| Author | Message | ||
     ype haringsma Yet to post message Username: ypestis Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2012 |
Dear RR forum, Im fixing up my 30 year old RR Silver Spirit. One of the first things we want to fix is the suspension. It's very hard and one of the first things we did was replacing the spheres in the back.. After replacement the suspension still feels hard... When the car is started it comes up normally.. My friend says it feels like a Citroen in the highest mode.. All the components have been checked already and are not seized up. Is there any step by step plan for this kind of problem? Is it possible that there is air in the system? Any advice and help would be greatly appreciated. Regards, Ype | ||
| Paul Yorke Grand Master Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 886 Registered: 6-2006 |
Hi Ype, Any air in the system would make it softer if anything. Are you sure the springs are correct? about 16.5 bar with NO restrictors in the outlet? Are they OE or from a reliable source? More elongated than spherical? Is the rear going up too high or is it sitting nicely horizontal? | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2710 Registered: 4-2003 |
Paul, May I guess what you are implying ? If one fits 60 Bar (ie primary pressure) spheres - the spherical ones (!!) - to the rear suspension as gas springs, then the ride will be like a horse cart with wooden wheelrims and no springs at all !! With less than 4 bar or more than 30 bar in the gas spring spheres the ride would be absolutely shocking. RT. | ||
| Paul Yorke Grand Master Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 887 Registered: 6-2006 |
Richard , was I hinting?? I've seen it . . . and felt it. lol. Some elongated ones have restrictors in which causes the same effect. The worst I have seen is elongated ones fitted as accumulators which involved bending everything to make room for them to fit! How they managed to do it astounded me! It amuses me when I hear 'oh they are just Citroen ones' | ||
| Daniel Diewerge Experienced User Username: didi13109 Post Number: 33 Registered: 11-2009 |
What is if the rear coil springs are very weak and the strut assemblies have to work with higher pressure to achieve the correct ride height? I understood that the struts will become stiffer as pressure increases. I will replace my rear springs as well this winter because the ride of my car (1985 SZ) is too hard for my taste. I have new correct spheres from Flying Spares. Cheers Daniel | ||
| Paul Yorke Grand Master Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 888 Registered: 6-2006 |
Daniel, if the coil springs are weak then they will be less stiff so would give a softer ride and probably balance out the higher fluid pressure. ? It is the availability of space for the fluid in the strut and the diameter of the orifice the fluid can transfer through (so the speed it can transfer) that determines the softness of ride. If the gas has been exhausted in the gas spring the fluid can not escape from the strut so the wheel barrow effect occurs. As the volume of gas decreases the more 'bottoming out' occurs. On variable ride cars there are electrically operated ports on the top of the struts which allow the fluid to move at different rates giving firmer or softer rides. Small port for Sports Mode, Large port for Comfort Mode. | ||
| ype haringsma New User Username: ypestis Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2012 |
Hey all thanks alot for all the responses.. The spheres we got are new from a Citroen dealer.. Is there any way how we can recognize if they are the good type? The first thing we will check is BAR.. Found a neat site which explains it, in dutch.. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2714 Registered: 4-2003 |
Tell me the Citroën or Suplex part number (eg 75003) and I can tell you the pressure and volume (eg 75 Bar and 500ml). Suplex is a German sphere manufacturer for Citroën BTW. The bad news is that there is no Citroen sphere with a pressure in the range needed. The lowest pressure I know of in a Citi gas spring is 30 Bar on a Citroën BX 400ml sphere. Most are more than 40 Bar. You will need to lower the sphere pressure to around 18 Bar for it to work. No wonder your ride is appalling. With anything above 25 Bar you have no rear suspension at all. Overall this is just a very bad move and asking for lots of unnecessary trouble. Best take the spheres back and buy the proper ones. They are not expensive from a Crewe specialist, and it’s just not worth saving a few miserable Euro that you may realise if you are lucky with tweaked alternatives. Brabo is not far from you afterall. RT. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2715 Registered: 4-2003 |
Ps: if the Citi sphere is fitted with a damper valve, as the Ciroëns have in the gas spring spheres of Citis without the later Hydractive setup, then even with the correct sphere pressure the suspension would be very hard. Hydractive Citis have a damping arrangement more akin to our SZs; the damping is controlled in the valve body and not at the sphere outlet. Also, all Citis have a main accumulator sphere base pressure of 62 Bar almost identical to our cars. However, Citi gas spring spheres come in a wide range of pressures with many different damper valve characteristics. On top of that, there are four sizes of spheres – 375mL, 400ml, 450ml and 500ml. No wonder most Citi dealers don’t stock a full range of spheres. RT. | ||
| Michael Hicks Frequent User Username: bentleyman22 Post Number: 86 Registered: 12-2011 |
I have been reading the and wondering why the RR&B ones ant expensive and are available i have just replaced my Gas Springs and didn't even think of using something else as you never know if there is a problem some where else in the system | ||
| Paul Yorke Grand Master Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 889 Registered: 6-2006 |
argh . just lost my message. Hopefully it is just wrong gas springs. basically . . if you have trouble getting the correct ones , we can do them at £42.00 plus carriage and Vat . Check your acumulators while you are there. if you are not sure how, search facebook for Everythingrollsroyce for a video instruction. At least you haven't changed the springs and struts yet. You are not the first. I am sure you will not be the last! | ||
| Roderick Waite Frequent User Username: rodwaite Post Number: 74 Registered: 1-2012 |
Hello Ype - you've bought the wrong spheres. No point messing around with them. I bought a full set (spheres and accumulators from Paul (Yorke)at a modest cost, and the old cart ride was transformed into a Rolls Royce ride - worth every penny and you will bless the day (and Paul Yorke ... ) Rodr |
