| Author | Message | ||
     Janne Aittola Experienced User Username: jannea Post Number: 12 Registered: 7-2018 |
Having ignition problems with Powerspark Electronic Ignition Kit installed to my Silver Shadow 1968. At the moment I have new Valeo R92H spark plugs, but does someone recommend some other spark plug brand/type, especially I am interessed what heat index people are using? | ||
| Robert J. Sprauer Grand Master Username: wraithman Post Number: 414 Registered: 11-2017 |
NGK | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 2100 Registered: 5-2012 |
Janne There is a very good discussion on this topic here: http://au.rrforums.net/forum/messages/17002/9072.html?1416926861 I'm currently running NGK BPR5E. | ||
| ross kowalski Grand Master Username: cdfpw Post Number: 1078 Registered: 11-2015 |
Janne, What are problems you are experiencing with the ignition? | ||
| Jeff McCarthy Grand Master Username: jefmac2003 Post Number: 623 Registered: 5-2007 |
Okay, while we're on the subject I too have a question. I'm about to install a newly rebuilt (by Bob Chapman) Shadow engine: all my 1974 Shadow I original carbs, Australian delivery so no catalytic converter or other environmental add-ons, stainless exhaust. Bob coated the pistons, installed the best modern seals after remachining the grooves in new liners to fit: in short a proper rebuild on a crack tested etc top condition block. Everything that should be done to the moving bits was, valve grinding, remachining etc. So basically a clean slate engine. I will be installing Bob's Bosch based electronic ignition at the same time. I want to go with Richard Treacy's suggestion of NGK-GR4IX Iridiums in the above linked discussion. However, I don't want to play with gap changing. NGK says don't. What should the gap be on these plugs? p.s. my original engine is fine. Just needs sludge cleaned out. I'm hoping the money stretches to at least disassembly, cleaning and storage. The ultimate spare part :-) | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 3290 Registered: 4-2003 |
Jeff, 2" [51mm] or 2.25" [57mm], single or dual pipe exhaust system? More importantly, what gauge of stainless steel has been used [I am also assuming it is type 304 and not the early cheaper type 409 ferritic alloy]. Years ago when Repco were evaluating making after-market stainless steel exhaust kits, a series of tests found the light gauge stainless steel versions [light gauge to reduce cost] were noticeably noiser than the mild steel equivalents. Using heavier gauge stainless steel reduced the noise to acceptable levels and increased the price to unacceptable levels even with the use of the cheaper type 409. If my memory is correct, the OEM RRMC stainless steel systems were made from 10gauge type 304 for this reason and the susceptibility of type 409 to corrosion from road deicing salt in cold climates. The cost was not seen to be an issue....... . | ||
| Janne Aittola Experienced User Username: jannea Post Number: 14 Registered: 7-2018 |
Thank you Geoff, I will definitely read that linked discussion. And Ross, at the moment the engine seems to run only on 6-7 cylinders (little engine shaking when on idle), lacking power, starting to misfire when hot and accelerating and have only ~40 L/100 km gas consumption (= ignition and carburettor problems) What I have done this far is that carburettors has been ultrasonic cleaned and have inside all the new parts from SU, new HT leads, new Powerspark, new coil, new rotor, new cap, new spark plugs and the whole gas line has been renewed and cleaned. Now the carburettor is back on my table and I will clean and check it once more. And on ignition side I am gathering these good advice about single parts in ignition to be able to check or replace parts to find the root cause/causes. Fortunately I have also contact info to an old school SU carburettor and car electricity expert nearby, but always have to try to solve problems first by myself. PS. How much your 6.2 L engines running changes when running on partial cylinders? -janneA, Finland ... | ||
| h_kelly Grand Master Username: h_kelly Post Number: 331 Registered: 3-2012 |
Janne, have you ever jump lead your car with another battery or boost pack, if so this can affect module?. When you cleaned the carbs, did you clean the dash pot and piston as carbon can cause same to stick. If you have your old set of points condenser to hand, have you thought of reinstalling same to rule in or out new electronic ignition?. | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 2101 Registered: 5-2012 |
Janne engine shaking when on idle, lacking power, starting to misfire when hot and accelerating These were all the symptoms I had which turned out to be a a faulty Powerspark unit. It is a very cheap and simple test to remove the Powerspark and re-fit the points and condenser. No need to replace the coil or re-instate the ballast resister. If the engine then runs well, you have diagnosed the problem. | ||
| Janne Aittola Experienced User Username: jannea Post Number: 15 Registered: 7-2018 |
Thank you Geoff! That will then be the first thing I test when I get carburettors back to my car. -janneA/Finland ... | ||
| Janne Aittola Experienced User Username: jannea Post Number: 16 Registered: 7-2018 |
...and thank you also h_kelly! In fact I have started my car with extra help and as I mentioned the re-installing of the old system is a good idea. And I suppose that the carburettors have been cleaned quite well. -janneA ... | ||
| Mark Aldridge Grand Master Username: mark_aldridge Post Number: 605 Registered: 10-2008 |
Janne, I use NGK iridium 5 fine wire plugs in my Shadow and S1, and Iridium 4 in my 1988 Bentley8. Part numbers are different in the UK to USA and I think Aus. I had a lot of success using NGK 5 heat equivalent Bosch platinum plugs in my ex 1983 Mulsanne; these seemed impossible to foul! Mark | ||
| ross kowalski Grand Master Username: cdfpw Post Number: 1081 Registered: 11-2015 |
Janne, H_kelly and Geoff beat me to that. Install the points and see. Did this problem "start" at some point or has it always done this since you owned it? | ||
| Janne Aittola Experienced User Username: jannea Post Number: 17 Registered: 7-2018 |
Ross, I bought the car in 2016 and had several problems before a bigger restauration, so I can't comment the engine running at that time. Last fall the renovation was ready and after it I have had continuous problems with carburettors and now propably with ignition and have no certain point when this bigger misfire problem has started. So, now I am going through the carburettor adjusting and tuning once more and checking the ignition issues you have mentioned also in other misfire threads. ... | ||
| ross kowalski Grand Master Username: cdfpw Post Number: 1082 Registered: 11-2015 |
Janne, If I were going to come over with tools and help out... ( which I will not likely be doing because I'm more than a couple towns over) I would bring compression tester, tach, vacuum gauge, timing light, and a VOM. Oh yeah, and a spray bottle of water. I will do my best here to explain what I would do. 1. check the oil and coolant for condition. 2. Visually inspect the engine with special attention to hoses. 3. Pull the primary HT lead and listen to it crank. 4. Attach a vacuum gauge, reattach the HT lead and start the engine. 5. Maybe do a compression test based on the vacuum gauge results but at least look at the plugs. 6. Pull the cap on the dizzy and inspect the point gap, fire the coil with the points and look at the cap and rotor and advance weights. 7. Start the engine inside and mist the wires with water. 8. Pull plugs one at a time and watch the rpm. All of that might take an hour and a half. But it tells you what to do. I'll post what to look for for each test later. | ||
| Janne Aittola Experienced User Username: jannea Post Number: 18 Registered: 7-2018 |
Thank you Ross, the list sounds reasonable and great! -janneA | ||
| ross kowalski Grand Master Username: cdfpw Post Number: 1086 Registered: 11-2015 |
Janne, Here's what to look for. 1. oil should be at the correct level, smell like oil, and not have water in it identifiable by a whitish color. Often referred to as looking like a frappe. The coolant should be green and clear. This is done to see that it is safe to start the car. 2. This a hard one. It assumes you know exactly how things work. For a misfire check the plug wires, ends, coil wire, coil connections, wire at the dizzy, cracked or leaking vacuum lines, any air leaks at the manifold. 3. You pull the primary ht lead so the engine cranks over and doesn't fire. You should hear an even sound across all cylinders. 4. The RR has the mildest cam in the world so it's going to generate a lot of vacuum at idle. I don't remember the spec, but it should be high and steady meaning 20 ish inches of mercury and not varrying more than a couple needle widths if at all. If what you see is not that, look up what you see on the internet and do a compression test. 5. if you remove all the plugs, put the compression tester in each cylinder one at a time and crank the engine over while holding the throttle down. Each cylinder should read the same. If there is a low cylinder or two you put a little oil in each and see if the compression improves. If it does, the problem is rings that got sealed by the added oil. If it does not, it is valve or head gasket related. 6. the point gap should open and close the spec amount, the rotor should be able to rotate several degrees which shows the advance weights are free. The rotor should not have any wobble though. The rotor should be very carefully inspected for cracks and carbon tracks as should the cap. The terminals in the cap should be free of corrosion, if not clean them with a pen knife. If you put the HT lead from the dizzy and hold near a ground on the engine, the points can be manually cycled open and closed and the coil should produce a stout spark. 7. Spraying water mist around the engine is for a couple reasons. If you get the HT leads damp while the engine is running in a dark space you can imediatly see arcing wires. Water sprayed more heavily will identify vacuum leaks. You can look for vacuum leaks with propane as well where the propane gets sucked in the leak which restores the mixture and the idle smooths out. 8. While the engine is running, with proper pliers, remove the plug wires one by one while watchin a tachometer. The idle should drop as each plug wire is removed and rise when reconnected. If you pull a wire and the rpm doesn't drop or drops less than the others, something about the cylinder is off. I am able to get most all rough running problems diagnosed with the above data. If everything tests out normal there you move on to level 2 diagnostics which usually mean taking thins apart, like pulling bowls and looking for water in the fuel, etc. | ||
| h_kelly Grand Master Username: h_kelly Post Number: 332 Registered: 3-2012 |
Jane, you might ensure they fire trap filter is clean?. | ||
| Janne Aittola Experienced User Username: jannea Post Number: 19 Registered: 7-2018 |
Thank you Ross and H_Kelly, I will start to go through the list after I get carburettors back to my car and the fire trap filter should be clean. -janneA ... | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 2158 Registered: 9-2004 |
Have seen [scope] this type of fault when the HT coil is connected up the wrong way round! | ||
| Janne Aittola Experienced User Username: jannea Post Number: 20 Registered: 7-2018 |
Thank you Patrick, have to check that also. -janneA | ||
| Larry Kavanagh Grand Master Username: shadow_11 Post Number: 445 Registered: 5-2016 |
and I had similar symptoms a couple of years ago when I inadvertently left one of the small vacuum lines between the carbs and the mixture leaning device disconnected, engine would misfire terribly when cold, idle speed would fluctuate up and down at random and gradually settle once warmed up. |
