| Author | Message | |||
     Lluís Gimeno-Fabra Prolific User Username: lluís Post Number: 143 Registered: 8-2007 |
Dear all, Does somebody know the Pin-Out of the Mastercheck socket used in 1990 era Bentley and Royces for car diagnostics? I believe that with a generic ISO 9141 protocol the OBD function of the ECU is accessible, I know Master Check has K and L lines, so it looks promising. I am bulding an OBD-1/2 interface to connect the ECU of the car to a computer or Android device, so that all information on the engine management sensors (voltage/resistance) can be read in situ, with the vehicle driving. It would be a great help for diagnostics, as you know what the ECU is really reading. To do this I am working with a volunteer friend that has worked years for Renault in field of ECU programming through OBD protocols. In case it works, there will be reports, it's promised but unfortunately the full pin-out of the Mastercheck socket seems to be difficult to find... Could you please help? Lluís | |||
| Paul Yorke Grand Master Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 769 Registered: 6-2006 |
Have you got this Llu�s
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| Paul Yorke Grand Master Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 770 Registered: 6-2006 |
92-93
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| Lluís Gimeno-Fabra Prolific User Username: lluís Post Number: 144 Registered: 8-2007 |
Yes, now I just need the A-Z pin-out location in the socket (45). I believe that the repair manual has a description of it, but not complete. I am quite sure that (c) and (v) are the k and l-lines of the OBD interface, and that these are ISO9141 compliant, which means that you could read, with the right interface, all of the EMS sensor data through these single two lines (it's a sequential data coding). | |||
| Leloarer Bernard New User Username: leloarer Post Number: 3 Registered: 8-2009 |
Hi Lluís, I'm very interested by your researchs, are you in progress ? Thanks by advance Bernard | |||
| Lluís Gimeno-Fabra Prolific User Username: lluís Post Number: 153 Registered: 8-2007 |
Due to too much work stalled, but all components bought. I am 99.9% certain that Carsoft will work, as B32 BMW used an identical motronic 3.3 layout and it works for them. Will post. Lluís | |||
| Lluís Gimeno-Fabra Prolific User Username: lluís Post Number: 155 Registered: 8-2007 |
Hello again, From the other threat (OBD-II) there seemed to be some members who were also interested and wanted to make a cable interface with k-l lines to an OBD-II socket and try communication with a standard OBD-II interface. I am really looking forward to hear their experience but on non US cars the cabling must me modified, it's not k-l line to k-l line... IETIS has a diagram of this modification but I need to get it running in my computer before I can report -I changed to Linux and I think IETIS does not support it-. In any case in post 1996 non-US cars it will not be a direct connection of k-l lines to an OBD-II socket, sorry. Now, in 1993-1996 motronic 3.3 cars, the story is different, because there seems to be a direct interface package for this ECU, widely used by BMW in the E32... the thing is that the usual OBD ISO 9141 protocols (inter alia), do not work directly in this generation of cars... in other words, once the ECU is communicating, the protocol will be ISO, but to wake up the ECU you need the right baud-rate in the L-line, which is what I am trying to get to with carsoft. Lack of time, the fact that a friend got another Continental R and sold his Corniche, another friend crashed his Jaguar XJ6 S1 and blocked my garage for reparation, have stalled things, but I planned to go on in a few weeks. Best regards until then, Lluís | |||
| Bernard Leloarer New User Username: leloarer Post Number: 10 Registered: 8-2009 |
Hi Lluis, If it can help, I had found that ; about the TSD 6000 for the round Diagnostic plug ; - the K & L lines are on v & w pins - but they are also on the r & s pin with the electrical diagram On my 97 UK turboR i haven't v & w but i have r & s . Are they correctly wired, that's the Shakespear's question .... ? :D [img]http://i41.servimg.com/u/f41/16/11/59/05/0_310.jpg[/img] [img]http://i41.servimg.com/u/f41/16/11/59/05/0_010.jpg[/img] [img]http://i41.servimg.com/u/f41/16/11/59/05/0_0111.jpg[/img] [img]http://i41.servimg.com/u/f41/16/11/59/05/0_210.jpg[/img] By thinking about the electric diagram, we notice that the 50/52 splice & 49/51 splice are essential for the good functioning of the automatic gearbox, and it's the only connection between them. We can think thus reasonably ; - that the K & L signals are good on r & s pin - The protocol of transmission of data between transmission control module (43) & engine management moldule (3) are not different from a country in the other one since ODB2 became compulsory for US Am'I right, am'I wrong , that's again... ? | |||
| Lluís Gimeno-Fabra Prolific User Username: lluís Post Number: 156 Registered: 8-2007 |
Hello Bernard, the CAN-BUS line between gearbox and EMM sends to the engine a signal that the gearbox is preparing a change gear, the ecu increases advance so that there is a torque decrease and sends back a signal to the gearbox so that it changes. BMW used the same system. I must check but I believe that it has no influence of the diagnostics. Your 1997 car is most certainly OBD-II complaint in terms of signal structure, but being UK does not have the 16 pin plug. I believe that there is just a small cable modification to be done. On the other hand, I see a v w pin in your mastercheck plug, why do you say that you have no v w ? At least they seem populated to me from the picture. What type of voltages do you get? in my case it's 8.4 and 10 volt. | |||
| Bernard Leloarer Experienced User Username: leloarer Post Number: 11 Registered: 8-2009 |
Hello Lluis, I think that the CAN-BUS line between gearbox and EMM sends more signals that only a signal that the gearbox is preparing a change gear, the ecu increases advance. There is a real dialog between the two ECU. Load rating, motor RPM, Throttle Position Sensor, etc ... I believe like You, that there is just a small cable modification to be done to get the K & L signals. You right of course for v & w, i've done a mistake with upper cas letter . For the voltage, I'll measure soon, and I tell you. Regards {Would you, please, excuse my bad English, I'm just french. Nobody's perfect ....} | |||
| Lluís Gimeno-Fabra Prolific User Username: lluís Post Number: 157 Registered: 8-2007 |
Ton anglais et le mien sont latins et charmants :-) Pas de probleme, moi je suis espagnol et j'habite aux Pays Bas, ma femme est Bourguignone... I think that they introduced the electronic shift management later, probably your car has it, mine does not, only advance retardation, in my motronic... | |||
| Bernard Leloarer Experienced User Username: leloarer Post Number: 12 Registered: 8-2009 |
Bonjour Lluis, très drôle cet internationalisme ...  but your english is better than mine ! You're right, they introduced the electronic shift management when the automatic gear box is going from 3 speeds GM 400 to 4 speeds with electronic shift management GM 4L80E. at the 1991 motor show, probably since the 1992 models. J'habite près de Macon, aux portes de la Bourgogne, mes compliments à votre épouse. | |||
| Lluís Gimeno-Fabra Prolific User Username: lluís Post Number: 184 Registered: 8-2007 |
Dear all, This project stalled during my last holidays, because I discovered many mechanical faults in my everyday Jaguar that are taking a lot more time that is available... I still wanted to update you on this, as I did made some discoveries. First things first, using an ELM327 bluetooth interface connected to the k and l lines of mastercheck I managed to have a connection with the engine ECU on an ISO 14230 protocol produced by Alexandre Beloussov (freeware) showing status "connected to ECU". Still impossible to read data nor fault codes. I am however optimistic, after much investigation, it would appear that the ECU in my car is virtually identical to the Motronic 3.3 of E32 BMW. This means that I will give a second shot when time allows with carsoft: a paid software that connects through the k-line and l-line to the ECU of BMW and delivers full code read-out and live-data. | |||
| Bernard Leloarer Experienced User Username: leloarer Post Number: 13 Registered: 8-2009 |
Dear Luis, thanks for your explanations. I wait for the sequel with a great curiosity. ...  | |||
| Ernest Carty New User Username: edcarty Post Number: 4 Registered: 12-2012 |
Hi has any advance been made oh this subject I own a 1997 Bentley Turbo LWB UK car it is equipped with the Mastercheck round socket .I have noticed from my handbook some cars were produced that used both OBD1 and the Mastercheck and had a changer over switch fitted so presumsably you couls use either diagnostic tool.It was noted that OBD1 was a forerunner of OBD2 however I do not know what difference it made ?Possibly less codes or limited access does anyone know?}} | |||
| Bernard Leloarer Experienced User Username: leloarer Post Number: 16 Registered: 8-2009 |
Hi, the main differences between obd1 & obd2 are ; a standardized electric connector, faults public and standardized codes ($ Open Source$), a Protocol - and data - communication with more specific "on-board" Diagnostics on the dysfunction of emission control | |||
| Ernest Carty New User Username: edcarty Post Number: 6 Registered: 12-2012 |
Hi Bernard, Thanks for your info, a topic posted sometime ago on the Rolls Royce Forums in the UK dealt with the subject of making up a cable to connect the Mastercheck socket directly with a OBD 2 female socket so a conventional scan tool could be used.I have contacted the member without success to see if he could make one up for me and also give me some info as to what codes could be read/erased.As he has not replied I was wondering if anyone in Australia has done this on a UK car imported?Any help will be appreciated as it looks as though the lluis project has gone cold. | |||
| Lluís Gimeno-Fabra Prolific User Username: lluís Post Number: 287 Registered: 8-2007 |
Hi all, Not stalled but on pause. The wiring diagrammes indeed show that the |OBD 1 k and l lines just swap to the pin for OBD2 in ISO9141 fashion. I will be back... When the weather is nice again. | |||
| Michael Hicks Frequent User Username: bentleyman22 Post Number: 96 Registered: 12-2011 |
if some body has a wiring diagram for a 1996 OBD plug or a car to take a Note of the wiring of there plug then i can finish what i have been playing with so any help would be good | |||
| Omar M. Shams Grand Master Username: omar Post Number: 314 Registered: 4-2009 |
I have a 97 model Continental R made in 96. The car has both OBD and Mastercheck connectors side by side. How can I help???? Omar | |||
| Michael Hicks Frequent User Username: bentleyman22 Post Number: 97 Registered: 12-2011 |
Fantastic if i can have the colors and Corresponding No on the OBD 16 pin plug i can then make up the plug to go from the master check to OBD and then we should be able to read the codes i just don't want to take a chance and damage something Thanks Michael | |||
| Omar M. Shams Grand Master Username: omar Post Number: 315 Registered: 4-2009 |
Dear Michael, I have not attempted to remove the sockets to see the wires behind them nor do I know where to start. Let me have a look at this to see what it entails. I usually take many days to get simple tasks done so please bear with me. Thanks Omar | |||
| Lluís Gimeno-Fabra Prolific User Username: lluís Post Number: 288 Registered: 8-2007 |
Dear Omar and Michael, one way to start Omar, is that you buy an ELM327 Bluetooth OBD 2 reader from EBay and simply download a simple application, lique Torque, into your Smartphone and do the connection between the devices. We will then see what is read by Torque and see how we can proceed. It's very possible that I cannot follow the discussion regularly, but I promise to input. Lluís | |||
| Michael Hicks Frequent User Username: bentleyman22 Post Number: 98 Registered: 12-2011 |
Hi Liuis i have Auto Enginuity it is a workshop unit that i use on the Jags ans Aston's so has all i need on it but i don't want to just keep trying on the can leads in case theirs is a problem So thanks for the help and to you all we need this for the later car so the Main Dealers don't have us over a baral | |||
| Lluís Gimeno-Fabra Prolific User Username: lluís Post Number: 289 Registered: 8-2007 |
OK, I will do my best to post this week the wiring for the latter models, I have it at home, basically both k and l lines of the gearbox and engine are wired together, But we do need Omar to confirm that it's in the ISO 9141 positions of the 16 pin plug. Lluís | |||
| Michael Hicks Frequent User Username: bentleyman22 Post Number: 99 Registered: 12-2011 |
that would be grate as i have a Engine Management light on so will have good feed back | |||
| Ernest Carty New User Username: edcarty Post Number: 7 Registered: 12-2012 |
Hi and thanks,lluis I look forward to seeing your post hopefully this will tell all if the the connectors can be made to say use a scan tool.Ernest | |||
| Lluís Gimeno-Fabra Prolific User Username: lluís Post Number: 290 Registered: 8-2007 |
Hi again, Unfortunatelz my memory stick with Ietis is gone and I am trying to retrieve it. I will try to post the diagramme, but it's pins u and v (minuscule) in the mastercheck socket, this I remember. Lluís | |||
| Michael Hicks Prolific User Username: bentleyman22 Post Number: 103 Registered: 12-2011 |
Thanks Lluis i have the master check print out i need the US OBD diagram Omar has it on his car so just waiting for that and then we should be Good Michael | |||
| Paul Yorke Grand Master Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 946 Registered: 6-2006 |
Hi, I'm not sure if this covers ground you have already trodden but a friend sent this to me and although I haven't had the time to try it out I thought I'd post it on here. (with his permission). Hello Paul, I use a chinese copy available on ebay (vas 5954a) for about £100 with the free option of the Bentley software. The initial setting up on a computer can be a bit fraught which is why I think many people have problems. I am pretty good in computer terms and had a couple of setting up issues ( but unlike you I did not have anyone to ask!). The chinese copy I have is electronically the real thing inside and the software is the genuine VW/Bentley item but not Bentley licenced. Bentley support or Gecko etc connection are not therefore available. The pre 2003 models Seraph and Arnage do not have access to guided fault finding because the language (KWP2000) is not suitable. Normal OBD fault readouts and engine parameter access are available (see list). I can see no reason why later models including the very late CAN models would not have full access. Where the list says "no" that refers to pre 2003, later cars should access. I also use an obd multiplexer (£10 ebay) for manually connecting to pins where the software does not on early models. The wiring diagrams from the service/parts CD's available(very good) on ebay allowed me to work out which systems were connected to which pins. If a pin is not connected at the car end then it does nothing. If a pin is connected at the car but not at the scanner then either the multiplexer or the software has to electronically shift connection. The list is for Seraphs/Arnage (Start of Chart) Car Electrical Circuits car pin 5054a scanner Not Connected most models[2009 only] 1 Switched Ignition (term15) Not Connected most models [2009 only] 2 J1850P AirBag,AutoRide,Alarm,CDL,BattMan,parkassist [2000-2009] Park, Alarm,Airbags- yes BattMan, Autoride - no Body bus single 3 Not Connected earth 4 Chassis Ground earth 5 Signal ground Not Connected most models [2009 only] 6 Can High (High Speed) Engine,Abs,Cruise,Trans,AutoRide Engine – yes Abs,Cruise,Trans,Autoride - no [2000-2009] Engine bus single 7 ISO9141 K line Not Connected most models [Azure only] 8 Can High (low speed) Trans [2000] 9+14 1200ohm 9 Can Low (low speed) Not Connected most models [Azure only] 10 J1850N AutoRide16 [2000] -No Body bus single? 11 Not Connected AutoRide ECU13 [2000] -no 12 Not Connected Hvac,Speed Sensor [2000-2009] -no k-bus single 13 Not Connected Seat Lumbar,Alarm,CDL [2000-2009] -no Not sure 14 Can Low (High Speed) Not Connected 15 ISO9141 L line Battery power [2000-2009] 16 Battery Power (End of chart) Spirits and <2003 models use iso9141 and I intend to get a copy of the early genrad software and see what can be done to use the VS 5054a with it. Not all fault functions are through the cpu's so brake pads for instance is just a simple warning that goes when the pads and sensor are replaced. Engine service reset is done via the dash. The expensive diagnostic systems are just standard robust computers. It is the software that makes the difference and the ability to access different pins as required. Well thats a mouthful for starters.Any questions just ask. all the best | |||
| Omar M. Shams Grand Master Username: omar Post Number: 360 Registered: 4-2009 |
Dear Ernest and Michael, My apologies for being negligemnt with my duties. I have not done what I said I would do regarding the two sockets. This weekend, I will tear into the glovebox of my Continenetal R to take photos of the sockets. The resolution of the images will not be that great because of the website limitations - but I will do my best. If later you want any specific image in more detail, PM me and I will send them at full resolution to your email addresses. Thanks Omar | |||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 634 Registered: 6-2009 |
All, This thread on rollsroyceforums.com might be of interest. I have corresponded with the thread starter and it seems as though he's put a *lot* of work into this. Since I don't have a 1996-1999 model with Zytec I can't vouch for anything, but it's worth a look and a conversation if you do. Brian | |||
| Omar M. Shams Grand Master Username: omar Post Number: 362 Registered: 4-2009 |
here are the pictures. They speak 2600 words....     | |||
| Omar M. Shams Grand Master Username: omar Post Number: 363 Registered: 4-2009 |
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| Omar M. Shams Grand Master Username: omar Post Number: 364 Registered: 4-2009 |
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| Omar M. Shams Grand Master Username: omar Post Number: 365 Registered: 4-2009 |
There are only 5 wires that go to the OBD socket. These wires go to an existing socket that will be in all cars. The socket is cleary shown in the photos above. The 5 OBD wires are clearly vsisible and you can see which pins they go to. Now I will spend the next hour rebuilding my glove compartment.............. All the best. | |||
| Michael Hicks Prolific User Username: bentleyman22 Post Number: 123 Registered: 12-2011 |
Thanks Omar | |||
| Bernard Leloarer Experienced User Username: leloarer Post Number: 20 Registered: 8-2009 |
Many thanks Omar  | |||
| Omar M. Shams Grand Master Username: omar Post Number: 366 Registered: 4-2009 |
hahahahahaha loved the claps!! thats so cool. Take care guys. Omar | |||
| Bernard Leloarer Experienced User Username: leloarer Post Number: 22 Registered: 8-2009 |
With a such EODB plug wiring the transmission protocol is OIN or ISO 9141-2 | |||
| Ernest Carty Experienced User Username: edcarty Post Number: 22 Registered: 12-2012 |
Thanks so much to Omar for the photos,once I get the chance to look for the socket and hopefully I will be able to trace the wiring this should let me know which wires do what. | |||
| Omar M. Shams Grand Master Username: omar Post Number: 367 Registered: 4-2009 |
you are welcome Ernest. I am still cracked up about Bernard's clapping..... hahahahahaha Omar | |||
| Ernest Carty Experienced User Username: edcarty Post Number: 23 Registered: 12-2012 |
Omar you deserve all the applause for being so helpful after all this is what these forums are for and I personally thank you for your contribution .Regards Ernest | |||
| Michael Hicks Prolific User Username: bentleyman22 Post Number: 124 Registered: 12-2011 |
Well it is up and running so if any wants the information RRob has it on the RRB Forum Michael | |||
| Ernest Carty Experienced User Username: edcarty Post Number: 25 Registered: 12-2012 |
Hi Micheal,glad to hear you got your OBD up and running ,as you know I am pursuing a similar setup along with a friend of mine.He setup his car using the info from OMARS photos,and indeed used the socket already in his car .However he needed to have his Keyfob reprogrammed after repair as the OBD would not allow this he had to take the car to Rolls/Bentley Specialist to have Mastercheck do the work .When the Technician plugged in the Mastercheck it Immediatly reconized the VIN No and and reported that a OBD socket had been installed that was not originally fitted.The Masterchech would not continue,My friend has been told to remove the OBD and restore the car to original setup using the plug which has the links in it so Mastercheck can read the car again .Unfortunately he was still charged £60 .The Technician also said that many functions ABS,AIRBAG ,Security ,air con etc can only be read using Mastercheck I am going to make up a FLYLEAD to plug into the Mastercheck socket to a OBD soket easily removeable if I need to have Mastercheck diagnose my car .I have noted that cars made for the US have a change over switch between the 2 sockets perhaps this is Why? |
maybe