own; BUT we do have plenty of weather which the impending climate change has made even more variable than before! To my mind the best addition to that regime (apart from standard servicing) can only be a regular coating of any good 'wax' polish to all the paint and chrome surfaces. That should see her lasting for another couple of generations or more.
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A.R. Greenberg
Experienced User
Username: bergxu

Post Number: 20
Registered: 2-2012
Posted on Tuesday, 05 March, 2013 - 10:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Brian,

Thanks for that tire size calculator. That's perhaps the best one I've seen on the web. I like the graphic as well as the side-by-side size comparison of the dimensions and I see what you mean about the 235/70-15 being a negligible difference. All great info, so thank you again, as always ;) That puts my mind at ease since the Goodyears on the car, while still plenty good on treadlife, have to be at least 5-6 years old, so I might replace them simply due to age before the driving season begins this year.
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 323
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Tuesday, 05 March, 2013 - 10:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Dear Aaron,
Options for tyres in the USA are much better than where I am - you are lucky to have so much choice. You have been given top notch advice by Brian. Everything he has said has been exact and I would have only repeated his very words.
Enjoy your car!!
I agree with everyone about warm weather and driving in salty conditions in winter. Salt will eat your cars in a fraction of the time - so leave the cars at home when the roads are being covered in salt. It is hard for me to imagine that kind of weather. In fact I sometimes retire my classics in July and August because the ambients are that high that I could risk overheating my engines. An overheated engine will be my worry to fix, not the next generation's.
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Jeff Young
Prolific User
Username: jeyjey

Post Number: 113
Registered: 10-2010
Posted on Tuesday, 05 March, 2013 - 11:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I also leave my T2 outside in all weather (in Ireland).

In fact, it's why I have a T2. My first choice was an Alvis TD21, but I just couldn't bring myself to leaving something that rare out in the weather.

Jeff.
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A.R. Greenberg
Experienced User
Username: bergxu

Post Number: 21
Registered: 2-2012
Posted on Tuesday, 05 March, 2013 - 11:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Omar,

Well, that's one of my issues--the car will have no choice but to be driven year-round, including winter when the roads are salt covered. Granted, Cincinnati isn't nearly as bad as northern Ohio is (Cleveland, etc...) snow-wise, but we get these occasional freak snow storms with 5+" and everyone here panics so the roads are layered with salt. Thing is, that only really happens a few times per winter, it's not like that all the time like Cleveland is.

Indeed, part of me will still feel guilty about driving this car through salt but as I've said before, it's not going up in value anytime soon, and, quite frankly, even if I drove the hell out of it over the next few years, I probably wouldn't lose too much money on it if I were to sell it. Seems that even a ratty Mulsanne S with almost 200K on it will still bring $7K as evidenced by one that a friend sold on eBay about a month ago. He had it listed for about two days then someone hit the buy-it-now and it was gone.
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James Feller
Prolific User
Username: james_feller

Post Number: 275
Registered: 5-2008
Posted on Wednesday, 06 March, 2013 - 09:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Buy them and drive them....its that simple. They will alwasy need something thats a given...the are old cars now... I try to drive my cars at least once a week. As for salted roads...its not something we need to worry about here in Australia thank goodness and looking underneath UK imports into Aus you can almost always tell a import from a car that was delivered to Aus new. Like Omar, I dont particularly like driving my cars in scorching temps 40' + .... Its just too hot for any old car really. Neither of my cars have ever overheated mind you the occasions when I have had to take them in these high temps but its only me that panics a bit and I alwasy keep and eye on the temp guage.... I would disagree slightly about warm to hot conditions WRT to Bentley Turbos. I find my Turbo much prefers cooler weather than say 35-40'. WRT to performance. It is much more eager I feel in ambient temps of 15-25'. Also freezing weather here our Turbos dont mind either...I find storming up the freeways when its -3 the car just loves it....now of course in Aus we are lucky I suppose that while we get these very cold temps in winter its not normally accompanyed by freezing sleet, snow and rain....

J