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Mark Tennison
Yet to post message
Username: fixstuff

Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2020
Posted on Sunday, 06 December, 2020 - 07:37:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

So trying to get engine started after a bit of a lay-up.......so here's what I have found so far:

I wanted to to flush fuel lines through & empty old fuel, so disconnected at the Solex carb and run extended fuel lines in to a jerry can and tried connecting 12v directly to the PIERBURG fuel pump, the pump sounded like it was running but no fuel (30ltrs in tank) coming through at carb end !

So in order to achieve something I drained the tank of old fuel with a syphon, fuel looked clear/clean will probably get used in the lawn mower.

I was about to remove the pump to check function and thought I'd check the flow line back to the tank and check this was clear/unobstructed so first tried to blow air back to the fuel tank no go it was blocked, tried vacuum the same !

Difficult to tell from workshop manuals however, I don't think the section of fuel flow pipe from the tank to the fuel pump has anything that could completely block it e.g. Check valve, non return valve, isolating valve......,or has it ???

Any thoughts much appreciated
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 3120
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Sunday, 06 December, 2020 - 14:28:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

My first suggestion would be checking that the gravity flow to the pump is there, then check that the pump is actually pumping directly from the pump.

To my knowledge, there's nothing that should occlude the gravity flow from the fuel tank to the pump. I actually put a cut-off valve in on LRK37110 between the tank and pump when I first acquired the car so that I could easily cut off the fuel supply to the pump should the need arise.

Brian
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Mark Tennison
New User
Username: fixstuff

Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-2020
Posted on Sunday, 06 December, 2020 - 17:54:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Brian,

Many thanks for your response, the hose between the tank(between back sear and luggage space) and pump is disconnected and as air pressure via blowing or using vacuum would indicate its completely blocked. I'm going to double check the pipe routings and check remaining hose to tank but I think I'll end up taking the fuel sender out in order to get a look inside the tank. Any other thoughts much appreciated.
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Trevor Pickering
Experienced User
Username: commander1

Post Number: 176
Registered: 06-2012
Posted on Sunday, 06 December, 2020 - 19:50:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

How about checking the fuel filter?
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Mark Tennison
New User
Username: fixstuff

Post Number: 3
Registered: 11-2020
Posted on Monday, 07 December, 2020 - 05:14:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Removed pump and tested off car seems to work perfectly.

I cut in to the flow rubber hose nearest the fuel tank and guess what fuel streamed out! so I can only conclude that this hose must have a blockage between pump and tank, I'll remove this section tomorrow and find out what's going on.
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Mark Tennison
New User
Username: fixstuff

Post Number: 4
Registered: 11-2020
Posted on Tuesday, 08 December, 2020 - 02:25:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Reason for fuel not passing through fuel lines:

Each section of rubber hose in the fuel line has internally turned to black goo ! I guess this is a product of the fuel/Ethanol sitting in the fuel lines for a while. I will clearly need to check the rest of the the rubber sections, I have ordered from AFS replacement Bio Fuel hose supposed to be impervious to Ethanol etc.......
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 3846
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Tuesday, 08 December, 2020 - 05:58:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Mark,

I would not use ethanol containing fuel in a pre-2000 RR/B vehicle as the elastomers used in the RR/B fuel system were not compatible with this type of fuel.

Burlen supply ethanol conversion kits for non-ethanol compatible carburettors and fuel pumps.

Also, you should consider using a fuel stabiliser if your car is a "garage queen" and doesn't enjoy frequent use as modern fuel formulations appear to "break down" more readily if left stagnant for extended periods.
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 2399
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Wednesday, 09 December, 2020 - 03:01:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Pleased that I converted to run on LPG many years ago.
However use the best petrol Shell V-Power with 2-stroke mix on start up once a month for a little lub for the valves etc.
Used the car today with the recovery trailer still runs better with use!
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 3123
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Wednesday, 09 December, 2020 - 03:22:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

David Gore wrote, in part: I would not use ethanol containing fuel in a pre-2000 RR/B vehicle . . .

The problem with this suggestion being that a very great many do not have any choice.

There are lots of areas in the USA where no local petrol stations carry ethanol-free. I know of a couple in my region, and I know of long stretches I've driven where it wasn't an option.

In the USA, E10 has been the de facto petrol since the late 1970s or early 1980s. I would presume that any car that is currently running here and has been in use (rather than a barn find) has long ago had anything that wouldn't tolerate ethanol replaced.

And heaven knows that hoses (not just fuel hoses) turning to "black goo" or shedding their interior skins with extreme age is common.

It's also interesting to see where LPG conversions are common, which seems to be where petrol prices are much steeper than they are in the USA. I've often wondered how many filling stations are conveniently available for LPG. LPG is frequently mentioned but I have yet to see a car "in the flesh" so converted.

Brian
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 3847
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Wednesday, 09 December, 2020 - 06:11:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Brian,

LPG was heavily promoted here as an alternative to E10 ethanol fuel and it was originally extensively used in the taxi/hire car industry as it was lower taxed than petrol/gasoline. LPG outlets facilities were installed at larger service stations were sales volumes were high enough to cover the costs involved.

LPG has now met its nemesis in the battery hybrid vehicle and is no longer promoted as an alternative less-polluting and lower cost fuel to petrol/gasoline. E10 [94 octane] is still promoted heavily as an environmentally friendly fuel [an oxymoron in MHO] mainly for low price mass market vehicles.

A typical service station has 4 choices of fuel; E10. 95 and 98 octane unleaded and diesel. I do not use E10 for my 2 stroke garden power tools only 95 unleaded and I add 2 stroke oil for the I.C. engine items. I have a Dewalt Li-ion electric mulching lawn mower which is the best mower I have ever used. All our current vehicles are diesel powered and the our next new car purchases will be electric vehicles powered off-grid by our about-to-be-installed solar power system.

95 and 98 octane fuel is specified for many Asian and European vehicles especially their high performance and more expensive models which are very popular here.
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Trevor Hodgekinson
Frequent User
Username: wm20

Post Number: 208
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Tuesday, 15 December, 2020 - 16:20:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The LPG bit was a carrot for the idiot Green wing of the government of the time and to try & pull some of the right of center green party supporters over to the government.
It was all show and no substance as the major source of LPG in NSW was the Shell refinary at Rose Hill which had alrady started it's decommissioning shut down the day the subsidy was announced.
Thus it was never going to work in NSW as when the cost of shipping LPG from interstate is added onto the cost of retailing + the conversion subsidy "temproary tax" it was not financially viable to drive an LPG vehicle.
I know, we had a fleet of 5 vans .
You might note that the "temporary 20 / liter tax that was supposed to be removed in 2010 is still in place.
Add to that the insurance robbers decided that a bulk LPG tank is a terrorist target so upped the site insurance for sites that have an LPG tank .
All 3 servos in my area that sell LP are scheduled to have the taks removed on the next upgrade .
Same story for the desalination plant at Kurnell that was to run on electricity generated by burning the waste refinery gas from the Caltex plant that was also in the process of shutting down the day the first sod on the desalination plant was turned.
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 3853
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Tuesday, 15 December, 2020 - 16:40:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Trevor,

How true, two of my University class mates and my younger son worked at the Caltex Kurnell refinery until it shut down,

My son was selected in a group of Kurnell employees offered a relocation to the Lytton refinery in Brisbane instead of being made redundant.

The Lytton refinery is a major supplier of civil and military aviation fuel which should ensure its continuation however one never knows what our political masters will do in the future at the behest of their financial supporters.

Of course you would know the introduction of E10 was effectively the result of representations from financial contributors with vested interests. The claimed pollution benefits from E10 were an absolute "con job" in my opinion.
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Trevor Hodgekinson
Frequent User
Username: wm20

Post Number: 209
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Wednesday, 16 December, 2020 - 07:36:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Yes e10 is a con job. always has been.
Just the volume of unburned fuel that gets tossed out because it has gone off would outweigh any pollution benefit when you consider the massive pollution of unburned fuel evaporating .
Ever seen a stale fuel collection point ?
Then there is all of the embedded pollution in the ethanol degraded parts that I replace every year.
The on top of that we allow any volatile liquid to be blended into "fuel" so the exhausts on modern Australian cars would be far more polluting than they were back in the leaded fuel days and that is excluding the extra volume of unleaded fuel requirred .

However it does have a big effect on the balance of trade numbers because it drops the volume of fuel being imported .
It also stabilizes the fuel price just a little.
The e85 does deliver substantial pollution benefits but it seems to have died a natural death as only specially ordered fleet vehicles can run it.
The fact that only one plane makes fuel grade ethanol and a certain ex-prime ministers family have a substantial financial interest in the ethanol plant helped the decision just a little.
I would also imagine the cane farmers supplying to the ethanol plant might just be loyal Country Party members and of course it came in at a time when world sugar market had collapsed.
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 3854
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Wednesday, 16 December, 2020 - 08:22:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Trevor,

My sentiments exactly - we have the best politicians money can buy.
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ross kowalski
Prolific User
Username: cdfpw

Post Number: 1528
Registered: 11-2015
Posted on Wednesday, 16 December, 2020 - 11:30:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

e85 is good because you can run crazy high compression ratios and it takes a ton of heat out of your intake charge.

As a road fuel?.. takes a ton of energy to make it, is often made from corn which is the least effecient crops on the planet, is corrosive, is hydrophilic, and is less energy dense than petrol.
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Carl Jensen
Experienced User
Username: carl_jensen

Post Number: 60
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Thursday, 17 December, 2020 - 00:55:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I had a long-term similar problem with my 1975 Shadow LRD20648. After years of intermittent fuel starvation I finally removed the fuel sending unit in the trunk and looked down to the fuel outlet on the bottom of the gas tank. It had a bunch of crud partially blocking it which turned out to be extra bits of gasket sealant that had fallen down after a previous owner replaced the fuel sending unit.
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Trevor Hodgekinson
Frequent User
Username: wm20

Post Number: 210
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Thursday, 17 December, 2020 - 20:41:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

From memory e85 is what they run in Brazil and also what was run in South Africa during the bull dust embargo days .
I accidentially put some in the L300 and had a bugger of a time going anywhere
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 2409
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Friday, 18 December, 2020 - 06:30:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Worth a visit to Cuba for the grand old USA cars of the fifties sixties some still running on the fuel made from the sugar cane.

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