| Author | Message | ||
     luke vero Yet to post message Username: louisv Post Number: 1 Registered: 1-2007 |
Hi all, great forum. Im new to RR ownership and getting to grips with the layout of everything.I have searched for an answer on this forum with no luck. My low mileage (38,000) UK shadow SRH 18738 (1974) failed to start last week- it would 'catch' and rev until key was returned to run position and then it died everytime (incidently it had recently stalled at traffic lights and whilst idling a few times before complete failiure).My engineer uncle corrrectly diagnosed the problem as a faulty ballast resistor-bentley part number UE34105 -£23 sterling, when plugged in to connectors the car immediately started with no trouble at all.Now i need to fit it properly and remove the old one.Its right down near the firewall/scuttle bolted to the coil mounts - but access to get a socket driver down there is virtually impossible?and even leaning over and down is really hard- what needs to be removed to finish the job properly? Does part of the heater box need to come out? Help would be greatly appreciated- Luke in London UK. PS change your ballast's as others on the forum have warned-its not something you want to do at the roadside! | ||
| Paul Yorke New User Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 5 Registered: 6-2006 |
Hi Luke, It is a horrible fiddly job. You should not have to remove anything, but will need either: A) a well trained monkey or octopus or B) A box to stand on, a 1/2" 13mm deep socket or short extension and a 12" cable tie. ( a friend would be good ) With a cool engine and lots of contorting: I usually do it from the right hand side and lean right across. You need a ratchet (I use 1/4" drive with a swivel head) and extension / socket which is the right length to clear the coil but not foul the bulkhead. There is a spacer behind the resistor so keep an eye (fingers) on it as you remove the bolt. Getting it back together is the tricky bit with the spacer wanting to escape and you can't hold it from the right hand side. This is where the cable tie trick comes in! Put the cable tie on the spacer and you now have a handle to hold it with! Fiddly as I say, but not impossible. Good Luck! If you do break down and find yourself at the side of the road and need a 'get you home fix' . . . . pull the wires off each end of the resistor and joint them together with a spade connector (I borrow one from the blower fan connectors ) This will work fine but don't be tempted to leave it like that - you will be running your coil on 12v instead of 9V.} | ||
| Bill Coburn Moderator Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 857 Registered: 4-2003 |
Luke monkeys and octopii aside I am very sympathetic to the high car short legs and arms and possibly big gut problem as they affect access. For the Phantom I have a long simple box about 10 inches high to stand on, any higher and you tend to fall into the engine. For a quick solution take the front wheels off and lower the car gently to the ground. That will help muchly. | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 692 Registered: 4-2003 |
The greatest enemy for ballast resistor longevity is heat [surprisingly as a resistor generates heat when in use], the original location on the bulkhead is one which does not get a lot of air movement when travelling and consequently the resistor gets hotter than its manufacturers designed it for. Several past contributors on this topic have suggested relocating the ballast resistor to the front of the engine bay where it can receive some outside cooling air - not "original" to suit concours enthusiasts but a practical solution for driving enthusiasts. | ||
| luke vero New User Username: louisv Post Number: 2 Registered: 1-2007 |
Many thanks chaps - very helpfull advice, i was about to see if removing the heater box would make it easier. Unfortunately i could'nt find any monkeys or octopuseses to help - but managed it myself in the end. I was trying to do it with a heavy duty half inch drive kit that just wont fit. I wonder who decided to position it way down there? Not a nice job when its about minus one with snow on the ground and a chilling wind(even with car undercover)I like to keep cars running all year round even if its the odd trip every couple of weeks so needed to fix that damn ballast. Anyway roll on the summer in UK - Aircon is next on the list, im sure that will be fun..(ive been reading the forums for best approach) Incedently David im a beliver in driving and enjoying cars and so subtle mods make sense to me - ( my shadow 1 has an airdam/spoiler that was fitted when the shadow 2 came out - so its been on my car for 30 years- i feel it belongs there now., im also thinking of fitting a breakerless ignition kit in the future as i dont like messing with points. | ||
| Peter Colwell Experienced User Username: peter_colwell Post Number: 39 Registered: 3-2005 |
Your reference to 'messing with points' made me reflect on something. How many people notice that the old engines, -usually with points ignition, and SU carburettors, - usually start with one revolution of the crankshaft, when in good condition of course. Modern engines, even the very expensive ones, may be very reliable, but I don't know of any that start like that. Most seem to do a running start as they motor over several times... Just an observation, but it is very sweet to hear an old Jaguar, Bentley, Rover and many other English cars, just click, and they are running quietly.... | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 669 Registered: 9-2004 |
I wonder if the Nipo geared starter gives the moderm effect on the SS etc when fitted,sorry for late reply as i only have just seen the posting. | ||
| Paul Yorke Experienced User Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 19 Registered: 6-2006 |
Pat, I think it's more to do with the fueling than the starter motor. Older lower compresion engines do seem to start much more sweetly, especially when used regularly. Can you imagine trying to hand crank a modern engine? In a perfect world, where cars are used regularly, batteries never get low, and garages are warm and dry I wouldn't bother changing the points to electronic ignition. But even in that world I WOULD fit a modern starter to all R-R & B V8 cars. I'm sure anybody with a Cloud or S-Type that, with a few spares hours on a sunny day, have jumped into their car full of enthusiasm - only to turn the key and hear their engine turning over so slowly that your heart sinks into your boots. It may start you think, gripping the key extra tightly, willing it start, holding your breath as it turns one more time. You know you daren't let go of the key because it will not have enough 'omph' to get the engine turning again from standstill. She eventuall catches, or stranger still, you then release the key and she purrs into life. Maybe you then drive straight to the petrol station to get a repeat performance from the old girl? We used to fit ballast coils and modify the ignition circuit to help reduce this effect. ( Not enough electrical power to crank the engine AND provide a good spark for ignition, for those that are still wondering what is going on! ) Then, when electronic ignition became more reliable and affordable, we used to convert them to that. Now - We have the 'NIPO' starter motor, as Pat called it. Small , light, powerful,and IMHO the best step forward since starter motors were fitted to cars which were hand crank only! These starter motors just laugh at half flat batteries and spin your engine faster than a Lucas one could if it was connected to 24v ! I admit that they do not sound as regal as the old units, but as they will only be turning for 10 seconds, at tops, who will know? Probably the best value item you could fit to your cars. The only problem you will find is that you will notice that you are using the car more and putting the mileage up! Perhaps it's different in a nice dry climate, but from where I'm sitting in the UK, Don't hesitate to get one fitted ! | ||
| Peter Colwell Experienced User Username: peter_colwell Post Number: 41 Registered: 3-2005 |
The effect of the engine sometimes starting AFTER the button is released is a real one, although I suspect that many people would miss it. Most old engines have a heavy flywheel that will keep the engine turning even after the starter is released. But of course once the button is released the voltage to the ignition instantly goes much higher, Voila, a good spark and ignition. Probably personal taste, but I LOVE an engine that has a quiet starter, very dignified and fitting. So much so that there are modern cars that I would not touch because of the raucous sound like a cockatoo, upon starting. | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 676 Registered: 9-2004 |
Peter,I just love the party trick of some older Rolls Royces of starting the engine without any use or noise of the starter. Turn the ignition to "B" or "MB" and "C" position, set hand throttle half way up the quadrant. And Rich mixture. move the ignition lever from full advance to its full retard and in most cases the engine will start. The movement of the ign lever will result in a quick break of the low tension circuit and spark the plug in the cylinder which is on the firing stroke. Clever for its day. | ||
| Peter Colwell Experienced User Username: peter_colwell Post Number: 42 Registered: 3-2005 |
Yes, that issue, 'starting off the switch', was a topic at the last National Rally in Orange NSW. Its not only Rolls-Royce, many of the older English cars, Rover in particular, had very silent starters. Unfortunately the subtlety of it all is now lost, because the common cars of today from GM and Ford are not interested in such matters. A silent fuss-free start does impress bystanders, no doubt. | ||
| Bill Coburn Moderator Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 873 Registered: 4-2003 |
Peter the new Toyota Preus (sp) hybrid would be right up your alley. There is no starter per se! In the event of the batteries being very low, turning on the 'ignition' starts the engine which is suddenly and almost silently 'running'. Apparently the flywheel is the spinning bit of an electric motor. Field coils around it are switched to have the combination operate as either a motor or a generator. My son has used one a number of times and it really is verging on magic. We are saving for the Lexus version the '450' I think. Back to the opium pipe! | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 677 Registered: 9-2004 |
For Bill,Going off original topic. Will Rolls royce/Bentley develop this type of spec in the future? They both now use the six speed ZF auto box,this has a torque converter lockup clutch that closes as soon as one sets off, this with the software control and hydralics make a most efficent set up. Some auto to take the 500bhp 1000NM of torque. But Lexus,wowwwwwwww The new LS 600h is the highest expression of current automobile technology. Its 5.0-litre V8 uses Lexus's D-4S technology, with two fuel injectors per cylinder and VVTi-E intelligent valve timing on the intake to boost performance and reduce emissions, noise and vibration. These characteristics are further refined by Lexus's hybrid system. This combination, together with a unique, electrically-controlled continuously variable transmission, delivers performance typical of a normally-aspirated V12. At the same time, combined fuel consumption is 29.7mpg and carbon dioxide emissions are 220g/km, figures which compare well with the levels achieved by the cleanest diesels in the segment. The dual-stage, CVT gives the LS 600h smooth, linear power delivery and seamless acceleration. It is matched to the all-wheel drivetrain with a central mechanical Torsen limited slip differential to give excellent handling stability in high performance driving. | ||
| bob uk Unregistered guest Posted From: brig-cache-4.server.ntli.net |
To hold spacer in place a hot glue gun works. Allow the gun a good 10 mins to heat up because the metal will suck the heat out of the glue fast. I have also used contact adhesives. Superglue never seems to work for me probaly because of finger grease. When I am designing stuff I tend to have any spacers ( providing they are not adjustment shims) tack welded to the bracket or whatever. Being an ex spanner whirler I always think of how it is going to be worked on. Some boats are becomming hybrid.( deisel electric ships have been around for quite some time, but smaller craft have been up till now more traditional) I heard of a boat using a type 47 deisel electric railway locomotive mechanical bits to drive a large electric motor to power the prop. Reports are that the boat "sails" well. Unfortunately this boat does not have the ability to run off batteries due to the high voltage used to drive the mian motor. 660 VDC I think. However with a set of submarine batteries and step up transformers/oscillators it maybe possible. Which will be excellent in calm waters and in harbour areas. One thing that does put me off hyrid cars is that the makers seem to think that the shape of the car needs to look space age. Lexus use standard car shapes which I like.-- one step at a time and learn to walk before you run is best. (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Bill Coburn Moderator Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 874 Registered: 4-2003 |
Well all. I have been slightly distracted lately with other tasks but reading Patrick's reply to my innocent report was a bit like taking the parish priest into the local whore house. Patrick we have an LX470 a four wheel drive all singing and dancing chariot that goes up and down can induce corns on your bum or wafts you to sleep with suspension settings available at your finger tips. The upholstery is superb the aircon without peer, it goes like excreta off a hot shovel and has a stability control setup that is literally awesome. The last requires amplification! Tearing down a local hill towards some traffic lights that were red, the car being driven by a mate and both talking our heads off, we noticed that a small car sitting at the lights which had now turned to green, had not moved off. We were in the same 'lane'. At some nanosecond in time we both realised we were going to wear this little whateveritwas as a mascot so my mate was obliged to literally wrench the wheel around to avoid it then wrench it back to avoid finishing up in the opposing lanes. In the middle of all this there was a loud squark from behind the dashboard which just topped off the drama and fright we had just experienced. The other memory was being inexplicably partially throttled by our seat belts. Back home and demolishing a newly opened Glen Livett, we looked up the book that came with the car. Seems my mate's automotive gymnastics had put the car beyond the designed parameters of the 'stability control'. Apparently in the excitement I also missed a large light coming on on the control panel! Next time I will be more attentive. As to the seat belt garrotting apparently this is a gadget that winds up the things when events considered by the 'stability control unit' to be over the top that winds the belts up to rope the passengers to the seats while the ensuing events take place. I imagine that if the front bumper had touched the whateveritwas standing at the lights all the air bags would have 'deployed' as the book says! Patrick it is all too much. I can 'fix' most things around this place - even the ride on mower but the nearest I have got to working on the Lexus is to open the bonnet which I quickly shut again. It is a beautiful car to drive and ride in. We do nothing to it other than its obligatory services by the agent, it looks like the stuff on the shovel but is totally reliable transport. It is boring. Contrast this with my Spur which had been abandoned for some days on the concourse at the side of our house in the pouring rain. Starting was hard, it made some very rude noises did the odd leap while driving down the hill and completely bloody died halfway across the traffic lit intersection at the bottom of the hill. Fortunately there was enough momentum to mount the opposing curb and there I sat like the traditional stale bottle while hoons sped past screaming 'GET A FORD' wondering what the Hell was wrong with it. I called the NRMA. Ten minutes and not one but two vans turned up intrigued no doubt with the task and discovered that the centre electrode in the distributor had managed to bore a hole through the rotor and was shorting the output of the hardworking coil straight down the drive spindle! The solution having got the rotten rotor off which was an Herculian task in itself was to put a good dob of nail polish on the inside of the rotor where the shaft fits and seal up the whole which was microscopic! Errr the nail polish was the NRMA's not mine! It was great fun, the NRMA guys were a treat to talk to (they try to avoid fat old fools with nothing do but break down in their rolls-Royces), I learnt something and I can bore hoards of captive audiences for weeks with my trauma! But would this happen with a Lexus - no way. I don't think they even have a distributor! I am told that if you just should break down (none of this failing to..... etc) they arrive, erect a tent over the vehicle and set you up with wine and canapes a deck chair and table nearby with an excellent couple of tomes of short stories while they correct the mechanical problem. All very nice but give me failing fuel pump on the side of a busy road with gravel lacerating your back and petrol dropping in your eyes any day. That is why we love our cars - they have panache! |
