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Mike Thompson
Frequent User
Username: vroomrr

Post Number: 667
Registered: 04-2019
Posted on Thursday, 20 June, 2019 - 10:19:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I have looked at lots of pictures to see if the Follower inside the push rod housing below the brake pump will come out without taking off the manifold. It turns out the follower will not come out. It is my thought that one can leave the push rod in place under tension of a spring and the follower will not then pose a danger of popping out of the installation window on the side of the push rod housing to end up inside the engine under the valley cover. I have devised a cap (in my mind) that will keep the push rod under tension and thus keep the follower and push rod in place without harm to the engine. What do you think?

push rod housing

Cap for the Brake Pump hole and Push Rod Tensioner.

Push rod tensioner
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gordon le feuvre
Grand Master
Username: triumph

Post Number: 302
Registered: 07-2012
Posted on Thursday, 20 June, 2019 - 18:19:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Mike,

Your making issue where there is none! Once brake pump removed, there is NO tension anywhere to make follower lift/jump up housing. The push rod can come out, but for what purpose. If push rod has broken as early cars used to, believe me it is so much easier just to take carbs and manifold off to gain access to chest. That way you can actually see what is going on/ inspect pump lobes on cam etc
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Mike Thompson
Frequent User
Username: vroomrr

Post Number: 668
Registered: 04-2019
Posted on Friday, 21 June, 2019 - 02:07:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I don't understand the function of the follower and how it is kept against the cam and why? I don't need the brake pumps on the car, I'm not using them.
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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Grand Master
Username: soviet

Post Number: 1489
Registered: 02-2013
Posted on Friday, 21 June, 2019 - 08:27:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Mike the function of the follower is to simply transfer movement from the elliptical camshaft node turning circularly to up and down movement.

Its held in place only by brake pump pressure.

I would remove it only because it may shatter without the brake pump in situ. That would be most rare but you really don't need parts in the engine that are not being used at high rpm.

I have an engine here in pieces so today I will try to work out why you cannot remove it. Perhaps its only stuck there by engine oil gum build up or perhaps its ridged so when the push rod snaps it is not flung up by the camshaft to do more damage.

I never liked those pushrods because they look thin and weak.
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Mike Thompson
Frequent User
Username: vroomrr

Post Number: 670
Registered: 04-2019
Posted on Friday, 21 June, 2019 - 09:29:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thanks Vlad, The push rods were redesigned thinner so they will brake not bend if there is too much pressure in the accumulator (you probably know that). The reason the follower will not come out through the push rod hole from above while still on the engine and still in the push rod housing, is because the follower is bigger than the push rod hole. I just want to put the push rod back where it was, put a spring on it like the pump has, and be done with it. Not take off the manifold, all the A/C stuff, my new carb linkage, drain the water, buy a new manifold gasket and have it shipped to me $$$, etc. etc. I cannot understand why I cannot just do with the cap I designed (above picture) the same as the brake pump did, it is doing the same thing as the brake pump did, putting tension on the push rod. As far as the engine goes and that push rod, it is just having a spring there to keep the rod and (I guess) the follower (somehow) pushed against the cam, nothing more. But people are saying the follower has to be pushed on the cam as well and I cannot understand how it is, I did not change anything.
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 2172
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Friday, 21 June, 2019 - 23:09:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

"Its held in place only by brake pump pressure"

Cripes, would not like to run a hydraulic pump on the cam lobe etc with no clearance.
The pump pressure would soon cause the hardening to fail.
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Mike Thompson
Frequent User
Username: vroomrr

Post Number: 674
Registered: 04-2019
Posted on Saturday, 22 June, 2019 - 03:03:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

There would be plenty of clearance, that is why there is a spring, to keep the push rod on the cam and move exactly the same as it did with the brake pump in place. (There is no brake pump, it is no longer on the car nor will it be put back onto the car. It serves no purpose on my car.)

"Its held in place only by brake pump pressure"

Yeah but how? The push rod just falls through the follower, there is no resistance when you put the push rod back into place. How is the follower kept on the cam and not bounce around?
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Mike Thompson
Frequent User
Username: vroomrr

Post Number: 676
Registered: 04-2019
Posted on Saturday, 22 June, 2019 - 03:41:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

In this picture I see nothing holding the follower to the cam but gravity. I do not see the brake pump having any influence on the follower.

push rod housing 2
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Mike Thompson
Frequent User
Username: vroomrr

Post Number: 677
Registered: 04-2019
Posted on Saturday, 22 June, 2019 - 06:55:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

OK with a lot of searches of the followers (with no help because none them showed the end that touches the cam) I have come to the conclusion that a follower is not an open cylinder, but is closed at the end that touches the cam. Now that may be obvious to language thinking people, but was not to me, a picture thinking person. From what I was told I saw an open cylinder and the push rod went through it. So I could not understand it's function. You have to understand you don't speak my language. I don't know how one speaks picture (maybe Hieroglyphs). Anyway, looking at the below picture gave the clue, if you look close it is a closed cylinder and the push rod does not go through it.

push rod housing 3

Here is another clue from Ronny's garage. What happened was the first push rod broke, so some Bubba decided to put in the old style solid push rod, not fix the problem, in hopes it wouldn't break this time (note the little end found in the follower, ah-ha there has to be an end on there, a closed cylinder). So of course it did not brake it bent and broke the follower. The warning light gave no indication because Bubba also unhooked the sensor wire (wish I knew where that is).

broken

Warning the link is a PDF file
https://ronnysgarage.com/Files/PDF/are-my-brake-pumps-working.pdf

In conclusion, the reason I could not understand what the function of the follower is because I am from the planet Zog and we think in pictures and communicate by telepathy and beam pictures at each other. No wonder my father said I was the milkman's son not his, its all starting to make sense now. Beam me up Scotty, I want to go home now.

I wrote Ronny and he sent this:

"Hello Michael,

... CYA

But, in my opinion the followers will most likely get pushed up to a point
that they will stick in the bore, out of the way.

Typically when replacing them, one has to force them out due to varnish
built up around the base that usually never reaches the bore.

The camshaft lobe doesn't have but about 3/8" or so lift and the follower is
about 1-1/4" long, so it must travel that far to be removed."
---------------------

Just for your info. Now back to wondering how I get back home (ET Phone Home).
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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 2114
Registered: 05-2012
Posted on Saturday, 22 June, 2019 - 09:22:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Here's a pic from a 74 Shadow. It's probably the same type as yours. The closed cam end of the follower can be seen. Notice the push-rod/follower housing is solid and does not have the cutout, as in the later assemblies.

p1
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Mike Thompson
Frequent User
Username: vroomrr

Post Number: 678
Registered: 04-2019
Posted on Saturday, 22 June, 2019 - 13:15:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Geoff,
Thanks for the confirmation of the flat follower cam end. In one of his videos Ronny of Ronny's Garage AKA RollsRoyceNut said the accumulators were put on each side of the engine in mid 1975, this also confirmed the evolution of my 1975 Rolls (as a tweener).

As usual my internet is not working I believe it is this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwhfyH46xxA
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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 2115
Registered: 05-2012
Posted on Saturday, 22 June, 2019 - 13:46:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Your's definitely looks to be a tweener. The video you pointed to indeed shows the parts for the "series 1".
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Mike Thompson
Frequent User
Username: vroomrr

Post Number: 684
Registered: 04-2019
Posted on Monday, 24 June, 2019 - 02:14:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I think the Ronny's Garage incident is a perfect example of the danger of taking such a foreign car as the Rolls Royce is to your local American repair shop. The brake systems on a Rolls Royce are so different than anything Americans are used to, they may do totally inappropriate highly dangerous things to try to fix it. As put in a stronger brake pump push rod and not fixing the problem that broke the push rod (and not knowing what the problem was). Which may have caused an explosion of the accumulator.

Not sure what is the remedy to this problem. If you buy a used Silver Shadow you also probably do not have enough money to take it to an approved repair shop. Short of doing what I am doing, Americanizing the car, most if not all American repair shops are not going to have a clue how to safely repair it. After I am finished with my Rolls (and bastardizing it in some people's minds) any American Bubba could repair it, thus making it a safer car in America (I know debatable). Now finding parts however may be a different matter (as I am finding out).

debate

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