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Message |
    
Rick Spain
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 211.30.41.186
| | Posted on Saturday, 10 January, 2004 - 04:51 pm: |    |
Hi there, I'm after a bit advice, the doors on my 72 corniche have dropped ever so slightly, they used to shut with minimal effort, is this something I can tackle myself or one for the professionals, any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Rick. |
David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore
Post Number: 168
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, 10 January, 2004 - 10:05 pm: | |
Hi Rick,
This is a common Corniche problem caused by cracking around the hinge mounting points on the actual door frame. Rectification is a job for a R-R/B repair specialist as strengthening plates have to be welded in to prevent further cracking.
If the mounting bolts had lost tension and allowed the doors to move out of alignment; the doors would have sagged very quickly to the point where they would be extremely difficult if not impossible to close. Raligning doors is an art and not a science and requires two or preferably three people supporting the door whilst the mounting bolts are secured to achieve success.
PLEASE DO NOT TRY TO FIX THE SHUTTING PROBLEM BY REALIGNING THE STRIKER PLATE ON THE DOOR PILLAR - THIS SHOULD REMAIN IN THE ORIGINAL POSITION FOR A PROPERLY ALIGNED DOOR SO REALIGNMENT OF THE DOOR AFTER REPAIR IS FACILITATED. |
Robert Chapman
Experienced User
Username: shadow
Post Number: 9
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, 11 January, 2004 - 09:14 pm: | |
Hi Rick,
David is quite right it is very likely that the hinge mounting has broken because of fatigue.The fault in the design was that the arm of the hinge was far to short for such a long and heavy door.As the hinge arm cannot be lengthened the key to a successful repair is to strengthen the mounting and bring it further into the door.This will reduce the effective leverage length of the door over the hinge arm.Could I also suggest that whilst the door is removed check and if necessary replace the wires that go through the door hinge. |
Rick
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 211.30.42.227
| | Posted on Monday, 19 January, 2004 - 08:33 pm: | |
Thank you Gentleman, I'll leave it for the experts
I think i've got to it early maybe this will help;
regards Rick. |
BOB UK
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 195.93.33.11
| | Posted on Saturday, 24 January, 2004 - 03:59 am: | |
If the hinges and the surrounding structure are sound and all that has happened is that the hinges are worn and /or the post or the hinge mounting area of the door is deformed is pulled slightly out of line by the weight of door when open
The drivers door will be worse than the passenger door.
Open the door and try lifting the door.
If the door closes ok by holding the weight and the swages and trim are in alignment. Then there is a quick fix which works on most cars.
mark and remove the striker plate then carefull shut the door and check the swages again.
You find that the door is now low on the swages.
Using a floor jack and a stout piece on wood jack the door up on the frame against the weight of the car. With the door just open enough to get the jack in.
BE VERY CAREFULL AND HAVE AN ASSISTANT HOLD THE DOOR IN THE OPEN POSITION. AND LISTEN VERY CAREFULLY FOR ANY CREAKING NOISES. WHICH WILL MEANS THAT THE HINGE AREA IS STRUCTURAL UNSOUND AND STOP IMMEDIATELY AND GO TO A PANEL SHOP
The idea is that the hinge area will bend sligthly and lift the rear of the door.
The door should line up with the swages and then refit the striker plate.
A very slight mis alingement is OK because the striker plate will correct it with out any snagging on the striker
The most you can lift a door like this is about 1.5 mm at the door lock.
Or place shims under the bottom hinge where it bolts to the car.
Or take shims that may be fitted to the top hinge and maybe put one of these under the bottom hinge.
By now you are stunned that I should suggest this.
But I have seen this down many many times to get doors just right.
Also another problem that I used to come across was that the bottom of a door would fit perfect but the top frame would be standing out a tad and not sealing against the rubber so I would wind down the window put my knee against the door and bend the frame in a tad.
As shown to me many years ago at the Pressed Steel factory by the guys that built varoius makes of car bodies for such people as BMC and RR and Rover and Black Cabs.
Slightly is a tad and a tad is half a smidgen and a smidgen is not measurable.
What I am saying that you must have a feel for the metal.
As a stop gap adjust the striker plate down a tad so that it does not suffer excessive wear
Best way to garantee that the striker plat ends up in the same place is to drill through the plate and body with an 3mm drill and use pop rivets as temporary dowels.
But you may find that the stricker has been moved in the past.
And oil the hinges.
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore
Post Number: 173
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, 24 January, 2004 - 08:18 am: | |
Bob,
I would agree with your suggestions for an ordinary Shadow but never for the Corniche. Rick's problem is one that is unique to Corniches and is caused by the greater bending moment from the longer doors placing extra stress on the hinge mounting points and the Corniche door frame is not strong enough hence the need for reinforcement.
The technique you suggest will not fix the problem or even provide a short term remedy as the fatigue cracks are already present - stress forming the metal as per your technique will not move the parent metal back into alignment but will extend the existing cracks by tearing the metal causing the doors to drop further.
I am well aware of this problem as it is present in our Corniche. |
William H. Trovinger II
Prolific User
Username: bill_trovinger
Post Number: 61
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, 24 January, 2004 - 02:38 pm: | |
David;
This problem is not alone that of The Corniche. Many if not all drop heads coupes with uni-bodies share this same problem. The longer door combined with the flexing of the car over bumps causes the problem. My '73 Mustang has twice in its' life had the hinges replaced and second time the pillars behind them reinforced. Most likely the worst cases of this can be seen in the "after-market" convertible conversations done to Cadillac Eldorado (and others) in the late seventies and early eighties. The conversion companies did little to reinforce the body after removing the rear pillar, normally just a simple "X" brace was added.
Regards,
Bill
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bob uk
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 195.93.33.11
| | Posted on Sunday, 25 January, 2004 - 06:31 am: | |
You are right about cracks. I have come across this on other coupes. The steel bits are reasonsable straight forward but always the amount of stripping down to do a perfect job is exstensive. The alloy bits complicates things no end.
If cracks are present then the door will drop very quickly back to the sag position and a bit more. Which is why I stop if I hear any thing creak.
I have fitted lots of doors and ever one has been a struggle to get right and have found the tighter the shut line the harder it is. About the worse I have come across is Jag MK IIs .
At least the same door will be going back on the same car. Thats where the fun really starts -- non original doors.
Convertibles are really hard because I seen so many where the car has sagged and the doors are not right and never will be.
It is so hard to brace a car that has no roof.
Most convertibles if you put you finger across the shut line and drive down the road you will feel the shut line move around.
The Corniche is one of the better cars.
Triumph Spitfires moved so much that the interior mirror was un-usable.
The rag tops the Bill pointed out were particular nasty. We had a few outfits in the UK who did the same. I drove a Ford Capri that shuddered really bad over anything more than ripple and if you pushed the car in to corners on the brakes it got very entertianing. I delivered it to the Isle of Wright where hopefully it stayed because there is a 40 mph limit on the Wright.
About the best Rag Top I found for robustness is the SL Mercs from the 60s and 70s.
I wonder if the groves in the sills are why the car is so stiff.
Maybe we have an expert on stress anynalise who could explain.
I worked very briefly for an outfit called Crayford upgrading Ford Xflow engines for convertible MkII Cortina. ( 67-71)
I used to check out the cars before they trimed to see how they did it. before they cut the roof they welding in a lot of bracing around the door posts in 18swg even behind the dash.
I engines needed more power because the convertible weighed 200 kg more than the donor car.
They done Corsair 2000E as well but the upgrades that I done on the V4 engines made an already iffy engine worse. And most had worn out by 40,000 miles. Very heavy car for 2 litres.
Unfortunately also cowboys were getting used Cortinas and chopping the roofs off and passing them off as genuine Ford Approved Crayfords. Always base 2 door 1300 Models tarted up with 1600E parts often from stolen cars.
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