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Mike Thompson
Prolific User
Username: vroomrr

Post Number: 1156
Registered: 04-2019
Posted on Sunday, 29 December, 2019 - 10:31:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

What would make a Slave cylinder not respond to the Master cylinder?

I'm out of ideas why the slave cylinder does not move at all, even though I bought a new master cylinder and pumped a ton of fluid through it.
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Graham Phillips
Experienced User
Username: playtime

Post Number: 193
Registered: 03-2019
Posted on Sunday, 29 December, 2019 - 10:56:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

G'day everyone,.....


1) The slave cylinder is seized.

2) The piston in the slave cylinder is jammed at a slight angle because usually incorrect sized for cylinder.

3) Blockage in hydraulic line to that cylinder.

4) Leak in line to that cylinder.

5) Air pocket trapped in that line or cylinder.

6) Packing cap not removed before installation of slave cylinder. (ask me how I know this,...)


Just a few idea's off the top of my head,....


Graham.
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Mark Aldridge
Frequent User
Username: mark_aldridge

Post Number: 653
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Sunday, 29 December, 2019 - 11:38:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

My guess air in system. From experience with MG Midgets and Series Landrovers, the clutches are the devil to bleed! Bleed jar needs to be held 18 inches above master cylinder or fluid supply, whichever is higher.
Mark
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Mike Thompson
Prolific User
Username: vroomrr

Post Number: 1158
Registered: 04-2019
Posted on Sunday, 29 December, 2019 - 16:51:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I have pumped at the minimum 12 fluid ounces through both the Landrover master cylinder and the slave cylinder. Below is the setup. The reservoir is about touching the hood. It is above the slave cylinder in the back. That elimiates 3, 4 and 6 above, and probably 5 leaving only 1 and 2. When Ipump the brakes and open the bleed valve (T-connector below) it is squirting out very well. The hose from the slave cylinder bleeder is below fluid so cannot suck air into the system. All the bubbles stopped. Even if there is air in the system there should be some movement of the slave cylinder, or the master cylinder is not strong enough to activate the slave cylinder, or the slave cylinder (although new) is defective. How can I know for sure the air is out?

mc

mc2
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Mark Aldridge
Frequent User
Username: mark_aldridge

Post Number: 654
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Sunday, 29 December, 2019 - 20:08:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Mike, my guess is air in the slave still, the result you describe is identical to a midget clutch. Remove slave, pull piston out to end of stroke,filling with fluid in the process, open bleed nipple,compress cylinder , close nipple and try again. Use long bleed tube from slave, with outlet and jar well above the fluid reservoir and bleed conventional way. They can be a real pain.
Mark
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Hubert Kelly
Frequent User
Username: h_kelly

Post Number: 379
Registered: 03-2012
Posted on Monday, 30 December, 2019 - 00:20:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Mike have you put a second bleed screw at the T piece, to evaluate the master cylinder function?.
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Mike Thompson
Prolific User
Username: vroomrr

Post Number: 1159
Registered: 04-2019
Posted on Monday, 30 December, 2019 - 01:34:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hubert, yes it does have a bleeder screw on the T-connection, because I have no need for the valve above the MC as on the original where the bleeder used to be.

Mark, it sure won't hurt to try to bleed the slave again. The stroke has worried me because the instructions say if you don't do it right it will not get fluid. And I'm hoping that is not the case, or I will have to rebuild something.

Closeup of the T-connection before installation.

t

Also the Landrover nor the RR master cylinder has ever gotten a firm pedal even after 100s of pumps, with the system closed or open to bleed all bubbles out of the system. It is all new line and has no leaks, or clogs. Not sure where air can be hiding.
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Hubert Kelly
Frequent User
Username: h_kelly

Post Number: 380
Registered: 03-2012
Posted on Monday, 30 December, 2019 - 02:53:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Your missing my point Mike, put two bleed screws on the T Piece, bleed one and assess the travel of brake pedal. The reason I suggest same, is you have removed both distribution valves?.
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 2243
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Monday, 30 December, 2019 - 05:07:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

"What would make a Slave cylinder not respond to the Master cylinder?"

Trying to do a "on the cheap" lash up job of converting a triple safety braking system into a DANGEROUS type single braking system.
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Mike Thompson
Prolific User
Username: vroomrr

Post Number: 1162
Registered: 04-2019
Posted on Monday, 30 December, 2019 - 16:08:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Patrick how many times are you going to beat this dead horse. This is not a topic on brakes (and your opinion of them) it is on causes of slave cylinders not working. Your comment is OFF TOPIC and SHOULD BE REMOVED!

And if you are talking about DANGEROUS, I find it hard to take that opinion from someone that tows a ton around on 30 year old tires. I guess flipping over and killing yourself and others does not count as DANGEROUS.
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 2244
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Monday, 30 December, 2019 - 19:23:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Far from being off topic.

To have complete Shadow original braking system be it needing a complete overhaul and to butcher it by your confirmed method is completely on topic under Silver Shadow.
Also the crappy thread heading "What would make a Slave cylinder not " to which I replied.

IMO this and other postings on this complete lash up type BODGE should have been removed and dealt with in the first beginning, never to be see again on a Rolls Royce Shadow Forum.
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Mike Thompson
Prolific User
Username: vroomrr

Post Number: 1163
Registered: 04-2019
Posted on Tuesday, 31 December, 2019 - 00:24:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Yes yes everyone in your dream world is born a millionair and to fix a $2500 Rolls Royce Silver Shadow that has been sitting in a field 15 years and lost all brake fluid and every part must be replaced or rebuilt, all I should have done is spend some $5000 + dollars so your terror management issues are a appeased. Nice Patrick.

And where in this thread are we talking about brakes? I purposely left that out just so I did not have to hear you whining about it, like a little girl. It is my car and it is between me and the Texas legislator. I'm tired of hearing your hysteria. Grow a pair and shut up. You don't like it contact the Texas legislators.

You just can't make it through a day without belittling others to boost your self worth. You don't drive a Rolls Royce for the 100 years of motoring excellence, you drive a Rolls Royce to thumb your nose at others, while abusing your Rolls as a farm truck.

I note you had nothing to say about your DANGEROUS behavior.

"And if you are talking about DANGEROUS, I find it hard to take that opinion from someone that tows a ton around on 30 year old tires. I guess flipping over and killing yourself and others does not count as DANGEROUS."

Your account should be closed. Deal with it. Wimp.
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 2245
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Tuesday, 31 December, 2019 - 02:53:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

"And where in this thread are we talking about brakes?"

Are you in a total pickle, how about this total lash up you say:

"When Ipump the brakes and open the bleed valve (T-connector below) it is squirting out very well. The hose from the slave cylinder bleeder is below fluid so cannot suck air into the system."
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Hubert Kelly
Frequent User
Username: h_kelly

Post Number: 381
Registered: 03-2012
Posted on Tuesday, 31 December, 2019 - 02:58:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Mike, can you confirm / deny you have a good brake pedal that holds position as this is crucial bit of information, thanks
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Jim Walters
Frequent User
Username: jim_walters

Post Number: 283
Registered: 01-2014
Posted on Tuesday, 31 December, 2019 - 05:40:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I have to agree with Patrick in regards to the modifications you've made to the braking system on your Shadow. BUT, a clutch slave is meant to have a spring source like a clutch pressure plate to push the piston back into the cylinder. The slave cylinder has an internal spring that pushes the piston out against the pressure plate linkage so there is no lost motion when the clutch pedal is pressed. Your booster setup likely has nothing to push the cylinder back against the spring inside it that keeps the piston pushed out in contact with the usual pressure plate linkage. So the piston is already extended with nowhere to go. Also, your fluid flow ratio is all wrong using a 5/8ths master and a what, 7/8ths or 1 inch slave? For instance moving the master 3/4 of an inch will only move the slave cylinder piston a fraction of that, not nearly enough to operate the booster setup you have installed. I suspect the amount of travel required on the truck brake pedal that used to be connected to the booster you have fitted far exceeds what your master and slave configuration is able to do.

SRH8505 SRC18015 SRE22493 NAC-05370
www.bristolmotors.com
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Christian S. Hansen
Prolific User
Username: enquiring_mind

Post Number: 1058
Registered: 04-2015
Posted on Tuesday, 31 December, 2019 - 06:06:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Mike...
You are confusing prudence and legality. Even if there were no laws, prudence would still be a reliable determinant when analyzing actions. Further, the "inability to afford" is not a defense if someone else is damaged by your actions.
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Omar M. Shams
Prolific User
Username: omar

Post Number: 1916
Registered: 04-2009
Posted on Tuesday, 31 December, 2019 - 06:11:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Dear All,
We are a group of Rolls-Royce and Bentley Enthusiasts who seek to help each other maintain our cars in good order so that we and the next generation can enjoy these amazing cars. We are not bad people. We need to put aside our ill-feeling and accept that there are two sides to this matter. Let us respect the opinions of everyone and in the spirit of goodwill and that fat man wearing a red suit - let us toast everyone on this forum to have a safe and happy new year.
My request to you all is that we close this thread now following that toast and let the world be a safe and happy place for us all.

Thanks for being my virtual family over the years.

Omar
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Mark Aldridge
Frequent User
Username: mark_aldridge

Post Number: 655
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Tuesday, 31 December, 2019 - 07:12:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Very appropriate Omar, Our good wishes to you and your family for the New Year.
Mark
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 2246
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Tuesday, 31 December, 2019 - 07:47:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thanks Omar and all, have a great new year.
Pleased to see Christian H is back in top gear!
Now is the time IMO for the Admin and David our Moderator to do their bit as soon as possible.
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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 2173
Registered: 05-2012
Posted on Tuesday, 31 December, 2019 - 08:16:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Nicely said Omar.

Good to see you back Christian

Best wishes to all for 2020
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Mike Thompson
Prolific User
Username: vroomrr

Post Number: 1164
Registered: 04-2019
Posted on Tuesday, 31 December, 2019 - 11:02:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I have a 1957 Chevy, a 1965 Thunderbird, and a 1965 Chrysler Imperial, all with a single system master cylinder. I feel as safe with them as any other car were I to drive them. All including the Rolls Royce have emergency brakes and I am fine with that. End of thread.

Thanks Jim
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Robert J. Sprauer
Frequent User
Username: wraithman

Post Number: 573
Registered: 11-2017
Posted on Tuesday, 31 December, 2019 - 13:35:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Let's be clear..the "emergency brake" on a Rolls is not for emergencies and never will be able to stop a car of this size and weight. Have you seen the pads? They are the size of checkers. You're kidding yourself here.
They are designed strictly for parking.
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RR Forums Administrator
Board Administrator
Username: admin

Post Number: 113
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Tuesday, 31 December, 2019 - 13:51:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thread closed.