| Author | Message | ||
     davide frada Experienced User Username: davidef Post Number: 30 Registered: 11-2008 |
Hello, Currently, I'm trying to remove a pair brake pumps for resealing. Unfortunately, the home made tool I've used in the past is not up to the task in this instance. Is there an Australian source from whom I could purchase or hire the correct tool? Regards Davide | ||
| Carl Heydon Experienced User Username: car Post Number: 19 Registered: 2-2004 |
I'll second that! I would love someone to make these for sale. I have seen pics of beautiful ‘home made’ made ones. | ||
| Bill Coburn Moderator Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 1263 Registered: 4-2003 |
Carl they are available from the Factory. I bought one a year or so ago for about $300 which was about what I paid to have one made coincidentally. The latter twisted like a pretzel when the going got tough since these pumps get very resistant in middle age. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2176 Registered: 4-2003 |
A question: where is the pump leaking ? They practically only ever leak past the pump cover/housing o-rings (EPDM on an SY see http://rrtechnical.info/miscellaneous/oring.pdf ) and fluid escapes externally over the motor and onto the floor. That cover/housing has to come off before the pump can be removed anyhow. The only other sealing is in the lower o-ring which is under positive compression and almost never leaks. A leak past that small lower o-ring would be internal into the crankcase, but I have never seen it happen. If only the pump cover o-rings are suspect, why not just undo the pipes and the circlip, then lift off the pump cover and replace the o-rings ? That is a simple in-situ job, one which I did on my Turbo R last week (same sized o-rings as an SY, but made of common Buna-N Nitrile rather than the SY’s EPDM). The pump is by far best left alone unless there is a broken spring inside causing audible ticking even when the motor has been run for a few minutes. In that case, it is best to remove the valley cover for a good look inside. I have never needed the special pump spanner. If a pump is suspect, I prefer to remove the valley cover complete with the pumps. Then, and only if really necessary, the pumps may be removed from the valley cover simply using a $10 C-spanner from your local tool shop. Of course, a pump will cease to function if its pushrod is broken. Very early cars have solid pushrods which destroy the camshaft and explode the valley cover if the pump seizes, usually due to the use of standard brake fluid which was used until 1974 when RR363 came along as a mandatory change for all SYs. On cars except for those very few earliest ones, the pump pushrod features a weak waisted section (see picture) which breaks if the pump seizes, but Crewe made them a little too weak for a number of years. After a decade’s use, the slight amount of fatigue induced in the metal allowed the rod to break even with the pump working properly and freely. You may care to remove the pump in the case of a broken pump pushrod, but again the valley cover is by far best removed in the process. The picture is of a broken hydraulic pump pushrod from an early SY (1966-1977). That is a very common failure, even when using RR363, as those cars have their sacrificial shear section a little too weak. Almost all have been retrofitted with an SZ rod by now, as the shear section was more optimal by then.  | ||
| Paul Yorke Grand Master Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 627 Registered: 6-2006 |
As Richard says, do outer pump seals in situ, other than that, pump off for a broken spring, pushrod, to overhaul and clean the pump, etc. Don't even think about taking the tappet chest cover off for any job like that. That is almost the same lines as taking the cylinder head off to gap the spark plugs! If the tools are rare in Aus, maybe you could buy one and rent it out on the forum. $50 or so rental will save anybody a fortune in time and materials etc. I wouldn't recommend renting it out for less because they do not last for ever. Tip 1: On Shadows you can use a c-spanner jaw with no handle on a vertical extension. Spirits onwards, it gets very tight to get one on there. Tip 2: On injection spirits, leave the rear feed pipe in the housing so you can just wiggle it to get the housing up and off.  | ||
| Chris Browne Experienced User Username: chrisb Post Number: 12 Registered: 2-2010 |
Hello everyone. I have a 1979 Shadow with a slight leak from the rear pump. Is it possible to remove the pumps outer sleeve to fit the new seals without moving the carburettors? I have heard conflicting advice about this. Thanks in advance. Chris | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2177 Registered: 4-2003 |
... and why not ? The inlet manifold comes off easily, then it's only a few setscrews. It gives you the rare chance to inspect the cam lobes, to clean out all the tappets and to reseal the tappet cover/valley cover/tappet chest properly. It's a job well done, and given that the pumps so seldom need removing I consider it highly worthwhile to spend the extra time. | ||
| davide frada Experienced User Username: davidef Post Number: 32 Registered: 11-2008 |
Thanks for the replies. I am keen to remove the pumps anyway, as they could do with a good clean up. Has anyone used the tool supplied by the following? - http://www.hyphenrepairsinc.com/parts.htm Seems priced reasonably enough. | ||
| Omar M. Shams Prolific User Username: omar Post Number: 154 Registered: 4-2009 |
Davide, when I had the same problem as you, I took a spare pump to a machine shop and got them to make the tool in the pictures below to fit that pump. It cost me way less than US$100. You could always start off with a chunky socket (like the ones that they use for undoing wheel nuts) as your raw material:     | ||
| Paul Yorke Grand Master Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 631 Registered: 6-2006 |
Looks nice and strong Omar. A couple of observations. If you look at the genuine tool, the nut is off set. There is also a wasted or angled side. These modifications allow it to get into places that the straight ones can not. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2183 Registered: 4-2003 |
Davide, I have ordered one from Hyperion to see how good it is. It should arrive early next week. Assuming that it's OK, it will be available free, on a replace-if-damaged basis, to anyone who wants it. RT. | ||
| Paul Yorke Grand Master Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 632 Registered: 6-2006 |
Davide, RT Can't can't be fairer than that! Bet that will put a smile on a few faces and save hours of hard slog to boot. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2184 Registered: 4-2003 |
Correction: I ordered the pump spanner from Hyphen Repairs in Canada, not Hyperion. Hyperion is in the USA. RT. | ||
| davide frada Experienced User Username: davidef Post Number: 33 Registered: 11-2008 |
Thanks to all for the input... Omar, that's a great looking tool. There's a fellow up the road who could easily make such a thing, however, I don't have a pump out of a car to use as a template. Paul, is it true that the manifold on some cars obstructs the pump somewhat, therefore rendering the tool useless even with the wasted side? Richard, what a wonderful and generous offer. Has the tool arrived? What are your impressions? Regards Davide | ||
| Paul Yorke Grand Master Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 634 Registered: 6-2006 |
Davide, The proper tool has a thin wall and is not much thicker than the pump housing, so I've not come across one that it wouldn't fit in. Some are a very tight fit, so Omars tool may foul in some cases, but looks very substantial. I have tools with no teeth left where the pump has been fused to the engine. The wasted area is to get under the carburettor inlet pipes etc. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2185 Registered: 4-2003 |
Mine arrived today if anyone needs it. This is the picture from the Hyphen website (the Hyphen stands for the thing between the Rolls and the Royce by the way). Top marks for delivery by normal airmail: four days from Canada. Indeed it is intentionally thinnish to fit in the constricted space of some models. Note the cutaway to allow it to fit past the manifold at an angle as you slide it into place. I dare say that it will survive a fairly tight pump as long as it is held firmly square to prevent slipping out. The one delivered is just a little different from the one shown. The cutaway is a bit greater, and the finish is improved at the welds. Overall. the one I now have looks far better than the one shown. I'll post a photo or two of my own in a few days. RT.  | ||
| Bill Coburn Moderator Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 1277 Registered: 4-2003 |
Richard/ Have you had any takers for your 'loan' pump tool?? | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2213 Registered: 4-2003 |
Yes, Bill. It disappeared into the ether, never to be seen or heard of again. Lesson learned. | ||
| Bill Coburn Moderator Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 1278 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hmm. As one of the great philosophers once observed, there are far more arseholes in the world that bums!!! I fondly remember many years ago a prominent member from New Zealand sent me his spanner unbid which I copied and returned promptly. Your experience is particularly disappointing, as being naive as I am I consider any contributor to these columns, genuine, sincere and honest. There is always one crook egg in the basket is there not? I have been toying with setting up a tool hire pool in our little Branch but I will apparently need to obtain a substantial deposit as a starting point. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2214 Registered: 4-2003 |
Bill, A tool hire would be a great scheme. Could we even wangle a Budget Stimulus Package from the RROC(A) ? I would be prepared to make an ex-gratia cash donation towards that, and to offer administrative help if needed. Several of us already possess a range of special tools: I have odds and ends for the MkVI/R-Type, SY and SZ cars. I’ll open a new thread with a wishlist of tools and priorities. RT. | ||
| Barry Brears Frequent User Username: turney_2009 Post Number: 52 Registered: 8-2009 |
Gosh Richard I was just about to overhaul one of my brakes pumps which has developed a bit of a noise and I was going to ask to borrow your tool.By the way how often do you get down to Batemans Bay assuming that you do of course. Regards Barry Brears | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2216 Registered: 4-2003 |
Barry, BB is my secret hangout zone, and I often go there (in the greeeen Turbo R). We have had a place on the beach down that way forever. I can't find a weekend before the end of October as I'll be away for a few weeks soon. You may send me a private message if you wish. RT. | ||
| Paul Yorke Grand Master Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 660 Registered: 6-2006 |
A hefty deposit plus a daily charge. I found out long ago that some people seem to enjoy kicking a gifthorse in the mouth  At least that way you can replace the tool if it gets damaged or goes missing, plus they will not leave it on the sideboard and 'send it off tomorrow'. (The proverbial one that never comes ) |
