| Author | Message | |||
     P. Eng. Pierre Linh Raoul New User Username: thrasher Post Number: 10 Registered: 5-2018 |
Just got back from a quick and fast trip to Paris - 21mpg on the highway at speeds between 90-95mph Now now at 80mph it’s quiet however above it gets loud: should I fit the secondary seals I got from Flyingspares? | |||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Grand Master Username: soviet Post Number: 1249 Registered: 2-2013 |
Yes | |||
| Paul Yorke Grand Master Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 2095 Registered: 6-2006 |
Assess your gaps before you order them. They need to be wide enough all the way around for the seals to stay put. Good when the fit well though . | |||
| P. Eng. Pierre Linh Raoul Experienced User Username: thrasher Post Number: 11 Registered: 5-2018 |
Am questioning it as the shop who did all the works on it (Royce Engineering) did not want to put them on as it’s not as intended originally they said...and these guys are all ex Royce employees Or I need to drive with a lighter foot | |||
| Mark Aldridge Grand Master Username: mark_aldridge Post Number: 584 Registered: 10-2008 |
I have them on my Shadow and my Bentley8. They are brilliant. Mark | |||
| Larry Kavanagh Prolific User Username: shadow_11 Post Number: 270 Registered: 5-2016 |
Do these seals stick on top of the original seals or where? | |||
| Paul Yorke Grand Master Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 2097 Registered: 6-2006 |
On the stainless frame. Clean it really well. | |||
| Larry Kavanagh Prolific User Username: shadow_11 Post Number: 271 Registered: 5-2016 |
Thanks Paul. | |||
| P. Eng. Pierre Linh Raoul Experienced User Username: thrasher Post Number: 12 Registered: 5-2018 |
Well bad news: I tried fitting the secondary seals: they look nice and all and I can see how they would actually work: however the door gap is way too small and once fitted I cannot close the door, slamming to close it’s then impossible to re-open. My door gaps are even and tight all around and all 4 doors, no way to fit So a no-go on my T2 - I see why Royce did not want to fit them now. | |||
| P. Eng. Pierre Linh Raoul Experienced User Username: thrasher Post Number: 13 Registered: 5-2018 |
I need another solution, of secondary seal: the same in thinner | |||
| Larry Kavanagh Prolific User Username: shadow_11 Post Number: 272 Registered: 5-2016 |
According to the fitting instructions on Introcar Ltd website a 4mm minimum gap is required all around the door and window jam otherwise the seals will come away on door closing or opening. I think you will need to find a way to measure the existing gap all the way around and then search for a suitable seal unless there's a way to adjust the gap to suit these secondary seals. Maybe Woolies Trim and Upholstery would have a suitable sealing product. I'm in the same predicament as you, the wind noise at the driver's door is annoying to me although passengers say that they don't notice it. | |||
| P. Eng. Pierre Linh Raoul Experienced User Username: thrasher Post Number: 14 Registered: 5-2018 |
I’ve ordered new primary seals as a precaution - will get them fitted next week and let’s see....maybe more bearable at 90-95mph Or I’ll have to drop down to 70mph...shame as French highways are super smooth and over a 300miles trip the extra 20mph do make a difference | |||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Grand Master Username: soviet Post Number: 1254 Registered: 2-2013 |
There is an alternative. Install very good stereo system with large amplifier and subwoofer and crank ACDC or Rumjacks to just under maximum and that way the wind noise will not get to you. Your do should close elegantly with no need to slam it at all. Apart from using a purchased secondary seal you need to take your time and meticulously diagnosis the problem with the seals you fitted. If you have to slam the door or if after the door is slammed it is difficult to open then you are over stressing your door locks. | |||
| Christian S. Hansen Grand Master Username: enquiring_mind Post Number: 981 Registered: 4-2015 |
This has provoked my curiosity. 90 to 95 mph (not kph)?? Seems a bit fast. Are those the speed limits in France, or are you indulging yourself unlawfully??? I gotta wonder! . | |||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Grand Master Username: soviet Post Number: 1255 Registered: 2-2013 |
Opps, perhaps Thrasher should have googled the UK site by Safe travel on French speed limits. Nasty stuff including big on the spot fines, confiscation of car and getting put on their National Register. Methinks thrasher should go the autobahn to retest the door seals but should check this T2 has not been listed on that Register before re-entry of France. Errk indeedy! | |||
| Paul Yorke Grand Master Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 2099 Registered: 6-2006 |
Shadow door gaps are much tighter and often less even than SZ gaps. Even on SZ cars they can be clingy to the body. We apply a dry silicone lubricant to the rubber and body to keep them free. New door seals usually help. I assume you fitted the secondary seals fat side away from the body. 95 mph is ok of you are in a mad rush but it really pushes up the fuel consumption. A bit like pushing a brick through water at that speed. ;( | |||
| Christian S. Hansen Grand Master Username: enquiring_mind Post Number: 982 Registered: 4-2015 |
Paul... One curiosity at a time!! 21 mpg at 90 mph? Hmmm...I wasn't mentioning it though...just curious. I rarely get over 10-12 in '68 Shadow MPW and in '86 Spur not even that. What's the secret?? P.S. Applying the ratio of Imperial vs US gallons (5:4) brings it down to 17 which still exceeds my wildest dreams at 65 mph highway driving. Should I drive faster? LOL . | |||
| Paul Yorke Grand Master Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 2100 Registered: 6-2006 |
Ha. I hadn't clocked that Christian! | |||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 2007 Registered: 9-2004 |
IMO drive with a lighter foot better for MPG. Forget the secondary door seals crap idea to try and get over the real fault, pressure high and low without forgetting drag! including cross wind high pressure. We also have the car interior with pressure at speed, test try closing down all the inlet vents controls and use some foam blocks for the boot lid to close with a nice clonk but really leaves a small gap for the car inside pressure to escape. Make sure the two vent flaps are working correctly behind the rear seat panel, don't want exhaust or any petrol fumes returning inside the car when outside high pressure occurs at lower speed differential. Resume the use of air vents etc if ok. | |||
| gordon le feuvre Prolific User Username: triumph Post Number: 278 Registered: 7-2012 |
Out of interest secondary seals came about as German dealers were having issues with wind noise on autobahn. The originals apparently were Mercedes, bought up secretly from dealer network! On Shadow, even after new seals help, a "tweak" of window frame inwards with knee against inside of door works. Can tell if too much as loading on button to open door increases! | |||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Grand Master Username: soviet Post Number: 1256 Registered: 2-2013 |
21 mpg at 90-95 mph I suggest is possible in a Bentley T2 with a 100 mph tail wind. Otherwise I think it would be a possible miscalculation. At that speed in France I think the calculation of fuel economy is irrelevant to the cost of having your Bentley seized for scalliwag capers. The above posts are very educational in relation to the wind noise/door seal question. | |||
| P. Eng. Pierre Linh Raoul Experienced User Username: thrasher Post Number: 15 Registered: 5-2018 |
I measured 3 times my mpg between retanking, both Friday on the way to Paris and Saturday back to London, dry and cold...yes 21/22 mpg running at 90/95mph...beautiful highways we have in France In town at home (London) however i certainly average 10-11 mpg like you all. 90-95mph is only 145-152kmh...cops don't really care: it's not a huge excess (especially as there is a 5% free allowance) At 105mph / 170kmh however, bye bye car on the spot, start walking | |||
| P. Eng. Pierre Linh Raoul Experienced User Username: thrasher Post Number: 16 Registered: 5-2018 |
Oups i meant 21-22 litres per 100km...so indeed 11-12mpg at 90-95mph And like 7mpg in central london | |||
| Christian S. Hansen Grand Master Username: enquiring_mind Post Number: 983 Registered: 4-2015 |
OK, these two curiosities aside, back to the original question. IMHO if the weather striping is such that the noise level is silent at 70mph and only evident at 90-95 and considering that those seals are now going on 40 years old, the likely cause is simply the most minor deterioration of those seals and will likely be rectified by a minor tweaking or more likely a replacement of the original seals properly (emphasis on properly) installed. Where the gaps of such size that the secondary seals would be appropriate, I would imagine that the wind noise would be noticeable at ANY speed, annoying at 70, and deafening at 90 mph. The issue is degraded original seals more than likely. Look there first. The Royce mechanics were simply answering the wrong question. i.e. "I have wind noise. Should I install the secondary seals?" rather than "I have wind noise. Is it possible that the original seals are past there prime of life and need replacement?" I am surprised however that they did not point this out in their response which would have been quite a bit more helpful. . | |||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 2009 Registered: 9-2004 |
Just take the car to over a ton+ [on the test track] and feel the window frames move and lift of the seal gaps, more so with cross winds. Without the boot mod! | |||
| Robert J. Sprauer Frequent User Username: wraithman Post Number: 82 Registered: 11-2017 |
I replaced all door and glass seals on my 1980 Wraith. The compression of the original door seals is obvious when compared to the new. Some of the new seals have a foam core that helps keep the profile. Age is a factor. The cost for 4 door seals on a Shadow/Wraith is approx $600 without labor. One can easily install the seals with the proper plastic tools. | |||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 3072 Registered: 4-2003 |
There is another aid that helps restore older less supple elastomer seals to "as new" condition which is much loved by convertible owners traditionally plagued by water leaks and wind noise. We also have a 10 year old VW Eos hardtop convertible and I discovered a seal lubricant/conditioner that dramatically reduced the incidence of water leaks and wind noise which plague owners of convertibles. This was originally available from VW, BMW and Mercedes-Benz dealers world-wide plus HSV and Mitsubishi here in Australia.  It is a special lubricant manufactured by Dupont in the USA called Krytox GPL105: http://www2.dupont.com/Lubricants/en_US/assets/downloads/H-58510-5_Krytox_Typical_Properties.pdf I purchased a quantity of this product direct from an Australian Dupont wholesaler who supplied the product to Mitsubishi - a bottle containing 50gm of liquid cost AUD90 and has lasted 3 years for twice yearly full seal treatments [roof, door and window seals]. The product is used sparingly and applied to all elastomer seals - old hard dull grey seals quickly become supple, soft and matt black in colour and the seal can be reshaped manually to eliminate gaps between the seal and body work. I just put a drop of lubricant on my finger tip and massage it along the seal surface until there is no more lubricant changing the seal colour and then get a new drop and start on the next section of untreated seal. Be warned, Ebay has numerous listings for other low-priced seal conditioners claiming to be equal to GPL105 however these have been proved to be either diluted GPL105 which is less effective or other compounds which DO NOT work as effectively as GPL105. IMHO, GPL105 is a classic example of "you get what you pay for" - the quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten.
 . | |||
| Steve Emmott Experienced User Username: steve_e Post Number: 17 Registered: 11-2018 |
I regularly achieved 18MPG average on our 800 mile trips to our French home from the UK. Probably around 50% autoroute 50% urban. I never knowingly speed and keep to the 130km/h=80mph on the autoroute but some of the urban roads most of the time it was difficult to know whether it was 90 or 70 km/h limits so occasionally got flashed before I had the TomTom speed camera warning device.....never any follow up fines ever came. You do have to be very careful though of the sneaky French cameras as they can turn up anywhere  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvYxXBMqEOM | |||
| P. Eng. Pierre Linh Raoul Experienced User Username: thrasher Post Number: 17 Registered: 5-2018 |
ahahahaha loved the video! well done on the 18mpg too | |||
| Larry Kavanagh Prolific User Username: shadow_11 Post Number: 299 Registered: 5-2016 |
Thanks for the funny video Steve, just wondering, if that camera man is being arrested for being a public nuisance does it not follow that speed cameras must all be considered a public nuisance?! I reckon I can get 18MPG too in my Silver Shadow 11 if I tip along sedately at approx. 100 KPH and don't accelerate too fast. | |||
| Christian S. Hansen Grand Master Username: enquiring_mind Post Number: 1034 Registered: 4-2015 |
1) Do you folks in Australia use Imperial gallons or US gallons? 2) Am I correct to assume that in UK it goes without question that a MPG figure is based on the Imperial gallon unless specifically stated otherwise? . | |||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Grand Master Username: soviet Post Number: 1296 Registered: 2-2013 |
Christian we use neither Imperial Gallons nor US Gallons. Gallons were used up until 1966. Those gallons were imperial gallons. After 1996 we changed to litres. Prices on litres depending where you are can vary from up to $2.00 AUD per litre down. Water in the petrol/gas is no additional price. Prices in cities can vary from station to station wildly and then you have to supermarkets that give you a discount voucher on your grocery receipt that can drop the price by 4 cents a litre. My solution to the debacle in never to look at the price per litre - just roll in, fill up and then pay otherwise its annoying. | |||
| Steve Emmott Experienced User Username: steve_e Post Number: 20 Registered: 11-2018 |
Christian, regarding the second question yes in the UK we still seem conditioned in our brains with MPG and it is an imperial gallon. Even our new cars whether from Europe or homeland come with the electronic digital route displays still showing MPG but some do have features where you can change to litres per KM. I suppose while we still use MPH on our speedos and roads it is an area not yet dealt with, but it is all so confusing when we have to buy fuel in litres. | |||
| Christian S. Hansen Grand Master Username: enquiring_mind Post Number: 1035 Registered: 4-2015 |
Steve... Thanks. You touched on what would have been a follow up question regarding my recollection of fuel being sold in litres which I though would/does add another level of confusion. | |||
| P. Eng. Pierre Linh Raoul Experienced User Username: thrasher Post Number: 18 Registered: 5-2018 |
Brand new seals...super effective, very happy They were a pain to install however, especially as it’s freezing cold here right now! Had to use the heat gun a couple times to make it easier to push through. Huge huge difference...now can cruise at 80-90mph without door/window wind noise. Noise now only coming from the boxy windscreen, normal...a brick going through air will never be silent. Got to do the rear ones, I can hear a slight difference. | |||
| P. Eng. Pierre Linh Raoul Experienced User Username: thrasher Post Number: 19 Registered: 5-2018 |
Another trip...gone surfing, yes a surfboard can fit in the boot (2more inside along with the baby seats) But most importantly, been cruising over 200miles at 90mph and brand new secondary seals (from Flyingspares) are amazing! Benny is actually a lot quieter than our G55k AMG at cruising. Can only recommend! Do not hesitate, it’s life changing! |
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