| Author | Message | ||
     Graeme Söderlund Frequent User Username: graemeaus Post Number: 21 Registered: 6-2003 |
Good afternoon Technical Experts, having a problem with the radiator on the car. After a drive, one normally expects a surge in temperature in the radiator, however, not only is there a surge in temperature,but a surge in coolant levels to the extent that a large quantity finishes up on the garage floor, someone else's driveway or any shopping Mall parking area. I note the radiator cap is the normal standard one, but it doesn't have any sort of rubber/neoprene gasket on it. Has anyone had the same problem? Or are there any suggestions before I take the next step and back flush/clean out the radiator, check the thermostat etc? (Even contemplating the Dare Watkins/Charles Wright system of cleaning out the radiator as recorded many years ago using ascetic acid and non-active foaming detergents. | ||
| RR Unregistered guest Posted From: 195.93.33.11 |
Confused. My car 1974 has a large black plastic screw cap in the header tank. The seal is fitted to a groove at the bottom of where you fill not to the cap. The relief valve is in the tank on top of the steam dome. held in with 6 2BA screws with a plate that mentions anti/freeze. It does not have a normal cap like my Merc van has. | ||
| whunter Prolific User Username: whunter Post Number: 67 Registered: 10-2003 |
Graeme Söderlund Contact Bill Coburn, the last issue of Tee One Topics covered this very well. Have a great day. | ||
| Bill Coburn Grand Master Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 102 Registered: 4-2003 |
Thankyou for the plug of the 'Topics' always pleasing to know that someone reads them. Not sure whether RR is making observations or questioning the situation. The screwed radiator cap should bed onto the soft rubber seal which clips into a ring at the bottom of the filler neck.. Check that this is still pliable and not cracked, any doubt replace it. Next check that the raised 'ring' on the face of the cap is not knicked if so replace it. To check the steam valve re-route the over-floow tube which runs down the right hand side of the radiator core to the ground and poke it into a plastic bottle which you tie up safely away from manifolds etc. After a good drive if you find copious fluids there the valve is cracking open far too early or the rubber seal under it has perished. For a more formal check go to a radiator shop and get them to pressurise the system and note at what pressure the over flow starts to leak. This figure should be not less than 10 psi and preferably in the 15 to 20 psi range. The Factory used two valves large and small the large is not available and if you have a car that needs one you will need to modify the header tank! Now Graeme what is a standard cap? The Bakelite one with the screw thread ? in which case see above. You may have a modified tanks with a conventional spring loaded cap from a Holden etc. These got over the problem of the steam valve and the knicked cap but were hideaously non-original! Ironically the Corniche in the '90's used this very system and piped the over flow into a plastic bottle on the left hand side of the engine compartment. If you are getting a lot of pressure build up in the system I would be looking for head gasket problems but again a system pressure check would confirm this or otherwise. As to cleaning the engine with ascetic acid, Graeme if you do this I will be on the next plane to personally re-arrange your pressure valve!!!! The Dare Watkins treatment was for cast iron blocks not aluminium. Worked well too. I also suggest you get some hose and hook up the overflow to a bottle to see what is going where! Let's know how you get on! Cheers. | ||
| Bob Uk Unregistered guest Posted From: 195.93.33.11 |
I have found that once a rad is sludged up that the rad needs a recore. Often the only thing stopping the core from leaking is the sludge and scale I find the best way to flush water ways in engines is to connect the engine heater hoses to the water main --- mine is about 5 psi in my area. And leave running then reverse the flow. A couple of hours won't hurt depends if the water is metered mine is not. Be careful with aluminium and chemicals. To check the steam valve you need to pressurise the system and with a pressure gauge see what pressure the valve blows at. I checked mine by removing the header tank and pumping the tank up with a foot pump the gauge on the foot pump showed 13lbs which I considered good enough To connect the foot pump I used a bit of hose which a tyre valve clamped in the end with a hose clip and clamped the small pipe with a brake hose clamp. The tank will pump up quicker if it has some water in it. The screws that hold the steam valve snap easy. The seal for the cap can be made from rubber sheet I used a piece of car inner tube because the shops were shut. It worked so well that I never bothered to fit the new one which is still in the box 3 years later. My car 1974 does not lose or use water except when the stat jammed shut and it went off like a geyser. It was really embrassing I was in my best clothes in the middle of a shopping mall with a 6750cc petrol driven kettle and an audience. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 107 Registered: 4-2003 |
Interesting. Our '72 T-Series had no less than eight new steam valves in its first four years, then never again. I guess the factory finally fixed the inherant problem in 1976. I change the coolant every two years and there has never been any sludge or corrosion: it is as clean as a whistle. If the concentration is kept up and the coolant is changed, the radiator should last forever unless physically damaged. If for some reason a new core is needed, it should cost no more than A$700 for a really superior modern NATRA D-type louvred fin type matrix made in South Australia or Kingsgrove, a matrix which usefully has twice the cooling capacity of the original. I finally bit the bullet and put one, the first new core for this car, in my 50 year old R-Type last September mainly because, I assume, I stupidly had inadequate antifreeze and the last cold winter split it as it was leaking a little. My local Canberra radiator shop did it in one day and I bruised a few knuckles removing and replacing it. Yes, a jammed thermostat can be spectacular. Best throw them away every 5 years. However, Graeme, do change the thermostat and try it out before jumping to any other conclusions like a blown head gasket prematurely. | ||
| Pat Lockyer Unregistered guest Posted From: 81.131.90.109 |
Reverse flushing of engine & radiator is a good idea after the repairs,ie thermostat relief valves, headgaskets etc. Must use a reverse flush pressure type and use as follows, First disconect the radiator bottom hose from the n/s engine alloy pipe fit a reverse flush tool to the rad hose fit a water hose to the end of the flush tool. Remove the top hose from the thermostat housing & position downwards. Leave the rad cap on. Turn the water hose on fully, when the water is flowing from the top rad outlet pressurize the reverse flush tool with compressed air, the water will be seen to bring up all the sediment from the bottom & top of the rad. When the water is flowing clear & freely the rad is ok. Next is the engine block. Turn the heater water control off re dash control Remove the thermostat housing, remove the thermostat refit the housing. On the water alloy pipe on the n/s fit the reverse flush tool, turn the water on when it is flowing out the thermostat housing pressurize the flush tool this may take a few attempts before the water clears as all the sediment around & below the wet linners is forced out. When completed a new themostat should be fitted & a inhibbiter type antifreeze used.} | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 191 Registered: 4-2003 |
Have included photo below of my cooling system flushing gun adapted from a compressed air engine cleaning gun. The inspiration for this gun came from a similar unit made by George Shores from the ACT Self-Help Group however I use a cup adaptor rather than a cone adaptor to connect to the system. Using 700kPa water and 700kPa [100psi] air pressure; this is very effective in removing muck from the system.  | ||
| Graeme Söderlund Frequent User Username: graemeaus Post Number: 22 Registered: 6-2003 |
Thanks everyone, I will get onto the problem this weekend and will advise the results. I have a set of plugs/nozzles from my twenty hp days for reverse flushing so will get them back into use. Bill, you are more than welcome to visit anytime, even if it is under the threat of the Dare Watkins Claning System. I remember using this system on the Silver Wraith I had during the 70's with great effect. I don't recall having heard that Matt Smith, the current owner had any further problems with the radiator. And yes, the standard cap I am referring to is the bakelite model with screw thread - it has not been changed. I don't think there is any seal left at the bottom but will check this weekend. Thanks again everyone - will move onto the job and advise what happens. Graeme. | ||
| Martin Taylor Experienced User Username: martin_taylor Post Number: 6 Registered: 11-2003 |
I'm dealing with similar problems myself after my thermostat also stuck shut. I replaced the rubber gasket in the steam valve and tested it, this was not the problem but appeared so because the coolant was coming out the overflow hose. If your header tank cap leaks either due to cracks or a tired rubber seal coolant will come out the same overflow pipe as there is a drain at the rear facing side of the cap screw thread, this can be seen with a mirror or with the header tank removed. I believe it is there to drain overflow and to remove hot coolant should one open the cap when the system is pressurised. The pressure test mentioned above can be misleading as it will not identify the cause between the cap and the steam valve unless one of the outlet drains is blocked off respectivly. I had to remove the header tank to work this out myself. I like the idea of the foot pump, I will be making one of those. | ||
| BOB UK Unregistered guest Posted From: 195.93.33.11 |
In the UK we don't get the extremes of heat so we use the standard core. This cost £200 which is not too bad. They also repair tanks. The header tank is a lovely shape normally they are a square box. What I like is that providing one is carefull the asembley will last for years with the maybe the odd seal-- all of which are cheap. RR could have put the relief valve in the cap and made it a little bit cheaper and more money to maintain. Shadows are lovely toys to play with because everything comes apart. With light nicks to the cap --maybe a dress up on a lathe would work . It may even be possible to re-machine the cap a bit shorter while turning a new edge. I did a very similar thing to a Honda Shadow motor bike. The filler for the cooling system had pitted where the seal sealed so I skimmed it flat -- took 5 thou off and skimmed the top the same amount so that the spring tension was the same. Spot on good as new. The filler was over a £100 new. Makes RR parts seem cheap. My lathe (Holbrook gap bed 12 swing -lead screw and gearing for screw cutting)was made in 1898 and is driven by a Austin Seven gearbox and a big fridge motor. A lathe is a must for serious mechanicing so much more becomes possible. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 108 Registered: 4-2003 |
Yes, radiators are indeed repairable up to a point. I had mine on the R-Type cleaned out three times, but that is about the limit for a 50-year-old lump of low-grade post-war copper. By last September, several coolant tubes had been blanked off with solder due either to damage on cleaning them out over half a Century, or more commonly due to stones thrown up on country roads. Coolants years ago were not so good and gunked the system, but on a newer car radiators should last forever. Plastic tanks like on my BMW do fatigue (it cost me twice the price of a Shadow radiator when it clagged out at three years old), and I hope the radiator, also from BEHR in Germany, doesn't suffer the same way with its plastic tanks on my Turbo R. In the UK, an exchange Shadow radiator costs £230 + VAT, a total of around £300 delivered (eg from Introcar or Flying Spares), about the same price as in Oz. An original core type is available from New Zealand at around £700 fitted to the tanks, but the new NATRA D-types are a really worthwhile improvement if authenticity is not so important. New caps are cheap at £35 delivered. | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 193 Registered: 4-2003 |
Bob - you lucky person to own a lathe of this vintage; the modern lathes are not as rigid or stable as the old lathes as the manufacturers do not allow any time for the cast iron to "season" [stabilise] after casting and before machining. It was normal practice to rough machine the castings after an initial storage period then leave them outside exposed to extremes of temperature for at least 6 months to allow the casting stresses to relieve before final machining and grinding for sale. Unfortunately these lathes were also very heavy and modern practice is to make the castings as light as possible however this is at the cost of rigidity [accuracy]. Most old lathes were sold for scrap when they were due for reconditioning in the belief modern lathes were better [would agree modern CNC machining stations meet this criteria]. Anyone looking for a medium size workshop lathe [250/300mm {10/12inch}] swing would be well advised to look for an old Myford, Hercus {Australia only} or South Bend {USA} lathe and, if the ways are in reasonable condition, have it reconditioned with new higher-rated electric motor, gearbox/headstock bearings and lead/feed screws. The cost will be higher than an equivalent new lathe but the accuracy and alignment will be superior to the Chinese/Taiwanese/Indian modern units. Bob's statement that a lathe is a necessity for serious car maintenance/restoration is absolutely correct. If you have no machining experience, most technical and night colleges run beginners courses for lathe/milling machine work otherwise your local model engineering society will have many retired/semi-retired machinists who are only too happy to pass on their experience and skills to anyone who is interested. | ||
| Bobuk Unregistered guest Posted From: 195.93.33.11 |
The lathe is very heavy. The mass gives it stability. I call this anvil effect. The skills required to work a lathe are not differcult grasp. an additional skill required is off hand tool grinding--- using a bench grinder to make cutting tools from high speed steel. Which would be taught along side turning. I was very fortunate to be an EX -apprentice engineer within my first week I was being taught turning because the skill is so usefull. 15 years old. A lathe such as mine will also turn wood and I made a replacement newel post. Also things like king pin bushes which you just cannot get. The Shadow has spacers every where I see so many missing that I have bits of steel and alloy ready for a spacer I can make them quicker than buying them. every one tailor made. I don't pack things with washers and nuts --I make a spacer. Also I can lock the head stock and use it for undoing large nuts I have when all else has failed machined the nut off to save the expensive bits. Lathes do turn up for sale often the catch being that you arrange transport and they are 3 phase. I saw a bargin last year in Ex and Mart Colchester Truimph lathe with chucks face plate steadies. Plonk it on the floor level it plug it in. They don't need to be bolted down. £1500 However the thing weighs 3 ton and needs a least 5 hp motor. Which in the UK on single phase is fowned upon by the electric companies. A solution is that because the lathe has a clutch is to use an engine. I know of a big Micthell Lathe that is driven by a BMC diesel. They take 1/2 inch deep cuts and you can hear the engine working hard. So if you have the space for a very reasonable price you can have your own machine shop. I paid £250 for the lathe in 1984. £200 for 400 amp MIG/MAG welder. 1993. I spent £100 getting the lathe working. I then used the lathe itself to make the bits to overhaul it. These 2 pieces of equipment -- plus other hand tools have on many occasions saved the day when a job has gone wrong and allowed me to take on jobs where others can't I am at present looking for Bridgeport type milling machine. Best I found was a 1983 with a Ferranti digital read out for £3000 which is way out of my price range. All the machinery I have brought is worn but not worn out. My lathe is only now accurate within 6 inches of the chuck as workpieces get longer it turns tapers of up to 2 thou . the real skill is working round this so that you get an accurate job. Before you work any piece of machinery you must have safety guidance. The lathe happens to be one of those machines that appear benign it has a set of dangers which are not so obvious. In 35 years I have never had an accident using a lathe but I know some that have --always because they didn't know. There is a publication devoted soley to turning for DIY this is the best place to start and the public library. Chapman's Workshop Practice is a good book which explians lots. The word lathe comes from a lathe of wood which was used as a spring to return a peice of rope that was wrap arong the work peice spining between centres like an axle. The oldest recording of such a machine dates back to the invention of the wheel. The machine was invented to make axles. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 109 Registered: 4-2003 |
When I was at school, we had elective, non-examinable lessons in art, woodwork or metalwork. I always chose metalwork until the teacher kicked me out for being a prat and not wanting the other options. We had a number of Hercus lathes which I tended to hog. The teacher gave us classroom sessions followed by workshop practice. He is a notorious old blighter so I won't drop his name. We were never allowed to start the lathe until he inspected the setup, and if he didn't like you (and he didn't like me at all) that took two hours to achieve. On one memorable day, he lectured to us that "you would never take a piece off a Rolls-Royce at home and take it to a shop, so never take a job from the lathe before it is finished". The lathe part is OK, but the rest. Hmmn. The analogy is a bit obtuse. Straight afterwards, as pre-arranged and agreed with him, I was doing a private clean-up lathe job on a small Rolls-Royce shaft. When he asked what it was from, I meekly said it was from a Holden. Then he saw the RE part number stamped on it and hit the roof knowing it was from a R-R. He stormed out and never spoke to me again. | ||
| Bob UK Unregistered guest Posted From: 195.93.33.11 |
I have met a few characters in my time as well. A fitter that I worked with got upset with the boss so he shot the lights out in his office with an airgun. We stood there in stunned silence and someone said " he'll be getting the sack then " Some people I have met think that you need permission to work on RRs and that RR will confiscate the car if you do. When John Lennon painted his car the Queen got letters demanding that because She the boss of RR and The Queen She should have the car seized and John Lennon imprisoned. An open question. If you had the car would you keep as John Lennon had it or would you restore to as RR intended. The present owners I believe have restored it to John Lennon Livery. | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 195 Registered: 4-2003 |
Bob; an easy question to answer, keep it as John Lennon owned it. The history of R-R/B cars has always included the fact that owners almost always were successful in obtaining cars made to their personal preferences unless the factory dug their heels in and refused requests they considered were not appropriate e.g. a tow bar for a caravan as I related in another post on this forum. In the days of coachbuilt bodies, some of the owner-selections were not exactly ones which epitomised style and good taste and Lennon's psychedelic paintwork on the Shadow is in the continuation of the tradition of "eccentric owners" [usually British]. However, I have no personal objection to the psychedelic car as it is a true representation of the times when they car was delivered to him. | ||
| William H. Trovinger II Prolific User Username: bill_trovinger Post Number: 75 Registered: 8-2003 |
Was there not some guru (or some sort of self-proclaimed snake oil salesmen) in Texas that had a dozen or more RRs that where painted all sorts of different ways? I remember something of this when the IRS seized all his cars and auctioned them off. Do not remember if these where purchased new or not. Regards, Bill | ||
| Chris Gillings Moderator Username: chrisg Post Number: 20 Registered: 5-2001 |
Re: painting of RR vehicles, please see http://au.rrforums.net/forum/messages/30/440.html | ||
| Serge PONTES New User Username: serrgio Post Number: 2 Registered: 1-2004 |
Hi everybody, just to ask if I can use a "normal" modern coolant bought in any place, or if I have to be carefull for my 1976's shadow 1 ? thanks serge | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 114 Registered: 4-2003 |
Practically any coolant available today is fine if the concentration is high enough. To my knowledge, they are all inhibited ethylene glycol, but to be safe do not use the cheapest. If the concentration is enough for a temperature of -25C, that will do fine, and corrosion should never occur. Additives should, in my opinion, be avoided. I have heard of some glycol coolants at A$1 per litre, but would not trust them. I trust any main brand as safe, but never mix them: BP, ESSO, Shell, Mobil, Castrol, Total, Agip, Valvoline, Sonax, Pennzol, Kennedy etc. | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 197 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hi Serge, One additional comment to Richard's advice; always change the coolant every two years regardless of what distance the car has been driven in that time. The glycol solution does break down over time and the end result is severe corrosion of the aluminium components if the fluid is not changed early enough. Experience has shown two years provides an adequate safety margin before corrosion increases to dangerous levels. You may note some pre-mixed coolants claim to remain effective for 4 years or more however I personally would not use them for this period of time. I will wait until they have been on the market for 20 years or more and we can see if they do work as claimed without unforesenn problems. The cost of replacing the coolant every two years is cheap insurance against an expensive engine replacement due to corrosion. | ||
| Serge PONTES New User Username: serrgio Post Number: 3 Registered: 1-2004 |
Hi Richard and David thanks for your answers and advoice. I already read that I have to change my coolant every 2 years and have plained to do when good weather will come back in Paris... I use "normal" coolant given for 118°C to -25° so I think it will be ok. thanks for all ! by seRRgio | ||
| John Aravanis Unregistered guest Posted From: 213.5.99.93 |
Hi all, bought myself a '70 Shadow (SRH8685), and did all the relevant work regarding brakes, engine, suspension etc. Car had been neglected for the last 4 years. For the first 1000 miles(driving the car from Germany to Greece) the temperature gauge needle barely made into the white region of the scale. Replaced the thermostat (was stuck open) and the sender unit, and then the temperature went to the middle of the range, and continiued up to the end of the white range near the letter "H". The car was used in traffic, highway, and I detected no suspicious overheating symptoms from the engine. An infrared thermometer reading on the thermostat housing gave me around 87 degrees. Put on the old sender, and the gauge will not register more than the 2 millimeters it will when switching on the ignition. I have now removed the thermostat completely -temperatures in Greece are rising fast this time of the year- and don't know what to do. Will the removal of the thermostat harm the car's operation in any way? I have no coolant leakage, the viscous coupling seems to work fine, and the radiator/engine block were reverse flushed(water only no compressed air) with the addition of a mild cleaner. Thanks in advance for any help, John | ||
| John Dare Unregistered guest Posted From: 144.138.194.104 |
Hello John; Even after "expert" advice re trialling different senders,I eventually gave up with the elec.temp. gauge/sender combo/s on my 70 Shadow (8058). Gauge would generally read "cool" (when engine WASNT!) and sometimes right over on "H" when I dont believe it WAS "hot"!. In desperation, I fitted a mechanical gauge/capilliary sender type(plumbed to the water jacket in the inlet manifold - LHS) which now provides a very accurate reading; maintaining 180/190 deg.F,within 5 minutes of normal commuter operation,after start up, or 205F with air cond. on (in traffic) with ambient (summer) temp of 100F. The story goes, that early in the Shadow production the gauges/senders were deliberately selected to indicate a temperature on the "cooler" end of the scale as many of the first (initial production) Shadow owners had regularly complained to dealers that their engines (aluminium) operated at "hotter" overall temps. than those experienced in previously owned cast iron blocked 6 cyl.cars etc. As a consequence of alleged friction between Crewe and the gauge/sender mnfrs., the gauge was eventually deleted altogether as the latter were apparently unwilling to continue with an arrangement which could not reflect accurate temps.in general service. An absurd outcome when you consider that few (if any) cars today would/should be without a temp. gauge. This information was from the "inside" and conveyed to me by people who began working on Shadows in 1966. If anyone disagrees (or scoffs) at this, OR has succeeded in making the original combos read accurately, please respond politely and offer constructive commentary to assist resolution of this well known and long standing problem. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 210 Registered: 4-2003 |
John D, You add to my recollections. York Motors told my father that there is no temperature gauge in his T-Series as they were deleted around 1969 (I thought) when the new safety dashboard was introduced. Maybe your 1970 car proves that they were deleted later, but maybe yours was converted in the past: a look at the owner's manual would confirm this. Not only did the early temperature gauges show a high temperature, but a reading at the high end of the dial in the warning range, so R-R took the coward's route and deleted them. I was not aware that recalibrated senders or dials were ever retrofitted, but it does not surprise me at all. Yorks recommended fitting an aftermarket temperature gauge in place of the ammeter, but never dared to do so themselves. Funny how my Turbo R uses the identical thermostat, but has never budged from 1/4 into the OK reading zone after a few kilometers either in -25C or +40C ambients. RT. | ||
| John Aravanis Unregistered guest Posted From: 213.5.26.165 |
Thanks John and Richard, the end point is, do I drive the car without a thermostat in the 100 plus degrees of Greek summer? I have some info from the company that took over Smiths, and they asked me to send them my gauge and sender and they will calibrate it to work properly. Another source told me to remove the gauge ( wires connected) and with a operating temperature engine, loosen the two small hex nuts behind the gauge and effectively move the coils ( left or right ) thus altering the field ( sensitivity ?) inside the gauge, hence the reading. I will try it over the weekend and let you know. John | ||
| Bill Coburn Grand Master Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 172 Registered: 4-2003 |
John I would advise putting the thermostat back in. These cars operate quite satisfactorily in the hottest climates in the world . We tend to equate disaster with temperatures of around 100 degrees C. 'Boiling' means spitting banging plumes of steam and coolant blowing all over the engine and generally presenting as a frightening spectacle. There is also I suspect an inate fear in all of us of being scalded particularly with 'boiling' water. So when owners see that dreaded reading on their gauges they start to squirm. One should not worry. As long as the system stays intact pressure wise and there is no coolant loss all should be right with the world. Removing the thermostat however not only delays heating the engine up to a good operating temperature which does a lot of damage but it also allows the full force of the water pump into the radiator core which is simply not designed to cope with it. In other words the thermostat operates as a restriction valve. On other cars I have had thermostats fail with no replacement available and have pulled the failed one out cut the guts out of it and replaced the frame so that there is still some restriction there. In short running any engine without a thermostat is a practice that died immediately after the second world war. Don't start it again! | ||
| John Dare Unregistered guest Posted From: 144.138.194.80 |
Thank you Richard and Bill; I often suggest to Shadow 1 owners that they fit a temperature gauge in lieu of the ammeter(where fitted) the latter being of dubious practical value. Richard confirms this as having been suggested by Yorks some years ago. I suppose the question is what TYPE of gauge and I favour something with similar face graphics, 50mm o.d (for ease of installation) and of MECHANICAL operation rather than elec. To John A (the original poster) I say this only because I had two entirely different instrument makers/elec. repairers trial different senders with the original Smiths (elec) gauge incl. so-called "calibration" of both components and NEITHER ever reflected a "true" temperature, either indicating too cold or too hot. I hope that you have more success in this regard. The eventual installation of a mechanical gauge (cross checked against another gauge!) showed that my engine HAD been operating at normal temps. in a variety of driving situations and ambient temps!. As Bill C correctly notes, the thermostat should not be removed except of course to replace it at the prescribed interval since these engines are MOST unforgiving if overheated. Please review my earlier post noting that my car reaches normal temp. within 5 mins of start up, thanks to the thermostatic control of the coolant. I am somewhat paranoid about the cooling and lubrication of these (expensive) engines given the costs associated with the neglect of either. | ||
| John Aravanis Unregistered guest Posted From: 213.5.27.32 |
Hello Bill and John, again thanks for your time. The reason I pulled the (new) thermostat out was that while having the intake manifold out in order to replace/upgrade the brake pump actuator housings, I discovered a fair amount of deposits in the water passages ( more in the four rear or front cylinder passages- I don't remember). Looked like lime/scale deposits,the kind you see building up in caves. Thinking that the passages are already somewhat restricted from these deposits-the removal of the stat. seemed like a good idea in order to facilitate water circulation. Obviously these cannot be removed by flushing, although I created a contraption like the one shown further up in this subject, and will use water with air pressure to reverse flush the rad. and the engine block(again), then re-install the thermostat. Another strange observation I have made is the extreme pitch of the radiator fan blades. A little more and the fan would be feathered as we say in aviation. | ||
| Bill Coburn Grand Master Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 173 Registered: 4-2003 |
Another fourpence worth John. Don't use the engine to self flush scale. It is bits and pieces of this stuff that block radiator tubing and eventually you get no cooling. The thing has then to come off the bottom tank removed and specially shaped rods jammed up its dumfungas to poke the bits out through the top - if they will come out . Often they jam so tight the rod breaks through the tube and it has to be sealed. Pre war engines had an awful lot of trouble in this department and if they were of the honeycomb type could not be 'rodded'. Owners used to make up wire mesh 'tea strainers' that fitted in the upper radiator hose and these collected the bits as they came through. Quite a number of ladies lost the foot of their nylons for a similar use. The pitch on the fan is impressive but remember they only 'bite' when the viscous fan unit locks up. You will know when this happens as the car will suddenly lurch forward with its new found propulsion method and if you have the radio on the local air traffic control will come across asking whether you need clearance for take off!!! | ||
| John Aravanis Unregistered guest Posted From: 213.5.29.164 |
Apart from my new thread regarding rear suspension adjustment ( it must be easier to locate a space shuttle mechanic than a Royce mechanic in Athens-really!! they are extinct), I drove my Shadow in 90+ degrees fahrenheit traffic today, in the pre-Olympic games stricken Athens with the A/C on full. While I was expecting to see the steam geyzer rise from the front (promptly kept to the right all the time), nothing happened. With the psycological support of my temperature gauge showing near cold everything went OK. So I guess the terror of overheating has left me. Thanks for your help people. John |
