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Richard Greene
Experienced User
Username: benzjag

Post Number: 145
Registered: 12-2012
Posted on Sunday, 14 July, 2019 - 05:08:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Would anyone know if there is a parallel AC condenser available that would fit a Silver Shadow II? I need to replace mine on my 79 Shadow which has been converted to R134. I assume it would cool much better with the parallel condenser.

Thanks!

Richard
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Omar M. Shams
Prolific User
Username: omar

Post Number: 1842
Registered: 04-2009
Posted on Sunday, 14 July, 2019 - 05:35:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The front of the car is big enough for you to do all sorts. I once fitted two condensers of a different make and doubled the cooling area but that made little or no difference to my 78 Wraith II. My next experiment was to use an aluminium condenser. But perhaps the limiting component is not the condenser - it may be something else. I have already changed the evaporator to an aluminium one and put in a modern expansion valve too. I have a Sanden compressor and my cooling is adequate. It now needs the aluminium condenser to finish off my experiment.
Good luck
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Richard Greene
Experienced User
Username: benzjag

Post Number: 146
Registered: 12-2012
Posted on Sunday, 14 July, 2019 - 06:38:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Omar,

VERY interesting! Mine is ice cold, but I put some R134 in with UV dye, and it's coming out of my condenser on the lower left. Do you still have one you tried and didn't use (of the 2)? If so, I might be intetested. I really want the simplest replacement because of the fittings!

Thanks.

Richard
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Omar M. Shams
Prolific User
Username: omar

Post Number: 1846
Registered: 04-2009
Posted on Monday, 15 July, 2019 - 06:01:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Dear Richard,
I cant remember - but i think I still have the modified twin condenser arrangement on the Wraith II. Next time I go to see the car I will take a photo. Either way, I either have the original RR condenser in the shed or the twin modified arrangement.
Trouble is..... I live in Dubai and it is a long way away from you. How can we make this happen?
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Richard Greene
Experienced User
Username: benzjag

Post Number: 147
Registered: 12-2012
Posted on Tuesday, 16 July, 2019 - 04:14:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Omar,

I SINCERELY appreciate it, but I think the shipping to the US would be astronomical! If you think differently, please let me know! I forgot the forum is worldwide which is awesome!

Richard
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Omar M. Shams
Prolific User
Username: omar

Post Number: 1849
Registered: 04-2009
Posted on Tuesday, 16 July, 2019 - 04:45:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Dear Richard,
You are very welcome. Parts in the USA are much cheaper than here where I am.
I took the grill off for you and captured a few images of the double condenser arrangement. There are two condensers directly in front of the radiator in the images below.



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Omar M. Shams
Prolific User
Username: omar

Post Number: 1850
Registered: 04-2009
Posted on Tuesday, 16 July, 2019 - 04:46:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

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Omar M. Shams
Prolific User
Username: omar

Post Number: 1851
Registered: 04-2009
Posted on Tuesday, 16 July, 2019 - 04:49:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

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Omar M. Shams
Prolific User
Username: omar

Post Number: 1852
Registered: 04-2009
Posted on Tuesday, 16 July, 2019 - 04:51:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

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Richard Greene
Experienced User
Username: benzjag

Post Number: 148
Registered: 12-2012
Posted on Wednesday, 17 July, 2019 - 01:04:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Omar,

Interesting you saw NO difference in the cooling! Mine is cold now with the "seeping" condenser;therefore, I think I will go with the OEM! The older I get, the more simple I want things! Again, I really appreciate your help and removing the grill to show your condensers! You help make our forum awesome!

Richard
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Randy Roberson
Frequent User
Username: wascator

Post Number: 828
Registered: 05-2009
Posted on Wednesday, 17 July, 2019 - 02:02:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I installed a parallel-flow condenser on my 1977 Silver Wraith II. It was pretty straightforward; I did not see the improvement in performance that would have made it worthwhile, in my opinion. There could/should be an improvement in marginal conditions: slow driving, high ambient, etc.
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Richard Greene
Experienced User
Username: benzjag

Post Number: 149
Registered: 12-2012
Posted on Wednesday, 17 July, 2019 - 02:53:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Randy,

Could explain further what was involved to install such as modifications? Do you have the model # and where you ordered it? Cost of unit, etc. I'm trying to make decisions in which direction would be best.

Thanks.

Richard
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 2885
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Wednesday, 17 July, 2019 - 04:14:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Richard,

One of the easiest tasks I've ever had to do on these cars is removing the Grille.

Brian
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Omar M. Shams
Prolific User
Username: omar

Post Number: 1853
Registered: 04-2009
Posted on Wednesday, 17 July, 2019 - 04:54:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

My recommendation is to stick with the original factory set up. It works well.
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Robert J. Sprauer
Frequent User
Username: wraithman

Post Number: 465
Registered: 11-2017
Posted on Wednesday, 17 July, 2019 - 11:07:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The original RR design is well sorted out for it's purpose. I'm in the process of changing my system to R134a. The project includes a new drier, vacuum the system, PAG oil and refill with refrigerant at 80% of the original 3.25 lbs. Condenser , evaporator and lines will be line flushed and blown out. R134a has a greater capacity to draw heat. The original system held 30Hg with no issues.
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Mike Thompson
Frequent User
Username: vroomrr

Post Number: 734
Registered: 04-2019
Posted on Wednesday, 17 July, 2019 - 13:13:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

David (if you're there) didn't you say that in Australia they use what amounts to propane in the Air Cons? I have a pot load of propane.
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 3381
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Wednesday, 17 July, 2019 - 16:14:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Mike,

Not propane - it is a mixture of more efficient hydrocarbon gases designated R600a and R290:

https://hychill.com.au/products/minus-30

You could use propane however I would be very wary of doing so if therever was an accident and fire causing injury or death and the ambulance-chasing lawyers argued contributory negligence by the use of propane refrigerant.

The charge mass of Hychill 30 is minimal and accordingly is unlikely to cause a fire/explosion risk in an automotive application.
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Mike Thompson
Frequent User
Username: vroomrr

Post Number: 739
Registered: 04-2019
Posted on Thursday, 18 July, 2019 - 03:52:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Is there something other than R12 or flammable gas that can be used in an R12 system? (Simi legal to use in the USA.)

Oh and Hychill is illegal in the USA, one should note.
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Mark Luft
Frequent User
Username: bentleyman1993

Post Number: 278
Registered: 10-2016
Posted on Thursday, 18 July, 2019 - 04:19:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I still use R12. I can find it on Ebay.
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Mike Thompson
Frequent User
Username: vroomrr

Post Number: 740
Registered: 04-2019
Posted on Thursday, 18 July, 2019 - 05:35:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Not sure how they legally sell R12 on ebay.

Edit: Hagerty has a post on ebay and shipping. (copy and paste the link)
https://www.hagerty.com/articles-videos/articles/2018/05/07/air-conditioning-dos-and-donts-refrigerants-and-the-law

The United States Postal Service has a lot of regulations concerning what it will ship and what it will not. You can mail Freon through the USPS but only by ground and it involves a lot of paperwork, certifications and labeling regulations. You might be liable if they did it wrong.

Here is an old thread on Hycill etc.

http://au.rrforums.net/forum/messages/30/20419.html
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Randy Roberson
Frequent User
Username: wascator

Post Number: 830
Registered: 05-2009
Posted on Thursday, 18 July, 2019 - 05:44:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Richard, install is a matter of: find a generic, parallel-flow condenser that will fit in the space available (all over the internet); fab up some simple brackets to hold it in place; connect the refrigerant lines using generic tubing with the fittings already attached, or use hoses, whatever you need to get there from here. I did not even drill a single hole; used the ones which supported the old Factory condenser.
I use R134-A. I do not recommend any sort of propane or other flammable refrigerant. It will cool, but there is a lot of risk in burning your self, your passengers, and the Car up. You can still get R-12, but I doubt it's worth the trouble. If the compressor has the correct oil for R134-A, you should not have any trouble.
My company car is the cheapest Ford Fusion made, and it has a powerhouse AC which performs beautifully. I wish my Wraith II had it's AC system!
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Richard Greene
Experienced User
Username: benzjag

Post Number: 150
Registered: 12-2012
Posted on Thursday, 18 July, 2019 - 12:35:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thanks Randy. I have started to look and as you said,there are many to choose from!

Richard
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Al Abbasi
New User
Username: alabbasi

Post Number: 7
Registered: 02-2018
Posted on Friday, 19 July, 2019 - 08:48:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

R12 is readily available in the US but given the size of the condenser in an RR, R134a will work fine. The A/C in Corniche has been converted and it will turn your fingers blue. I live in Texas.
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Robert J. Sprauer
Frequent User
Username: wraithman

Post Number: 466
Registered: 11-2017
Posted on Friday, 19 July, 2019 - 21:29:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Four Seasons A/C They have a catalog that would make your head spin, frankly you do not need a parallel condenser.
I am in the process of doing a total re-build of the system and moving to R-134a. All lines, condenser and evaporator are flushed, all hard lines polished to a mirror shine, POA valve re-calibrated for 134a, compressor drained and oil replaced with PAG and new O rings.. Once the sytem is put together it will be put on vacuum to test and to eliminate any moisture.
//www.smpbuyersguide.com/4seasons/2017-Illustrated-Guide/C/
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Mike Thompson
Frequent User
Username: vroomrr

Post Number: 753
Registered: 04-2019
Posted on Saturday, 20 July, 2019 - 07:48:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

If someone has or will convert their system from R12 to R134a they should make a thread on how they did it. Step by step, and what products they used and the parts and part numbers, so the next person to do this has it already planed out.
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Robert J. Sprauer
Frequent User
Username: wraithman

Post Number: 467
Registered: 11-2017
Posted on Saturday, 20 July, 2019 - 09:24:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The only part that is needed is a new drier. (Four Seasons #33323) Once the system is taken apart the individual components like the evaporator, condenser and lines are solvent flushed and blown with compressed air. The POA valve is re-adjusted for R134a (lower) and the compressor must be removed and drained of the old oil. The new oil should be 10 oz of PAG 150. The compressor is usually a Delco/Harrison A6 or Delco 242. The very late cars had a English/French label on the top and this indicates metric mounting hardware for the compressor. The clutch gap should be checked also. Stock re-charge of R12 would be 3.25 lbs and going to R134a would be 80-85% of that. The system must be evacuated before refrigerant for vacuum integrity and moisture removal.
Do not use synthetic refrigerant or one with stop leak. A manifold set is a must.
Most of the cost of the changeover is labor as indicated above if the job is to be done correctly the first time. I removed all lines and flushed them along with polishing. It was also a good time to replace every possible O ring. You can get a 270 piece O ring kit for $11-12 off Amazon.....and that's it.
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Martin Taylor
Experienced User
Username: martin_taylor

Post Number: 151
Registered: 07-2013
Posted on Wednesday, 14 August, 2019 - 18:38:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thanks Robert,
How does one adjust the POA valve? Is it part of the expansion valve?
Thanks
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michael vass
Frequent User
Username: mikebentleyturbo2

Post Number: 573
Registered: 07-2015
Posted on Thursday, 15 August, 2019 - 18:11:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

dear Omar
Looking at your setup I think the fan in front is next to useless ,it will just move air round and round maybe the later twin fan setup would be better although not shrouded very well.
Hope that helps
Mike
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Omar M. Shams
Prolific User
Username: omar

Post Number: 1865
Registered: 04-2009
Posted on Saturday, 17 August, 2019 - 15:50:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Dear Michael,
I totally agree with you. But this fan is original Rolls-Royce fitment. All Shadows/Wraiths destined for the Middle East had those fans. I didnt want to throw it way as it didnt really hurt having it there. Also in heavy traffic the marginal difference that it makes almost justifies its existence.
I agree that they are almost useless in terms of function but then again there are lots of items like that in the Rolls-Royce.
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Martin Taylor
Experienced User
Username: martin_taylor

Post Number: 159
Registered: 07-2013
Posted on Sunday, 01 September, 2019 - 19:01:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Iív just converted mine to 134A after rebuilding the suction throttle valve and replacing the O-rings at the compressor and fitting a new dryer, the system cools fine but the compressor is now noisy to the point where I can hear it when driving the car, I filled it with PAG oil. The system was previously running R12 with no noise at all, the only reason it was taken apart was due to the leaking suction throttle valve. Am I up for a new compressor?
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Robert J. Sprauer
Frequent User
Username: wraithman

Post Number: 525
Registered: 11-2017
Posted on Sunday, 01 September, 2019 - 21:35:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

10 oz is required for oil. The comp holds oil and has to be rotated to facilitate draining and re-filling.
It may be lo on oil if not totally filled.
I recently converted my SWII to R134a.
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Omar M. Shams
Prolific User
Username: omar

Post Number: 1878
Registered: 04-2009
Posted on Monday, 02 September, 2019 - 03:45:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Another thing to consider is the possibility that your car never had full system pressure because of the leak and therefore the compressor never had to work as hard as it has to now. Had it had to work as it does now - it would have made just as much noise - maybe. But then again maybe it is low on oil as Robert says and if that is the case - it is my experience that when the compressor makes noise there is no recovery.
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Robert J. Sprauer
Frequent User
Username: wraithman

Post Number: 526
Registered: 11-2017
Posted on Monday, 02 September, 2019 - 04:16:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Also, when re-charging with R134a vs R12. R134a expands more than R12 so use approx 80-85% of what you would use for the R12. It maybe possible you have overcharged and the compressor is not happy.
Also did you evacuate the system prior to re-charging? Any exposure to open air will bring in humidity and will freeze internally causing clogs which is one of the reasons for evacuation.
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Patrick Francis
Frequent User
Username: jackpot

Post Number: 286
Registered: 11-2016
Posted on Monday, 02 September, 2019 - 06:26:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi
On my 1974 Shadow, the aircon stopped working a while back, and I discovered that it was the compressor. So I decided to convert to 134A, and bought a new compressor and dryer from Flying spares.
The first repleacemnet compressor was very noisy, so I sent it back for another replacement which is much quieter.
I charged with 1.3Kg of R134A (80% of 1.59KG = 1.27Kg
I was looking to try and add an electric fan to help the viscous fan (which was renewed), but there is not enough space anywhere!
The system works very well, and the only time that it does not seem to be able to keep up is when I am stopped in traffic on a hot summers day. The idling engine does not seem to be able to pull enough air through the condenser.
For this reason, I am contemplating replacing the viscous fan setup with an electric fan, that would work at maximum capacity whenever it is switched on, and so cool the condenser at idle much better.
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Robert J. Sprauer
Frequent User
Username: wraithman

Post Number: 527
Registered: 11-2017
Posted on Monday, 02 September, 2019 - 07:42:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The electric fan in the front should come on, check the sensor. It helps the condenser do its job when the car is stopped. At hiway speed there is enough airflow to chill(condense) the hot gas in the condenser.
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Randy Roberson
Frequent User
Username: wascator

Post Number: 833
Registered: 05-2009
Posted on Monday, 02 September, 2019 - 10:51:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Martin, be sure a hose is not contacting a fender or other part which is serving as a sounding board, amplifying the normal sound. It does happen.
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Martin Taylor
Experienced User
Username: martin_taylor

Post Number: 161
Registered: 07-2013
Posted on Monday, 02 September, 2019 - 11:33:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thanks for the replies, I removed and drained the compressor, filled it with 10oz of oil, the manual says 1.59kg of R12 so I was looking to put in 1.2kg of 134A, it was a cold day and so far have only drawn in 1kg, it cools quite well but just makes a droaning noise.
The system held -30hg overnight before filling.
I will start looking for a replacement I think

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