| Author | Message | ||
     Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2496 Registered: 4-2003 |
My car, a 42000-series SZ (SCBZB03D2PCH42592) of course has the 4L80E transmission, i.e. electrically actuated shifts and so on. It has an intermittent problem, manifested in transmission shift points, which can surely be solved quickly. It is an electrical or electronics problem. The ECUS are working fine, and there are no error codes on the system. Sport/manual/transmission check functions are all OK. I can bet the farm that it is a connector problem as the TPS potentiometer checks out. If others on this forum with a similar car (Omar with the all-steel Conti R like mine ? Likewise all 1992+ SZ & Arnarge owners) have had the same issue it may save me hours of debugging, presumable one slightly corroded connector. The car is a Yorks car, is spotless, and has been garaged for all its life, so corrosion is not an overall issue. Intermittent. Sometimes, the transmission shifts 1-2 at 40, 2-3 at 50 and 3-4 at 60 even on full throttle. Then, miraculously, it does its proper stuff with 1-2 at 100km/h and generally behaves as it should. Is there a sensor, probe or particular connector that I should visit ? Any hints would be welcome. Much as I love the 4L80E electric transmissions, I do prefer the 3L80/TM400s on my other cars !! Still, 4L80E it is. Any ideas would be most welcome. RT. | ||
| Omar M. Shams Prolific User Username: omar Post Number: 239 Registered: 4-2009 |
Dera Richard, My gearbox is behaving impecably so far. I would like not to jinx it at this stage though. I have a very competent gearbox specialist who operates an American franchise DEXOL workshop. He is very competent and I would have just driven my car to him if I had your problem. I know its not much help - but if you would like, I will ask his opinion regarding your problem. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2498 Registered: 4-2003 |
Omar, My transmission went dud again last night for about 10km, then came good. For the 450km today it was spot on. However, were you to ask your experts at a convenient time I would appreciate it enormously. Sure it is OK now, but I’ll bet it goes sour again before too long. It can only be due to a bad contact somewhere, probably at the plug by the LH rocker cover, but a familiar expert may just say exactly where to look. OK I say, but really the transmission is superb until it’s not. Like that little girl who had a little curl right in the middle of her forehead. When she was good she was very very good and when she was bad she was horrid. The car is pristine without even a stone chip on its original 2K BRG coachwork, and the trim is unmarked too. RT. | ||
| Michael Hicks Experienced User Username: bentleyman22 Post Number: 33 Registered: 12-2011 |
Hi i Love these low Miles cars there nothing but trouble start at the front of the car and remove all the Earth straps clean and Greece i do this with all my cars and all so customers all so i find driving them and not just looking at them helps i had a S1 that only went out on Weekends spent most of the time working on it So just use it as a daily Drive and it never had a problem i do this with all my cars and don't have the tools out | ||
| Omar M. Shams Prolific User Username: omar Post Number: 241 Registered: 4-2009 |
Dear Richard, I spoke to Harout Kabakian - my expert on all things Automatic - who has the following statements for you: Firstly - any bad connection anywhere will result in a fault detection that will register a check engine/transmission warning light to come on and stay on. Secondly - He says there are only three main things that feed variables to the ECU. These are the TPS, coolant temp sensor and transmission oil temp sensor. It can only be one of those playing up. He puts his money on the TPS regardless of the test results you have observed. He says these are tempremental and can give misleading intermittent results. They also cost bugger all to replace - so just replace it and dont look back. Now then Richard - when did you buy the new beast? is it a 4 door or a Conti? whatever it is - congrats on the new car mate. All the best Omar | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2499 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hi Omar, and thanks. This morning, again Thump Thump, no Turbo and upchanges at a snail’s pace. Darn. Before I read your post I had a go at the TPS connector at the left hand rocker cover area and presto ! it is now fine. Previously I had tried the plug right on the TPS with no joy. It could be a coincidence that it righted itself, but I have my fingers crossed that the connection was indeed slightly poor. You advice was spot on it seems, so I have ordered a new TPS – potentiometer for good measure as recommended. Note that whereas the TPS on the TH400/3L80 cars is a throttle position switch, this one is a throttle position sensor (potentiometer). Strangely, the diagnostics did not pick up the error, as I understand that the system picks up the slightest electrical malfunction. The car is a 1993 Continental R chassis SCBZB03D2PCH42592 in British Racing Green. It was ordered on 17 November 1992, and put on the aeroplane to Sydney on 23 December – quite a record production throughput !! It was a Christmas present for its original owner from whom I bought it, and was first officially registered by York Motors, Sydney, on January 6, 1993. The build sheets are remarkable too: it shows no defects during production. My Turbo R was better than most in the build, but still had dozens of frightful defects as most had. I have lots of fiddling to do even though the car at 119,000km is like new. It literally doesn’t even have a stone chip on its original two-pack finish, the leather is unmarked, and the woodwork like the day it left the factory. I am intrigued as to where the engine oil temperature sensor is located until I have a good scout around on the weekend. These are fantastic cars, but I shall miss driving the Turbo R daily. Cheers, RT. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2500 Registered: 4-2003 |
ps I found the engine oil temperature sensor. It is located where the oil pressure switch is located on the earlier cars. As the later SZ cars have a combined oil pressure switch and sensor, the oil switch location on the oil filter pedestal is normally blanked off with a plug, but is used for the temperature sensor on the Conti R. RT. | ||
| Omar M. Shams Prolific User Username: omar Post Number: 242 Registered: 4-2009 |
Dear Richard, I hope you enjoy your Conti R as much as I love mine. Having said that - I have averaged one speeding ticket a month for the first 6 months of ownership and have learnt the hard way not to drive it like a young boy. I still love my Turbo RL as much - I could never sell that. All the best Omar | ||
| Jan Forrest Grand Master Username: got_one Post Number: 331 Registered: 1-2008 |
*Touch wood* Omar: I'm much in the same boat with my little Rover cabriolet. Although it's only a 1.6 litre engine, having 130PS to play with in a sub 1 tonne car and a motor that will spin readily to over 7K rpm it drives more like a competition Kart than a road car. I really should start thinking with my brain rather than an organ much further south! Anyway, SRH24518 should be back on the road by Autumn so I can go back to a more sedate mode of transport - hopefully with my licence still intact and unsullied by speeding points. | ||
| Lluís Gimeno-Fabra Prolific User Username: lluís Post Number: 165 Registered: 8-2007 |
Dear Richard, Due to holidays abroad I could not react to your mail. I do not have any issue with my gearbox and I am glad that you resolved yours. Regards, Lluís | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2547 Registered: 4-2003 |
OK, now I have clocked up 12,000km in the Continental R and all is quite fine. The TPS was not bad, just the connector on the B-Bank rail needed cleaning up. I am interested on how to interrogate the ECU for error logs. Before I embark on my own research, is there some advice on how I may do this ? I am quite prepared to buy bespoke analysis hardware, but imagine that a suitable cable and software on a PC would suffice. Any observations would be most welcome. RT. | ||
| Lluís Gimeno-Fabra Prolific User Username: lluís Post Number: 183 Registered: 8-2007 |
Hi Richard, My project to connect with the engine ECU is stalled due to time investments in other cars... I did take a look at this, I thinbk it may work for the ECU of the tranmission. How is you boost doing? http://www.enghmotors.com/tech/default.aspx Lluís | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2548 Registered: 4-2003 |
Thank you so much, Lluis, I’ll explain why I would like to see the diagnostics, and more importantly clear them now that all seems OK. I have the files you posted now and shall try to see what I can do. I finally replaced the connector for the TPS located on the B-Bank service rail above the injectors after cleaning it and wiggling it etc to revive it for some time. I used a standard 6-way gold-plated generic aircraft type which fits in well and tucks away under the rail as did the original. So far, touch wood, the transmission has been working better than ever. The original Bosch ones, gold sockets and tinned plugs, seem reliably mostly but mine still gave me grief a few times over the past few months. That is probably due to the low mileage that the car has travelled more than anything else. With slight corrosion and touch signals, the ECU was I assume muddling along unhappily. Occassionally: 1. Sometimes there was no realistic TPS signal so the transmission upshifted heavily always at the same speeds regardless of throttle, eg 30, 40 and 50 km/h. 2. Other times MANUAL would not select, presumably when the TPS signal went out of the acceptable range. 3. Worst, if I selected the 2-range to go up or down a mountain (eg the Clyde Mountain) and let the revs go above 3,000 for long, the transmission electronics all shut down and switched to safe mode, staying at full system pressure in second gear, and CHECK GEARBOX came on until I stopped and restarted the motor. Presumable the TPS signal was out of range again. The last silliness was particularly annoying as there are several hilly windy stretches along the South Coast of NSW on the way to Sydney and of course inland to Canberra over the mountains, and it is best to use second, save the brakes, and give it a bit of a workout. Transient Overboost – working on that one ! I need to fit a few sensors to the motor before I experiment too much. RT. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2553 Registered: 4-2003 |
Lluis, OK, now I have read the blink codes by activating the Diagnosis mode and activating Gearbox Diagnosis Mode. The driver's information panel blinks Check Gearbox and an audible bleep sounds conveniently at the same time. Simple. Code 22 (Throttle Position Sensor Low) showed up as expected given the bad TPS connector I had replaced. The symptoms were as described in the TSD6000 diagnostic table: Code 22 TPS Low >> Firm/harsh shifts, maximum line pressure, fixed shift points. I have cleared the codes now of course. Question: given that we can simply read the blink codes, what transmission information can Mastercheck provide that the blink codes cannot ? RT. | ||
| Lluís Gimeno-Fabra Prolific User Username: lluís Post Number: 185 Registered: 8-2007 |
Hi again Richard, The Mastercheck system "just" a terminal based diagnostic system with a 41 pin plug with all the data transmission lines (k-l lines) of ABS, Airbag, Engine management system, etc... and a number of live-stream data lines for temperatures, bosst, barometric pressure, etc... OBD-2 integrates this in a 16 pin standard terminal. The RR Mastercheck is nothing but a so called OBD-1 which has independent k-l lines of the ECU's of the car, later systems have a can-bus combining all signals Mastercheck was developed so that an operator can make a centralised check of the ECU and emmission-critical sensor outputs without the hastle of going under the bonnet. BMW and Mercedes used also proprietary (20 and 38 pin) "Mastercheck" systems. Now: the k-l lines of Mastercheck can transmit fault codes (in which case the blink codes are an alternative) but in OBD-2 (which we do not have) also live-data from all the sensors that the given ECU is getting information from, so that you can check actual sensor input to the ECU live and of course, would you want it, re-programming the ECU. This means that with an adequate interface (many are PC-based, some even phone-based) you can have the full picture of what the ECU is reading, parallel data are of course an immense source of information, as complex faults can sometimes be traced only to two or more things going close to out of range at a time... Motronic 3.3 (1994) does not have the blink codes facility, so in my particular case for the EMS no chance to make a diagnostic when the check engine light comes on. Probably my gearbox ECU has blink codes, but not the EMS. The move from OBD-1 to OBD2 can only be told by looking at the k-l signal from the ECU, it is possible that one can perfectly communicate with an older ECU because it was already working on a standard communication protocol prior to OBD-2. So resuming, in my particular case, I have no blink codes... and I am interested in live-stream data. This applies more to the engine than the gearbox of course. I would personally not dare reprogramming. Best regards, Lluís |
