| Author | Message | ||
     Chris Buckenham Experienced User Username: chris_buckenham Post Number: 20 Registered: 6-2012 |
Hello everybody , Can anyone tell me how to get the black plastic trim off around the headlamps . I can't see where it is explained in the workshop manual and I don't want to break it . One of the lamp units is broken and I need to change it . Thanks , Chris | ||
| Nigel Johnson Frequent User Username: nigel_johnson Post Number: 92 Registered: 12-2008 |
Hi Chris all the headlamp mountings are inside. I've just changed a couple of bulbs on my mates 1988 Spirit. It has the round headlamp conversion. I just can't remember which they are, old age perhaps. Regards, Nigel. | ||
| Chris Buckenham Experienced User Username: chris_buckenham Post Number: 21 Registered: 6-2012 |
Hello Nigel , Thanks for the reply , does that mean that the exterior plastic trim also unscrews from the inside ? Best regards Chris | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2698 Registered: 4-2003 |
Chris, These are of a particularly elegant arrangement and simple to remove. There are two hex head retaining setscrews underbonnet central behind each pair of headlamps. The hex portion is about 1 ˝ cm deep by something like 7mm A-F. See the diagramme below where the arrow points to one retainer. One is towards the top of the headlamp backing and the other to the bottom and complicated by the receiver-drier on the left hand side. They are an unusual size, but 7mm springs to mind. Don’t confuse them with the headlamp focus screws or the carrier retainer (a threaded rod with a hex nut screwed to it). Loosen them with a socket and they will turn by hand. Once unscrewed about 10 turns they will flop loose. The surround complete with sidelamps will come off then. It takes about 5 minutes a side. Refitting them can be fiddly if you drop the retaining setscrews. RT.  | ||
| Chris Buckenham Experienced User Username: chris_buckenham Post Number: 22 Registered: 6-2012 |
Richard , thank you for your reply . On another matter , We are having a bit of a testing time . Looks like both of the two replacement alternators supplied here in the UK are faulty . Neither producing an output . The supplier has told me that it has been known to happen . On the multipin connector that goes to tHe alternator on the engine wiring loom there are 4 pins from left to right P L F S . The Sense has a permanent 12 volts with the isolator in the on position , the F has 12 volts with the ignition on , the L has 6.5 volts on with the ignition in the on and engine running . We are a bit confused as to whether F or L supplies the field windings and if there is a thermistor that could be causing 6.5 volts on the L pin . Our electrical guru is on holiday this week . We are measuring 11.8 at the battery and the main output of the alternator with the engine off , 11.5 with engine running . The voltmeter displays the measured readings which I suppose is a good thing . The battery warning light has come on . If you or anybody else have any ideas they would be most welcome . Best regards Chris | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2701 Registered: 4-2003 |
Chris, This alternators, the Delco CS144, is extremely reliable and very simple. By the way, I would never repair one because a brand new one costs far less than the parts cost to overhaul one, at least in Australia (less than $300 including tax for a new one). PFLS on a Delco CS144 alternator as fitted to early turbocharged cars and to all cars from 1987 onwards: P: Pulse. a square wave 12V signal synchronous with the output frequency of the alternator stator. This can be used to measure the alternator speed or for an engine running sensor, but is not connected on your car. NOTE if an engine running sensor fails it is expensive, so this signal may be used for an inexpensive replacement !! F: Field. Connects to +12V switched by the ignition. L: Lamp. Connects to the LED display on cars from 1990 onwards. S: Sensor – connects to +12V, and is the voltage controlled by the regulator. The two critical wires are of course F and S. Continuity may be measured using a multimeter. RT. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2703 Registered: 4-2003 |
ps: see the wiring diagramme for your alternator at: www.rrtechnical.info/sz/30000/electrical/1997alternatorturbor.pdf | ||
| Chris Buckenham Experienced User Username: chris_buckenham Post Number: 23 Registered: 6-2012 |
Richard , thanks for the reply , that is the diagram that we have been referring to in the workshop manual . Your description is exactly as I understand it . Having read the earlier posts I took the view that buying a new cs144 would be the best option . We , and the supplier just cannot believe that we have had two faulty brand new units supplied . There are slight differences between the two . The first had a district "Chinese" look about it and the second has a proper INA bearing fitted at the back and what can be seen of the electrical components look of a much higher quality . Neither is actually marked up Delco Remy like the original . I did read last night that you actually need 12v to excite the alternator but we had that with the fully charged new battery to start with . The supplier suggested that I take some crocodile clips and give the S , F and L whilst all joined together a 12v shock to repolarise The unit , I think we might give this a go to see what happens . Regards Chris | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2705 Registered: 4-2003 |
Chris, Indeed, it is unusual to have a faulty new alternator let alone two in a row ! The last two new CS144s I bought came with test sheets and loading curves, so I had no reason evcn to consider that there could possibly be a fault. Strange too that one of yours had the inferior bearings. By all means hit the S and F terminaks with 12V battery, However, I would keep clear of the L terminal. Although probably safe against 12V, the L terminal is a low impedance output signal and not an input like S and F. L may be protected against grounding or connecting to 12V, but why tempt fate ? I have my doubts about the polarising theory. After all, by connecting the battery directly to S and F you are simply bypassing the normal convoluted wiring which should do the same thing with the ignition turned on. Most importantly, connecting S and F to 12V will help diagnose an electrical or general wiring defect in the looms, plug or elsewhere. RT. | ||
| Chris Buckenham Experienced User Username: chris_buckenham Post Number: 24 Registered: 6-2012 |
Richard , your help is most welcome on this . The first unit did have the very detailed test sheet with it . The second did not . We will have a go at F and S this morning . Best regards Chris | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2706 Registered: 4-2003 |
Just a thought: have you checked or jockeyed Ignition Relay 1 which supplies the field supply to F ? RT. | ||
| Nigel Johnson Frequent User Username: nigel_johnson Post Number: 95 Registered: 12-2008 |
Hi Richard.Does the engine running sensor work the speedo on a 1988 Spirit? Regards, Nigel. | ||
| Chris Buckenham Experienced User Username: chris_buckenham Post Number: 25 Registered: 6-2012 |
Richard , What I can say is that we have 12v at both F and S when the ignition is on . Second alternator has now been tested by the local auto electric people on their test set and confirmed as faulty . I was quite surprised to hear that they had telephoned my supplier (who is also their supplier) to discuss the general situation and the fault and concluded that there must be something wrong with the car that is "blowing up the alternators". When I repeated that I had taken off a perfectly good functioning unit with noisy bearings as a Pre winter precaution so as to ensure that I didn't get caught out and that there was a multi pin plug involved so incorrect connection were out of the question it was then agreed that this did suggest that the alternators were faulty . Do you think that there is any way the car can blow up the units? The wiring all tests out correctly from what we can see . Your opinion on the matter would be helpful . Best regards Chris. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2707 Registered: 4-2003 |
Nigel, the speedometer is independent of the engine running sensor on your car. It is activated by the ignition switch and attains the speed pulses from the transmitter on the transmission. Chris, I agree that it is highly unlikely that the car is “blowing up alternators”. These alternators are short-circuit protected and pretty bulletproof in any case. Were there a short circuit in the F or S lines, then fuses would blow. A short on the main +12V would cause an engine loom fire before damaging the alternator. Could the supplier be more specific on the failures ? Just saying that the alternator is dud doesn’t say much. Diode bridge ? Regulator ? Stator winding ? Rotor winding ? RT. | ||
| Chris Buckenham Experienced User Username: chris_buckenham Post Number: 26 Registered: 6-2012 |
Richard , no specifics give at all , just not working . They don't like it when you start using technical terms or asking questions , they prefer to try to tell you the way this it is . They are handy because they have agood Bosch test set but myexperience is that they are not to keen on the customer that knows a little about the subject . You have confirmed my reading of the wiring diagram , I struggle to see how the car would be blowing up alternators . Last night I read some really detailed explanations ont he web about the operation of this particular alternator and I think that it only really needs F connected and without S goes into a local sense mode as if it were a one wire model . However this is so tedious , I should not have bothered to touch the thing in the first instance the bearings were not that noisy . Best regards , Chris | ||
| Nigel Johnson Frequent User Username: nigel_johnson Post Number: 96 Registered: 12-2008 |
Thanks Richard,the speedo is reading slow. I was hoping I could get round the transmission sensor with the engine running sensor, but if that is not the case, so be it. Regards, Nigel. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2708 Registered: 4-2003 |
Nigel, If it's the speed sender on the transmission that is faulty, you may repair it if you are familiar with a soldering iron and transistors. I may have written it up before somewhere, but if not feel free to contact me. The P terminal on the alternator gives a signal proportional to engine speed and would send your speedo silly given gearchanges and torque converter multiplications. Even if you wanted engine speed for the tacho it is best taken from the ignition as on Bentleys (forgeting early cars and some Corniches with mechanical tachos) and almost all other cars. RT. | ||
| Nigel Johnson Frequent User Username: nigel_johnson Post Number: 97 Registered: 12-2008 |
Thanks for the very kind offer Richard. The penny has dropped now. Engine speed as opposed to road speed. The car belongs to a friend of mine. I'm doing some other work on it shortly and will investigate then. Regards, Nigel. |
