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Jan Forrest
Prolific User
Username: got_one

Post Number: 116
Registered: 1-2008
Posted on Wednesday, 10 February, 2010 - 08:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

It seems that my original thread on this subject was lost in last night's server debacle, so I'll repeat it in hopes that it can be solved.
The Old Girl has let me down badly. The right hand rear passenger door has been stuck shut for a few weeks, but the weather has been too cold, wet and snowy for me to start tinkering with it plus I've been unwell for most of that time. That was little problem until yesterday when I inadvertantly lowered the window while cleaning the leather. Now it's stuck at half mast and will not go up again.
As I put it yesterday - I've thumped it, I've jiggled it and I've even shouted at it, but nothing works! Any ideas my little Antipodean chums?
This may be relevant: When I use the central locking the button on that door just pops up half way then drops down again. Pulling it up by hand doesn't help as pressing the external button or pulling the internal lever just makes it want to move down again and even when holding it at the same time, it just refuses to unlock.
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Stefan Morley
Prolific User
Username: myupctoys

Post Number: 188
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Wednesday, 10 February, 2010 - 09:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Jan,

Electrics.... My door locks have always worked but my windows caused me all sorts of grief. They are wired so there is interdependency between the master (drivers door) and the other doors. So even if you fix the master doesn't mean the other windows will work.

RS components actually sells the micro switches, reasonably priced too. Cant remember exactly, was the manufacturer Burgess or something, anyway what ever they where was the same manufacturer as the originals. The switch should be well less than 1R on both contact positions, even something as low as 3 >> 4 R makes the window run very slow.

Seem to remember someone talking about the window winder mod using a relay somewhere on the forum.

Got a problem with the internal light activation when I open the drivers door. All the other doors turn on the lights, just not the drivers. Get around to it one day. Think that is to do with a switch associated with the door latch???

Central locking solenoids will draw a fair bit of current. Almost certainly a poor connection.

Stefan
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Stefan Morley
Prolific User
Username: myupctoys

Post Number: 189
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Wednesday, 10 February, 2010 - 09:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Jan,

Sorry just realized your talking the rear passenger door not the drivers door. Window winder comment still valid.

I remember measuring the current to the solenoid a long time ago, over 7 amps. But you might have a mechanical issue if all you other solenoids are working.

Stefan
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Jan Forrest
Prolific User
Username: got_one

Post Number: 117
Registered: 1-2008
Posted on Wednesday, 10 February, 2010 - 11:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

As it happens none of the windows now work. I've tried resetting the doohicky behind the glove compartment, but it doesn't help. The main trouble with the rear window is that the door is stuck shut and I can't remove the door card to work on the gubbins in there. As luck would have it, one of the connectors snapped off the main window switch set in the driver's door when I was looking at it yesterday thus incapacitating the only reliable window in the car - the driver's door window!

quote:

Got a problem with the internal light activation when I open the drivers door. All the other doors turn on the lights, just not the drivers. Get around to it one day.



The Old Girl has recently exhibited the same symptoms. My excuses for not doing anything about it is that a) it's been snowing a lot lately b) I don't know where the light switch is and c) I've been quite unwell for the last 3 weeks.
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Omar M. Shams
Prolific User
Username: omar

Post Number: 114
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Thursday, 11 February, 2010 - 05:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Dear Jan,
Firstly, let us hope you get well soon. I had one door stick on me regularly on my old Shadow II. It used to peeve me, but eventually it would break free. One time, I had someone pushing form the inside, me pulling from the outside and someone messing with the lock and door lever all at the same time to get the door to open. Try that!!! it may work for you. Another time, the trick was to push the door against the seal whilst playing with door handles/locks etc and that worked too. After a scary situation when I thought the door would never open, I learnt my lesson. I now open and close all doors on all my cars at least once a week.
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Bill Payne
Experienced User
Username: wimpy

Post Number: 37
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Thursday, 11 February, 2010 - 07:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Have you tried disconnecting the battery to eliminate the auto lock problem?

You may remedy your problem with judicious applications of a spray lubricant. I've had the same problems with cars which had been sitting for longer than normal.

There is a lock lubricant that locksmiths in the SE US use, don't have the brand name, but it did wonders. A high quality penetrating oil is probably the next best solution.

You need to somehow lubricate the door portion of the lock mechanism. Lubricant straws pieced together directed between the glass & channel or from the outside thru the rear door gap opening worked for me.
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Jan Forrest
Prolific User
Username: got_one

Post Number: 118
Registered: 1-2008
Posted on Thursday, 11 February, 2010 - 08:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thanks for tips Old Chums. I'll have to try one, some or all of them as soon as the weather warms up. Not having a garage big enough to work on The Old Girl I abhor lying on the wet ground while I remove the bolts holding the arm rests on the rear door cards ... Bbrrr.
In the meantime I've secured the window with 2 'trellis' expanding window vents (the kind you use to keep the car a bit cooler if you have to leave your dog in it in hot weather) and taped some plastic over it to keep out the rain, wind, snow and bird poo.
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Jan Forrest
Prolific User
Username: got_one

Post Number: 119
Registered: 1-2008
Posted on Monday, 15 February, 2010 - 02:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The Lord giveth and he taketh away!
I finally got around to having a go at the rear door today. After shoulder barging it 3 times - *ouch* - it subsequently opened as normal (hunh?)
This permitted me to remove the door card and have a look at things - BUT ... there was no room to open the door fully, so I started to turn her round and ... ? Yup! The fuel pump stopped working!!! (I'll fix that as & when) If only she'd start on LPG I could forget about petrol all together. Anyhoo ... after thumping it a few times I got the float chambers filled enough to put her back where she came from, but facing the other way so I could carry on.
Then ...
Every time I tried to wangle the window switch out it just made the window go down even further - then it just started to work properly (very much hunh?). Now the door wouldn't lock and I can't see why Ggrrrr. Spraying a (very) generous quantity of freeing oil didn't help, although I finally jiggled the button just right and the door is locked again.
It looks like she'll just have to stay off the road until the weather warms up again. At least I've got the Estima running relatively sweetly so I'm not totally immobile in the meantime. One advantage is that The Beast, as I call, it will run happily @ 30mpg (~l0 litres/100kilometres) on veggie oil, most of which is filtered used/waste oil: (GBP)100 for 500 litres can't be bad, can it?
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Clifford Donley
Experienced User
Username: flatus

Post Number: 45
Registered: 12-2009
Posted on Monday, 15 February, 2010 - 03:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

But Jan, you really must enjoy the fragrance of fish and chips :-)

A mallet should be part of every mechanic's kit. And, years ago when electrical faults were pretty common, lots of people would test for voltage drop across problem circuits as switches were activated.

What I'm suggesting is that it's worth making that simple test just to verify that the problem is within the door rather than at some intermediate point in the circuit supplying the door's power.
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Jan Forrest
Prolific User
Username: got_one

Post Number: 126
Registered: 1-2008
Posted on Sunday, 11 April, 2010 - 04:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I know it's been a while, but I've finally got the fuel pump working reliably again and turned my attention to the central locking and windows.
Long story short: After several false starts I was able to repair the CL and it all works just fine. Unfortunately the same cannot be said for the windows ... None of the damn things work for various and sundry reasons Some things are fairly easily repairable, but at least two of the micro switches are past the point of no return and must be replaced (one actually fell apart when I removed it to check it out!).
I've seen several references to RS or Burgess replacements with no indication as to model number(s). It's not as if I can just throw any old switch in there as there's no way of knowing if the fittings or sizes are the same.
Any ideas?
Thanks in advance.
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Jan Forrest
Prolific User
Username: got_one

Post Number: 127
Registered: 1-2008
Posted on Sunday, 11 April, 2010 - 06:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

After sweating through the RS online catalogue I think I've come up with a possibility for replacement window motor switches ...
This looks like the right one
The dimensions and the connections match. Just the connector form is wrong. Perhaps they can be modified by some means - brute force comes to mind
Even the price is right.
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 2117
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Sunday, 11 April, 2010 - 06:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Perhaps the window lift article should be on the technical library. Let's see to that.

Just be sure that you use DC rated microswitches, available at any Jaycar shop in Australia for about $2. RS will sell the same. Be sure not to use AC-rated switches as they will not last long at all. Burgess, Tyco, Omron, Fuji or whatever will do. They are all made in China these days anyhow.

From the SY-SZ window lift modification site:

quote:

Note that replacement window lift microswitches, where required, must be DC rated. A suitable microswitch is the Omron V-21-1C6 , available at any industrial electrical supplier. This switch is ideally rated 21A at 250VAC, and 18 A at 14VDC.


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Jan Forrest
Prolific User
Username: got_one

Post Number: 180
Registered: 1-2008
Posted on Tuesday, 18 January, 2011 - 02:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Damn, blast, hell fire & damnation and ... words fail me. Now the driver's door is jammed shut. I've tried brute force - at least as much as I can on my own. No joy.
The symptoms: Using the central locking, either remote or via the door switches, the button pops up and immediately pops down again. If I hold it up and use either the inner or outer lock releases it stays firmly locked.
I've since pulled the door card away as best I can and can see that the locking rod moves all the way back to the locking system and I can - just - hold it 'unlocked' with no improvement. I simply cannot see any way of overriding the lock to get the door open. As you can appreciate I have a dichotomy here. I can't open the door until I've fixed it and I can't fix the door until I've opened it
Any ideas chums (and chumettes)?
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 2291
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Tuesday, 18 January, 2011 - 03:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Try isolating the battery and unlocking the door manually.
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Paul Yorke
Grand Master
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 711
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Tuesday, 18 January, 2011 - 06:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Jan, make sure the outside push button is free and COMPLETELY out. If it's stuck in even slightly it can jam the locking button down.

Are the striker plates lubricated? The lock will jam in the striker if it is completely dry. This fault will not usually cause the locking button to stick down though.
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Jan Forrest
Prolific User
Username: got_one

Post Number: 181
Registered: 1-2008
Posted on Wednesday, 19 January, 2011 - 08:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Success thanks to Paul! Even though the outside button appeared to be completely out, and didn't want to come out any further. I gave it and the keyhole a generous spray with some WD40 using a thin 'straw' to ensure it went where it would do the most good. I then pushed it in several times each time sliding my thumb off the button to ensure it was shocked out as far as possible. The oil carried quite a bit of dirt out with it, so once it opened (at the first attempt by the way) I followed up with several more than generous sprays into the locking mechanism via the catch on the edge of the door. If it seems a little reluctant in a few days after the oil has evaporated I may introduce some spray grease into all available orifices.
It may not be necessary as I had much the same problem with the rear door on a previous car. An Audi 100 IIRC. I used the same WD40 on that mechanism and never had to repeat it in the 4 years I kept the car.

Thanks again and keep up the good work boys and girls.
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Paul Yorke
Grand Master
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 712
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Wednesday, 19 January, 2011 - 10:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Good news Jan!

WD is fine for the button and barrel. Plus it is easy to replenish.

Happy motoring!

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