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Roderick Waite
Frequent User
Username: rodwaite

Post Number: 57
Registered: 1-2012
Posted on Tuesday, 14 August, 2012 - 07:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Two years ago, I replaced the viscous fan drive on my 1984 Spirit, one of the reasons (given on this forum) being that when the engine stopped, the fan spun on for half a dozen revs instead of stopping almost immediately.

Well, I've had trials and tribulations for a whole year, now resolved, and the engine does not overheat (the needle settles just above the horizontal) - but when the engine stops, the fan runs on for about half a dozen revolutions ...

In the absence of any other symptom, is this to be taken seriously?

Stay well

Rod Waite
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Michael Hicks
Frequent User
Username: bentleyman22

Post Number: 59
Registered: 12-2011
Posted on Tuesday, 14 August, 2012 - 07:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Get rid of it and put a Kenlow on no more problems and save fuel and get 10 bhp
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PETER DIXON
Frequent User
Username: petenlinid

Post Number: 74
Registered: 8-2003
Posted on Tuesday, 14 August, 2012 - 07:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Having just replaced my viscous coupling, I am once again obliged to display my mechanical ignorance and ask, what is a Kenlow?

Thanks
Peter
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Michael Hicks
Frequent User
Username: bentleyman22

Post Number: 60
Registered: 12-2011
Posted on Tuesday, 14 August, 2012 - 07:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

it is a Electric Fan Kit and it fits on the rad it all so has a Manuel control so you can set it at what temp you want and all so it will stay on till the Engine cools down
I have them on all my cars and don't have any problems with cars getting HOT
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 2664
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Tuesday, 14 August, 2012 - 11:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP


quote:

it is a Electric Fan Kit and it fits on the rad it all so has a Manuel control so you can set it at what temp you want and all so it will stay on till the Engine cools down
I have them on all my cars and don't have any problems with cars getting HOT



Since when did any car from Crewe have an overheating issue unless something was amiss ? I am coming from ambients typically 30C and up to 40+ here and four Crewe cars from 1954 to 1993 with a combined million and a half kilometers travelled. Even at -25C ambient the last thing to do was to control the engine temperature manually. As for the 10HP, well, no. The original electric fans on the car mentioned are excellent, and those Kenlowe jobs will not fit such a car anyhow unless you rip out the superior original electric ones. Manual control of engine temperature ????

RT.
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Michael Hicks
Frequent User
Username: bentleyman22

Post Number: 61
Registered: 12-2011
Posted on Wednesday, 15 August, 2012 - 01:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Sorry i must be talking about a diffident car
Yes a Bentley Turbo RT this car has had one fitted
And My Top Hat all so Has one and my V12 my Aston has a kenlow fitted from factory !!!!!!1
with no cutting bogging all i had to do is remove the existing fan didn't have to cut any wiring or make any extra brackets (had to drill one hole)
the original fan is a viscous and the Electric one inside the grill is for Air conditioning
As for the Kenlow wiring this is of far better quality than RR & B
As your making daft comments I assume your not very good with Engineering and how these car parts are sourced from
It mite be a good idea to pop the bonnet and have a look you mite be surprised where lots of them come from and then get put in a nice Black box

Moderator's Comment: The final paragraph in this post is not of the standard desired in this forum however I will not edit it to allow others to make their own judgement. The author may regret these comments after considering the following facts - the member subject to this comment is an qualified Electrical Engineer with extensive experience of Rolls-Royce/Bentley electrical systems gained over the years from his ownership of several R-R/B vehicles and working with other members of this forum to sort out problems with their vehicles. You only need to look at the recent contributions by Richard relating to rectification of malfunctioning turbo boost management systems to see the extent and depth of his knowledge. I suggest an apology for the incorrect and unjustified denigration would be in order.
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Mark Aldridge
Frequent User
Username: mark_aldridge

Post Number: 78
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Wednesday, 15 August, 2012 - 06:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Rod, as long as the temperature remains constant and does not creep up at idle or speed, I would not be concerned.
As far as electric fans are concerned, I have never had the fan on my Bentley 8 or Spirit ever cut in. I do wire them to make them come on to check them at service time. I fitted a Kenlowe to my S1 in addition to its mechanical fan ,set to come in at 85 c, and it never comes on.
Richard, does the oil cooler fitted to post 1987 non turbo cars really serve a useful purpose? The pre 1987 cars seem OK without it.
Mark
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Michael Hicks
Frequent User
Username: bentleyman22

Post Number: 62
Registered: 12-2011
Posted on Wednesday, 15 August, 2012 - 07:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

thank you for informing me that he is Qualified in Electronics and i will respect him for that but if you read whet he has put then you will see he is not correct i am not time served on RR & B but i am on Jaguar & Aston martin so please think before your judge and kenlow are a world wide company
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Chris Browne
Frequent User
Username: chrisb

Post Number: 90
Registered: 2-2010
Posted on Wednesday, 15 August, 2012 - 07:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Dear all,

It seems to have happened again.

I am an avid reader of and occasional contributor to several RR & B forums. Every now again, a post (or posts) appears on a forum from someone who simply does not understand what these forums are about. It is so very easy to be self opinionated,as well as rude and critical of other valued contributors from the privacy and safety of a computer keyboard. I think the moderators comments are spot on and the decision to leave the offending post on the forum for the vast majority of right minded contributors to make up their own minds about is a good thing. I think an apology to RT is in order but I won't hold my breath.

Kind regards,

Chris Browne
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Michael Hicks
Frequent User
Username: bentleyman22

Post Number: 63
Registered: 12-2011
Posted on Wednesday, 15 August, 2012 - 07:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

thank you Chris can you explain why i should apologise for speaking what is correct i haven't abused your friend ?
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Chris Browne
Frequent User
Username: chrisb

Post Number: 91
Registered: 2-2010
Posted on Wednesday, 15 August, 2012 - 08:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I have nothing further to add but please see moderators comments.

Kind regards,

Chris Browne
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 2666
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Wednesday, 15 August, 2012 - 10:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Mark,

Concerning the oil cooler, it is conjecture as to whether it serves any real purpose other than in extreme conditions on a Crewe V8. Certainly, the oil temperature gauge on my Continental R, with its sender checked, never moves above cold (as observed by another certain contributor who will replace his by a boost gauge).

On my Turbo R I can see it kick in at times when driving fast in summer: the gauge drops a very slight amount (maybe 1mm) as the oil temperature thermostat opens and pops up again when it closes.. It kicks out a minute after kicking in every time in the worst conditions, belting up a mountain in 38+C heat (many will know the Clyde) so it’s not working hard at all. It’s a nice-to-have item, but earlier cars without an oil cooler (like our T-Series) never suffered, and the turbocharger doesn’t exactly stress the motors. I replaced the cooler and hoses on the Turbo R earlier this year due to the hoses looking a bit tatty, but was quite honestly tempted to delete it all.

However, when you look at it all, most manufacturers, Crewe included, do not spend money on oil coolers, thermostats, viscous couplings and electric fans all at the same time for nothing, even though their duty is very low indeed. Mostly the viscous coupling is freewheeling, and the electric fans only come on when the refrigeration is working hard or when stopped with an unusual amount of heat soak after a very hard run. That’s a good thing, as electric fans when running above about 40km/h actually restrict air flow: they run at a fixed speed when engaged and act as a barrier to fast-flowing air, whereas when freewheeling they just spin to synch with the air flow.

RT.
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Paul Yorke
Grand Master
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 852
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Wednesday, 15 August, 2012 - 06:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Roderick, The viscus will freewheel to some extent when the air passing through the radiator is still not hot enough to lock it up. They only come into play when sitting in traffic, moving slowly, or the car is standing still.

Whilst the car is moving there is usually enough airflow from the naturally forced air coming through the grill.

To check the viscous leave your car idling after a fast/hard drive and then check it after a few minutes. Alternative cover the grill with some plastic sheeting for a few minutes whilst watching the temperature gauge.You should hear the viscus 'tightening up' and making more noise as it attempts to pull extra air through the radiator. Turn it off then and it should stop sooner.

As long as your temperature does not raise when standing still and the electric fans do not cut in , you are usually fine.

Make sure the radiator and A/C fins are clear and allowing air to flow freely. You'd be surprised at how many insects, birds, and bats can get lodged in there!
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Lluís Gimeno-Fabra
Prolific User
Username: lluís

Post Number: 260
Registered: 8-2007
Posted on Wednesday, 15 August, 2012 - 06:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hoi,

This is the contributor who is replacing his oil temps gauge with a boost gauge, c'est moi. Indeed the first two years with my car I thought that the oil temp gauge was broken, as it never moves. A drive through the Alps in summer (going to Garmisch in two weeks) may have it lazily move, just a tiny little bit.
On the other hand Mr. Shams from the Gulf, also a forum member, is enjoying a summer at 56°C, maybe this is what Crewe has in mind with that cooler?

I have my own opinion about fans and things electric... My experience is that the original Bentley set up works fine, but I must say that still now I get a drop of sweat finding a traffic jam after a long drive in summer (be it at 130 in France or at 230 in Germany) as it will make the gauge climb until a couple of mm short of the "hot" area when the twin electric fans cut in and then indeed they do cool the thing fast, my thermostat is serviced and genuine Bentley, so I assume this is normal.

I guess that a huge Kenlowe in place of the equally huge viscofan and also an electric water pump would keep things steady as long as the kick-in temperature was low enough, but I would be really worried about the alternator in a 2 hour summer jam with Airco on. A nice quiet idle with nothing moving in front of the engine might be a plus, but (in my Jaguar I have twin kenlowes, their sound is rather annoying when they do kick in, more so for a cabrio-.

By the way, I have had in my two Jaguars a noisy visco drive failure, at 150 and 250K and this simply attaches welds solid the fan to the drive, unless you are terribly unlucky with this happening at high revs, nothing will break (like blades) and you still have full cooling to complete your holiday, cometh what cometh, just a noisier drive and a precaution limit to say 2500rpm, so it is a very very reliable system.

Lluís
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Lluís Gimeno-Fabra
Prolific User
Username: lluís

Post Number: 261
Registered: 8-2007
Posted on Wednesday, 15 August, 2012 - 06:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Oh Roderick excuse me... you did ask a question.

My visco clutch was replaced at 35000 miles. Now I have 53000 miles (bought it at 24000, time flies eh?)

I am quite sure that at mild temperatures it also spins for half a dozen times, but when things get hot, it really attaches rather well to the shaft.

Lluís
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Michael Hicks
Frequent User
Username: bentleyman22

Post Number: 64
Registered: 12-2011
Posted on Wednesday, 15 August, 2012 - 08:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The Kenlowe company pioneered thermo electric engine cooling over 40 years ago and the principles have proved so successful that over 85% of the world's cars produced annually adopt this concept. Today Kenlowe produce the widest range of thermo electric fans, engine pre-heating, oil cooling, and heating / ventilation / extraction systems ensuring that Kenlowe remain at the forefront of air movement and temperature control. Kenlowe supply original equipment car manufacturers with fans and all the Formula 1 teams with pre-heating systems.

HISTORY OF INNOVATION
1956 Kenlowe pioneered thermo electric engine cooling fans world wide and today around 80% of all cars on the worlds roads use the Kenlowe fan concept as standard equipment achieving a saving in fuel of around 8% p.a. globally and a corresponding reduction in emission of ozone damaging hydrocarbon pollution!

1958 Sealed cooling systems - the forerunner of the coolant expansion catch tanks system adopted

1966 Liquid to liquid oil to water 'oil cooling' system - a concept adopted throughout the world today for automatic transmission cooling!

1967 Air blast 'fan assisted' heat exchanger range adopted for hydraulic oil cooling systems.

1969 Flat/low profile permanent magnet motor for space saving application. 1970 One piece plastic multi-blade axial fan with integral ring duct for improving efficiency.

1974 Electric contact less ignition system - featuring magnetic reed switching system as featured on BBC 1

1977 Hydraulic motor driven engine cooling axial fan system.

1986 Pump assisted mains engine/interior preheating system.

1992 Automatic transmission oil to air secondary oil cooling.

1995 Engine pre-heating systems for competition/race cars.

1997 Formula One teams use the Kenlowe pre-heating system - on world champion winning cars from 1995 to date.

2000 New generation of advanced fans, pre-heating, oil cooling, heating, ventilation and extraction systems.
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Michael Hicks
Frequent User
Username: bentleyman22

Post Number: 65
Registered: 12-2011
Posted on Wednesday, 15 August, 2012 - 09:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

http://www.kenlowe.com/fans/consumers/fans04.html
Before you
Start criticising me again please listen to what I have to say
I drive my Bentley every day and all so take it on Holidays to the South of France (it gets hot there)
The drive is 950 Miles I do this with one stop in Paris and then all the way just getting Fuel with a standard Fan when you stop all the heat under the bonnet just gets hotter and hotter all the pipes and electrical wiring do the same
Just think of blowing air over them all and helping to keep the coolant stable it the radiator is this stupid?
As for battery’s going flat I haven’t had this problem
The amount of sound coming from the fan isn’t as bad as the old ones
I have driven 1000’s of miles in Europe over the years and no problems so far
Considering I have had the V12 Jag from New (1988) and the Fans have been on from (1992) before this I was having problems with heat and losing oil presser having to tow and heal to keep the revs up
The fans went on and oil presser stays up and no problems the car has done 120000m and never had a problem and if you look at modern Jaguars they have Electric fans
Also think of the water pump bearing with the fan and viscose puling on the bearing
Only had one water pump on the Jag and that was the seal leaking
My Top Hat that when taken in to town would get hot not because the was Engine problems but she was built in the 30’s and didn’t have traffic problems the kenlow keeps it cool so we can use it go shopping Is this wrong (Bentley Derby Top Hat Saloon 1936)
I didn’t swear at RT all I did was make a comment if this forum is only for resident members ok just say so and I will go back to the Bentley Drivers Club
And RR&B Forum at least you can have a discussion on there
Michael
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James Feller
Prolific User
Username: james_feller

Post Number: 215
Registered: 5-2008
Posted on Wednesday, 15 August, 2012 - 10:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I cannot help myself....

This seems to have strayed extensively off topic to almost an advertorial on Kenlowe fans. Im sure they are fine as items used.
However back to Rods initially enquiry if hes not to terrified to come back to us!!! lol!

Rod, while RT and others have given you sensible advice, I'm a layman here but have replaced both the visco units in my 86 Spirit and 89 Turbo. Both sourced from Flying Spares. I believe you may actually be quoting me from many years back when I did put a thread on here about 'when should you change them'...in the case of my Spirit my visco was very weak in that it would would spin many times about 6-8 revolutions after stopping the motor and it would not lock up well when motor hot. Meaning you could not hear the 'roar' if you like to indicate it was pulling air in. The thermo fans helped it but frankly it was buggered and I did notice the temp guauge used to creep a little too high in hot temps for my liking. So I ordered a new one and to date never been a problem. I think it spins 2-3 times once motor stops. Car stays mid range on guage with the thermos cycling as required mostly as RT says for helping the AC system.

Conversly the visco unit on my Turbo did the opposite and seized completely ON so in fact it was like a huge propellor and made a hell of a roar as you would imagine!!! This I replaced too as the car sounded like Concorde on take off!!!

if in doubt.... test it Rod, it should have good resistance and NOT free spin in the shroud.

As I said i got my replacements from Flying SPares but any number of suppliers have them they are not expensive or unique to Crewe cars.

J
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Paul Yorke
Grand Master
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 853
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Wednesday, 15 August, 2012 - 11:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

James is right I think :-) Time for a cup of tea perhaps?

I think originally RT may have grabbed the wrong end of the stick and wrongly assumed MH meant fit a Kenlowe as an auxiliary fan and had a rant about something MH wasn't even suggesting.

:-(

I think MH actually suggested getting rid of the engine fan and replace it with a Kenlowe on the engine side of the rad instead. A valid and simple modification that would do the job and be tempting, especially if you believe all that Kenlowe say, but personally I'd say it was unnecessary and prefer to keep the cars original in this respect.

Kenlowes - Great items but I wouldn't bother fitting them to replace a viscus on a RR&B car as they do their intended job perfectly well.

I'd agree that they would be useful where our cars are stuck in traffic all day - Hong Kong etc - where the Kenlowe can be rigged with a second temperature sensor to monitor engine bay temperature and keep that cool where the engine fan will not keep up at idle.

I don't think anybody would argue that Kenlowes are bad per se and they are certainly a great boon (and a saviour) to many under cooled cars.


RT says: . . . .That�s a good thing, as electric fans when running above about 40km/h actually restrict air flow: they run at a fixed speed when engaged and act as a barrier to fast-flowing air, whereas when freewheeling they just spin to synch with the air flow.

Is this correct? I thought a fan in a vacuum or with air been forced through it would spin much faster than in still air? Possibly restrictive if the motor couldn't keep up and starts acting as a wind generator but I believe that Kenlowes won't do this.
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richard george yeaman
Experienced User
Username: richyrich

Post Number: 49
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Thursday, 16 August, 2012 - 01:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hello All.

Have been reading these posts with growing interest and have noticed the words temperature gauges and oil cooler gauges mentioned as I own a Silver Shadow 1 it dosent have either of these which makes me wonder should i have my viscus drive replaced or should i be thinking about replacing it with a Kenlow and if so where would it be fitted, At least I would hear it and know all is well.

Stay Safe and Healthy.

Richard.
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Mark Aldridge
Frequent User
Username: mark_aldridge

Post Number: 79
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Thursday, 16 August, 2012 - 06:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Richard , thanks for the info, I hadnt realised the oil cooler was thermostatic controlled and therefore in the UK climate does very little work.I presume this is part no.UE44162 http://rrtechnical.info/sz/tsd6167/8089_4/IMAGES/E/E08.pdf
Mark
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richard george yeaman
Experienced User
Username: richyrich

Post Number: 50
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Thursday, 16 August, 2012 - 08:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Mark.

I hope i havent mislead you into thinking i know anything about oil cooler gauges my shadow dosent have any heat related gauges at all, SCARY stuff it was M.T.and Lluis that mentioned oil temperature gauges in earlyer posts.
any advice on my previous post would be appreciated.

Richard.
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Peter Talbot
Prolific User
Username: squerryes

Post Number: 128
Registered: 7-2010
Posted on Thursday, 16 August, 2012 - 08:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I have found it a priviledge to play a very small part in a community of internet friends with a common interest and purpose.

Please can we get back to topic and cease all personal issues.

Peter
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 2667
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Thursday, 16 August, 2012 - 10:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Mark,

Yes, that is the engine oil thermostat. It switches in and out in a narrow temperature band. I have never heard of any problems with one.

RT.
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Peter Talbot
Prolific User
Username: squerryes

Post Number: 130
Registered: 7-2010
Posted on Thursday, 16 August, 2012 - 10:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

It's coming up to 1.50 am on Thursday 16th August here in the UK - Sue thinks I'm going gaga but I can't get to sleep when I've got something on my mind - I've just now finished.

I took Paul's point about ensuring free airflow so decided to check out my 1986 Spirit radiator -top R, top L, Centre, bottom R, bottom R, using a field anemometer postioned at the various points on the distal side and a heavy duty leaf blower on the proximal side to mimic air flow - not the ideal tools for the job but all I had available. Evident from variable anemometer readings that all was not well.

Blasted both the proximal and distal sides of the radiator with a high pressure air line - lots of muck (leaves, insects, etc.) expelled.

Re-tested air flows - all anemometer readings now within 5% of each other.

Thanks Paul

Peter
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 2668
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Thursday, 16 August, 2012 - 11:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Paul,

To explain, the motors in electric fans, and there are any number of brands from Bosch to Nippondenso, have fixed-speed permanent-magnet motors (equivalent to a DC shunt motor). If pumping air they use energy, and as you point out actually regenerate energy when having air forced past the blades at a higher rate than the fan speed allows. Indeed, like a wind farm. So, apart from leakage, on regeneration the fan will slow the air to the fans speed within a few percent. It's of no consequence I am sure.

You have already addressed the original question concerning the health of the viscous coupling. So long as the engine cools properly and quietly, who gives a toss whether the fan is electric or driven by the viscous coupling ?

RT.
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Roderick Waite
Frequent User
Username: rodwaite

Post Number: 58
Registered: 1-2012
Posted on Friday, 17 August, 2012 - 07:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hello all, and I say, steady on, chaps! I've read everything and greatly appreciate the comments and ideas put forward, but am sorry to have created a touch of warmth in the proceedings!

Whereas I see Michael's point (I hear it a lot from Mac users if I bitch about my PC!) I am unwilling to compromise Echo's originality by fitting a non-OEM part. Peter's discovery gave me pause for thought, and I will indeed crank up the old Atco and give the radiator a good pasting tomorrow! Thanks Peter!

I have had no over-heating probs, and two days ago I wound her up to 80mph in 36C ambient, and the needle stayed just above the horizontal, where it also remained when I let her idle at the end of the run. I don't hear any fan noise at all. So I think I'll leave well alone, as indicated by wiser heads than mine!

Incidentally, having replaced the 4 gas spheres, I am amazed at the difference in ride quality. She's a perfect lady to drive now - and I did get them the right way round, thanks Paul!

My thanks to all - can't tell you how reassuring it is to have such a knowledgeable crew around!

Stay well

Rod
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James Feller
Prolific User
Username: james_feller

Post Number: 216
Registered: 5-2008
Posted on Friday, 17 August, 2012 - 08:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

80 mph??? hell look out.....lol. I must admit my spirit never liked much more than the tonne either (160klms) I pushed her to 180klms a few times and frankly it was scary....steering waaaaay to light and suspension far to mushy....now Rod Im converted, the Turbo R's are the way to go!!! immensely powerful, immensly fast and they handle, for a 2.5 tonne car, very well. Drive a good one and a promise you will never drive a mushy Spirit in the same way again. Dont get me wrong I think a Spirit is a very elegant car to look at and drive about town in but nothing like a Turbo hunting down an autobahn....blimey they are good!!! im a little biased as I have both to choose from but favour the Turbo without doubt as a terrific drivers car!!

id agree and keep her original as possible!

happy motoring

J
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Roderick Waite
Frequent User
Username: rodwaite

Post Number: 59
Registered: 1-2012
Posted on Friday, 17 August, 2012 - 05:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Now now James, you mustn't wind me up! I was quite set on a 'pigeon pair' and buying an '84 Mulsanne to go with Echo. Only I have a thing called a 'wife' who pulls me back to Earth if things get too scary. Although June would prefer a Bentley, it's got to be one or the other ... sigh! I'm too infatuated with the Flying Lady (who, incidentally, is quite a good bug deflector above about 50mph) to abandon her altogether ...

Stay well

Rod
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Peter Talbot
Prolific User
Username: squerryes

Post Number: 132
Registered: 7-2010
Posted on Sunday, 19 August, 2012 - 08:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

James

I think it's also about "horses for courses".

Here in the UK, with a maximum 70mph speed limit on motorways, speed cameras with automatic number plate recognition everywhere, a there is little point in having a Turbo R unless you want to incurr fixed penalty fines, points on your driving licence leading to insurance premium increases, or even licence disqualification.

A while back, having had my 1986 Spirit brought back to absolute A1 mechanical condition, I thought I'd try it out.

Having access to a long airport runway, D41FUL recorded a speed (over a measured mile) of 134.61 mph. Yes, the steering was rather light but, as I was only going in a straight line, this was of little concern.

To test out the totally replaced suspension, I took D41FUL round the undulating and curving several miles of access routes of a local sandpit quarry at speeds between 60 and 100 mph. Mushy suspension - just a bit but it was great fun and I didn't roll the car (well, maybe nearly).

Peter
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James Feller
Prolific User
Username: james_feller

Post Number: 217
Registered: 5-2008
Posted on Sunday, 19 August, 2012 - 02:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Rod as I dont have a wife or kids to drain me, I can crow a bit I suppose. I neither want a wife or kids either to be honest. Very happy being an uncle!
Now as for a pidgeon pair...I want a 95-96 Azure soon. The fabulous Continental Turbo or its sister car the Corniche S about 94-95 I think, didnt come to Aus and were built in such low numbers that ive only seen 1 Corniche S and that was in Berlin (both had the Turbo R drive train and suspension so it went and handled like a Turbo R but had those gorgeous and sublime looks of the Corniche i so love.... I've driven a few lovely 80's Corniches here in Aus but alas they never lived up to expectations or looks....scuttle shake was abysmal, handling very mushy, cabin would you beleive I always felt a bit cramed in a 17 foot long car!!! and well the performance was totally mediocre at BEST...
However for a reasonable amount of money I can buy a good Azure giving me open top motoring with the punch of the fabo Bentley Turbo motor 400Bhp I believe.
Hey Peter, I take your point and wholeheartedly agree! however while your motorway speed limits are 70mph you know as well as I that NOBODY actually sticks to them. Everytime im in the UK or Europe, but mostly UK, 90mph seems to be the accepted cruising speed most people do in all sorts of cars. I confess yes that I drive fast and have had demerit points issued for 'speeding' in this counrty. Aus by comparision is hopeless with its motorways and I so miss the motorway network of europe when im driving in this country. Its my firm belief that you all are far better drivers and far more courteous than us Aussies, and while you may drive a lot quicker than us I always feel much safer on your roads than Australian motorways. Australians are possible the worst drivers, with exection to our asian neighbours, in the world. Most Aussies seem to think the 'slower' you drive and in any lane mind you, you are thus being a safe driver.... It infuriates me on our motorways that the average plod not only doesnt do the speed limit 110klms, they tend to sit in the fast lanes with an attitude almost as if 'I dont care whos behind me, who they are holding up and stuff you, this is my lane and be buggered if Im moving over'....This is where a Turbo R or my Range Rover does come in handy....if you get my drift....its quite a sight I can assure you of a Turbo R storming up behind some moron dribbling along in the fast lane...and yes more ofen than not they do shift over.....ohhh we Austrlains have to be the most inconsiderate selfish communistic bastards on the road....ok ill get off my soapbox now.
Thats why I love Europe and UK, your roadmanners are far better and thus owning cars that are both mechanically sound and speaking of crewe cars, you can really explore their potential, are useable to their designed potential. Dont get me wrong, Im not advocating excessive speeding is safe or cruising at 100mph is for everyone, all I want is courtesy on the road and for goodness sake keep left unless overtaking,
My Spirit to is an A1 car but frankly anything over 120klms in it and I find it a bit disconcerting, its mushy, the steering is far to light and as for a camber on the road thats not correct, well I sure most would be aware you heart is in your mouth....conversly around town thats where the Spirit is lovely! sublime comfort and virtually silent and serene, wafting around. However the Bentleys are far better and much more sorted highway cruisers in my opinion. Sorry Peter, but if you see me in the fast lane in the Turbo, its my terrible lead foot not the car thats the problem....

:-)

J
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Roderick Waite
Frequent User
Username: rodwaite

Post Number: 61
Registered: 1-2012
Posted on Sunday, 19 August, 2012 - 05:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hello James, I see you like the idea of a pigeon pair too! Suitably wifelessly exotic! In France we have an autoroute speed limit of 130kph (80mph) and I confess Echo is perfectly happy at that, but she has an innate resistance to going much faster. I've never touched 100mph, and am unlikely to now!

My perfect Bentley would be an early '30s blown four and a quarter. Indeed, discussing the recent huge Lottery win of £148.6 million in the UK, if money were no object I'd buy one and have both it and Echo restored to 'as new' condition, using the original parts wherever possible. Dreams, eh?

I am in the process of trying to join a group of mostly Brit classic car owners with some very exotic machinery! A Lamborghini, Pontiac GTO, Alfa Romeo Spider, Porsche Boxster, a very rare MGC, Volvo Sport, several Morgan Plus 4s ... I only hope I can keep up on their outings ... but I take heart that at the meets, Echo is the one that gets photographed the most!

Stay well

Rod
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Lluís Gimeno-Fabra
Prolific User
Username: lluís

Post Number: 268
Registered: 8-2007
Posted on Monday, 20 August, 2012 - 06:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Roderick,

Where are you (plus ou moins) located in France?

I am regularly there... but it's rather big.

Lluís
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Roderick Waite
Frequent User
Username: rodwaite

Post Number: 62
Registered: 1-2012
Posted on Tuesday, 21 August, 2012 - 07:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hello Lluis, my postcode is 16460, the department of La Charente in Western France - not far off the RN10 north of Angouleme. Always a pot or a glass for passers-by!

Cheers

Rod
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Duane Ridenour
New User
Username: kg4ibj

Post Number: 2
Registered: 12-2013
Posted on Friday, 21 February, 2014 - 07:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

For those who replaced their viscous fan drive on their Silver Spirit/Spurs, I would like to know the part number you purchased. I have a 1986 Spur (GCX14318) and having trouble finding a replacement. I'm told a replacement for a 1994 Land Rover Defender 90 will work, any thoughts?

I'd rather buy in the US to get her back on the road.

Thanks, Duane
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 2991
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Friday, 21 February, 2014 - 08:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

You need a UE43652 coupling and availability is no issue at all. I see that you are in Texas, so probably your Zionsville supplier is convenient.

The Land Rover unit that you mention is not for you. It physically fits 1987+ 20k cars but is not satisfactory on those cars by the way and cost more than the correct part in any case. The couplings out there have various characteristics, and fitting a substitute is hit-and-miss. Most Land Rover units are rated Heavy Duty and make the thing howl like an old 747 Jumbo on takeoff.

RT.
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Larry Halpert
Prolific User
Username: larry_halpert

Post Number: 136
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Friday, 21 February, 2014 - 09:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

My Land Rover OE part# ERR2266 cost me $119, and doesn't howl on my '89 Spur. The car runs mid-level cool, and the dealer price in the states was over $240 at that time, so much more expensive.
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 2992
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Saturday, 22 February, 2014 - 11:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Indeed, Larry, L-R part ERR2266 fits and works after a fashion on SZ cars from 1987 onwards, Arnage R and later included.

The earlier car in question requires a different coupling however.

For 1987+ SZs, couplings marked as ERR2266 can be bought for anything from US$40 to US$500 but there are quality and rating differences. Google ERR2266 and you will see. Changing the fan threads to metric is only a little inconvenient as just four new bolts are required to fit the ERR2266 to SZ cars from 1987 to 1990.

The couplings are all over the place as replacements for BMW Turbodiesel-powered Land Rover applications. Risky on an SZ too. If you fit a ERR2266 Heavy Duty it will howl all the time. Cheap ones may be long-lived or not. The couplings from the regular Crewe suppliers are reasonably priced at a tank of fuel ($150) and are usually guaranteed for at least two years.

RT
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Larry Halpert
Prolific User
Username: larry_halpert

Post Number: 137
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Sunday, 23 February, 2014 - 12:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

When I bought mine a few years ago here in the states, I couldn't find any authentic Crewe fan clutches here for less than $240 US.

Where is it available for $150?

Thanks,

Larry
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 2993
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Sunday, 23 February, 2014 - 02:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Try this one for £30 the UK. I haven't looked hard as this was the first to come up when I googled ERR2266 just now. Who knows, it may de fine. An OEM one in Australia retails for a little over A$300.

http://www.paddockspares.com/err2266-viscous-unit-300tdi.html

When I last looked in the UK about 2 years ago I found them at many L-R shops for £25 upwards. I bought one for £50 but have not tried it as the bimetallic control coil is rather large. That indicates a noisy heavy duty type.

RT.
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Larry Halpert
Prolific User
Username: larry_halpert

Post Number: 139
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Sunday, 23 February, 2014 - 04:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Richard,

Thanks for that info. I was actually hoping you were referring to the original crewe part going for $150, and whether you might have heard of a place in the USA at that price. Zionsville/Albers is proudly much more expensive.

So far my replacement from a few years ago seems to still be working, though I don't put much mileage on the car.

Also, you mentioned a large bimetallic spring. Here's a pic with both of them together (OEM & ERR2266). The spring actually seems larger on the OEM unit. Also, I wonder what the 8435 & 9536 numbers mean..:

- LarryERR2266 & UE46114
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 2994
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Sunday, 23 February, 2014 - 10:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Interesting, because to the left is the original from my Turbo R with the correct small coil. To the right is the new unused ERR2266 I bought two years ago but declined to use at is of the Heavy Duty type with the large coil.

Then below is the latest offering from Crewe that I have, manufactured in mid-2013.

They are all the same but different. Pity that they don't all behave in quite that same way.

RT.
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Larry Halpert
Prolific User
Username: larry_halpert

Post Number: 140
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Monday, 24 February, 2014 - 10:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Based on the casting design, and the "AM" part number printed on there - the Genuine Rolls Royce/Bentley Crewe viscous coupling looks like it is now an AllMakes 4x4/Britpart unit. They also print the land rover part numbers on their units as the currently available OEM supplier.

I guess that's why the AllMakes ERR2266 photo I posted above, and your Genuine Crewe photo look like the same fan clutch.

- Larry
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Duane Ridenour
New User
Username: kg4ibj

Post Number: 7
Registered: 12-2013
Posted on Wednesday, 26 February, 2014 - 03:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

This weekend I replaced my fan clutch / viscous coupling on my 86 Silver Spur (GCX14318). I purchased from AutoZone a TorqFlo #922303 which fit perfectly. No modification to the metal fan or anything else. The rattle and wobble are gone.
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Larry Halpert
Prolific User
Username: larry_halpert

Post Number: 141
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Wednesday, 26 February, 2014 - 11:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Great piece of tested specific info, Duane. I'll match it with specific Rolls part number fitting GCX14318, and put it on my site.

Autozone lists that as fitting the V-8 for the '87-'92 Range Rover, and '93-'95 Range Rover County. At $65.99.

- Larry
http://mutley.hypermart.net/RollsSubstituteParts.html
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 725
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Wednesday, 26 February, 2014 - 02:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Larry,

The Crewe Original viscous fan clutch number for NAG-13418 is UE43652.

Brian
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Larry Halpert
Prolific User
Username: larry_halpert

Post Number: 142
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Thursday, 27 February, 2014 - 09:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Brian,

Thanks, that saves me from breaking out my CD.

- Larry
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michael vass
Experienced User
Username: mikebentleyturbo2

Post Number: 41
Registered: 7-2015
Posted on Friday, 16 October, 2015 - 02:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi All
Just been reading a thread about noisy when cold and was pointed to this thread.
I'm a fan (pun intended)of electric cooling fans , they only use power when needed , they work at full speed even when the engine is idling and car not moving so no air being blown through rad.In the UK temps hardly used at all where the mechanical fan is blowing /noisy all the time even on a cold day with a cold engine.

So how easy isit to fit and what size do I need???

Don't know why anybody would spend money on the old fasioned idea of a viscous coupling.
Cheers
Mike
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Robert Noel Reddington
Grand Master
Username: bob_uk

Post Number: 608
Registered: 5-2015
Posted on Friday, 16 October, 2015 - 06:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The vicious coupling is about 50 quid.
A Kenlow kit is 3 times that and I don't like the bodge of fitting the sensor up the top hose. To do the job properly the rad top tank needs a boss soldered in for a proper sensor.
The electric fan is because of transverse engines. My Jeep has both electric and vicious fans. The electric fans cycle breifly when first started from cold. Apart from that the electric fans never turn on. UK temperatures.

10 bhp saving is exaggerated because at speed the vicious coupling allows the fan to wind mill.

If an engine is turned off with the stat open the thermo syphon will circulate water until the stat closes.

My Shadow has no electric fan. It does not overheat. So in my case fitting an electric fan would be a waste of 150 quid.

There are hundreds of fans in scrap yards. So it could be only say 20 quid to fit electric.

AC works better with adequate cooling.

The only cars I have fitted with electric fans was because of known cooling problems like some models of Reliant Scimitar. Even then I am suspicious that something is being missed. Because what car maker makes cars that overheat. Except Triumph Stag. I don't work on Stags because of this.
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michael vass
Experienced User
Username: mikebentleyturbo2

Post Number: 42
Registered: 7-2015
Posted on Friday, 16 October, 2015 - 07:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Robert
I saw a program about a stag rebuild apparently lack of propper bleeding was always the problem with the cars.
I still think mechanical fans waste lots of fuel when not needed, even when cold mine still spins like a hurricane prop, that takes power.
I doubt a merlin engine needs a cooling fan any bigger lol no wonder it never overheats .
I take your point about the sensor fiting though, I think you can get a "proper" metal peice to fit inline in the top hose though.
Cheers
Mike
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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 989
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Saturday, 17 October, 2015 - 12:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Mike

When your engine is warming up your fan should not be spinning like a hurricane prop. When starting from cold, after a minute or two the fan should be freewheeling. You should not be able to feel any wind from it from the side of the engine. Are you sure your viscous fan is not seized?

I do understand what you are saying about using an electric fan. Ultimately it's a matter of choice i.e. what a particular owner feels happy with. If you do decide to fit one it would be interesting if you could post the details in this forum.

Regards the Stag overheating problem and for any "Wheeler Dealer" fans, their solution is here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY_SfNNnwYk

Geoff
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michael vass
Experienced User
Username: mikebentleyturbo2

Post Number: 44
Registered: 7-2015
Posted on Saturday, 17 October, 2015 - 02:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Geoff
I can turn the fan fairly easy so it's not seized but still seems very blowy to me lol
Thanks for the link but it don't work in uk copyright and all that.
If I fit one I'll post the details ,just not sure what size to get yet.
Cheers
Mike
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michael vass
Experienced User
Username: mikebentleyturbo2

Post Number: 45
Registered: 7-2015
Posted on Saturday, 17 October, 2015 - 02:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi All
Just been looking at the kenlowe dc drive motors and I'm sure the picture shows the aircon fan motor (of which I have 2 fitted)
Would these 2 not provide enough blow anyway without
an additional fan?
mike
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Robert Noel Reddington
Grand Master
Username: bob_uk

Post Number: 612
Registered: 5-2015
Posted on Saturday, 17 October, 2015 - 05:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The Stag engine has never been truly sorted because the design was flawed in the first place. There is a list of problems apart from badly designed cooling system such as a water pump that is on top of the engine. The owners say the engines are reliable but changing the timing chain every 20k miles is not sorted to me. Ridiculous.
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michael vass
Experienced User
Username: mikebentleyturbo2

Post Number: 46
Registered: 7-2015
Posted on Saturday, 17 October, 2015 - 08:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

sounds great though
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michael vass
Prolific User
Username: mikebentleyturbo2

Post Number: 123
Registered: 7-2015
Posted on Tuesday, 05 April, 2016 - 09:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

HELP
How do I undo the nut holding on thr fan?
I know its anticlock thread but I just turn the engine ,is the nut part of the coupling or pump?
Cheers
Mike
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 3262
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Tuesday, 05 April, 2016 - 10:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

With the belts correctly tensioned, lock the crankshaft pulley from turning with a lever against the subframe below. Take care not to stress the harmonic balancer as they are no longer available if damaged or broken. Use a little impulse on the viscous coupling retaining nut. That’s it.
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michael vass
Prolific User
Username: mikebentleyturbo2

Post Number: 124
Registered: 7-2015
Posted on Tuesday, 05 April, 2016 - 11:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thanks Richard the impulse driver (2lbs) had it undone thanks again.
Just the rest to be removed now for a recon water pump grrr
Cheers
Mike
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 562
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Wednesday, 06 April, 2016 - 04:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Michael,
I was amazed to find that the thread on the viscous coupling of my 90 Continental is backwards. My 91 Turbo R and 96 Continental R both have the standard thread Viscous Coupling. Also the thread diameter for the 90 Continental is larger.
Does anyone know why the 90 car has the oddball viscous coupling?

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