| Author | Message | ||
     Stefan Ihnat Experienced User Username: stefan87 Post Number: 39 Registered: 8-2017 |
Previous owner repaint the bonnet, and disconnect bonned lamp light cables.  I have bonnet lamp switch, in the switch are 2 cables.  I tried to find out where the cables could go, but I found no free cables. Thank you. | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 2463 Registered: 6-2009 |
Stefan, I'll snag a photo on LRK37110 tomorrow. I currently have the air intake trunk off giving me easy photographic access. I also found that I did my usual ID numbering on these connections when I took the hood/bonnet off of my car several years ago. Brian | ||
| Stefan Ihnat Experienced User Username: stefan87 Post Number: 40 Registered: 8-2017 |
Thank you Brian, that would help me a lot. | ||
| Paul Yorke Grand Master Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 1925 Registered: 6-2006 |
On my mobile so photos t :/oo big. . . Try here https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1491908634178637&id=137933226242858 | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 2707 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hi Paul, I am happy to process and post your photos as I did recently for Jeanne Eve and Patrick Ryan who emailed me the originals from their cameras/mobile phone as appropriate during their travels. Just email them to drh14434[AT@]yahoo.com.au [delete brackets and capital letters for correct address] and problem solved. Regards David | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 1584 Registered: 9-2004 |
From the main loom two wires, colour, one red one purple. Red connects to the red wire on the light loom. The purple connects to either one of two purple wires on the switch. The other purple switch wire connects to the black light loom.   | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 2467 Registered: 6-2009 |
For the sake of clarity, wiring notation for Crewe wiring diagrams is helpful: ------------------------------------------------ Wire Color Designations in Crewe Electrical Diagrams COLOR LETTER Insulation Color ============ ================ B Black G Green LG Light Green K Pink N Brown O Orange P Purple R Red S Slate (Gray) U Blue W White Y Yellow Examples: • UR = Blue wire with Red tracer stripe • SLG = Gray wire with Light Green tracer stripe NUMBER: For Shadow & Derivatives: Gives the number of strands in the wire. Larger numbers are heavier wire. • Example: 14 UR = 14 strand Blue wire with Red tracer stripe For Spur/Spirit & Derivatives: Gives the diameter of the wire in mm. Larger numbers are heavier wire • Example: 0.5 PY = 0.5 mm strand Purple wire with Yellow tracer stripe ------------------------------------------------  The arrangement in LRK37110 and SRH33576 are both essentially the same as what Patrick Lockyer has noted with the exception of some of the wire colors. The Switch itself has two wires, both purple [P] (even though partially covered in black paint in the photo - which is there from the previous custodian). The Loom has two wires, one black [B] and the other purple [P]. The Bonnet leads going to the lamp are one black [B] wire and the other purple with red tracer [PR] Loom B goes to one of the Switch P Loom P goes to Bonnet PR Remaining Switch P goes to Bonnet B. None of the above is particularly easy to see in the photo. Brian | ||
| Randy Roberson Grand Master Username: wascator Post Number: 779 Registered: 5-2009 |
Neither of my Cars' lamps work; frustration so far, but I perhaps will get them to work one day... | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 2472 Registered: 6-2009 |
Randy, At the risk of unleashing the Crewe hounds from hell, the bonnet switch on these cars is, to put it mildly, crap. I have done the WD40 treatment on the one on SRH33576 multiple times and while it works for a while it always dies not too terribly long after. I think I should use either Caig DeOxIt or TV tuner cleaner to see if I get a longer revival. The one on LRK37110 functions. These particular switches are definitely not high quality, in any way. Brian | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 1587 Registered: 9-2004 |
The switches on both SS1 SS2 are quality products after forty + years are still the original and going strong. IMO if you have failings then look no further than using WD40 it attracts dust and holds dirt within the switch.[contacts] The position of the switch does not help with the turbulence from the fan bringing the dust dirty air. In some cases the engine may well be clapped out letting engine crankcase fumes to circulate within the engine bay!.........   | ||
| Paul Yorke Grand Master Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 1929 Registered: 6-2006 |
I'd say it is beyond dount a quality switch. But where it is being used is wrong ;) A shame Cloud boot light switches weren't used. Well. . .apart from the environment of course!! | ||
| Robert Noel Reddington Grand Master Username: bob_uk Post Number: 1557 Registered: 5-2015 |
my 1974 Shadow bonnet light and switch is original and poor quality. YAY | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 2473 Registered: 6-2009 |
The bonnet switch on the SYs is cheap plastic, poorly constructed for its environment, and subject to ingress by water and other crud with ease given its placement. It's a crap shoot as to whether they'll work or not. I can't recall having a light switch for the bonnet/hood fail in any other car and the others I've actually touched have been much heavier duty and had dust covers. Paul, just curious, but were the Cloud boot light switches mercury switches? Brian | ||
| Patrick Francis Prolific User Username: jackpot Post Number: 193 Registered: 11-2016 |
My bonnet lamp is good, switch is also good, but feed works only when there is an easterly wind and a full moon. Still can’t get to the bottom of it.One of lifes mysteries....? | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 1588 Registered: 9-2004 |
Bob why do you say it is poor quality. Are you having trouble with it working or have you replaced it many times? My 43 year old SS1, when I purchased it years ago with less than 15000 miles on it had a bonnet light switch that worked intermittently, once cured it has remained ok. | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 1589 Registered: 9-2004 |
Brian its only another good quality product that does not seem to work on your car, are you losing coolant, maybe the cure is not in the manuals!......when was it last operational. | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 2474 Registered: 6-2009 |
Patrick, Contrary to your protestations, it is not and was not a good quality product. Contrary to your endless speculations neither one of my cars is a hopeless basket case, either. I don't know why you always wish to cast me as an unobservant idiot who cannot reason his way out of a paper bag working on cars that are held together with masking tape, but that's not something I'm ever going to solve, or care to solve, either. It just does not register with you both how offensive and how unhelpful these speculations are. They're useless diversions based upon nothing but wild imaginings. You are quite lucky that your bonnet switch repair was a "one and done." It's not just my own that hasn't been, and I have been shocked at just how many of these switches I know of that have failed either temporarily or permanently. They just don't to that on any of the other marques I've owned. Crewe was known to go "on the cheap" during the dark days of the 1970s, and they certainly did on this switch. The wiring loom also uses a lot of wires that should have been a bit beefier, too. The wiring to the window motors looks like something typically used to run a toy car. Brian | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 2475 Registered: 6-2009 |
Patrick Francis:
There's a reason that, "Lucas, prince of darkness," came into the lexicon. That, and the fact that age and heat can have some very interesting effects on wiring, particularly insulation (or some of it anyway. Why some stays fresh as a proverbial daisy and others crumbles to dust is one of life's mysteries). Brian | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 1832 Registered: 5-2012 |
"Lucas, prince of darkness," I've always wondered if Lucas are unfairly criticized. Is it just a negative folklore that has built up around the Company, based on the fact that people are comparing wiring, electrical parts and connectors that are 40 years old with more modern technologies. Just curious. Geoff | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 2476 Registered: 6-2009 |
Geoff, All I can say in regard to this is that this particular phrase was in use for as long as I can remember, and is seemingly most beloved among British car repair technicians. I have never seen any indication that this has to do in any way with "old Lucas" or by comparing modern technology to its ancestors. I know that when I was in the market for my Jaguar I very intentionally started with the 1999 model year precisely because it had a completely new electrical system designed under Ford and with no Lucas components. One of my uncles is an MG enthusiast of long standing and I remember his complaining about 1960s cars in the early 1970s with regard to Lucas electrical issues. Brian | ||
| Robert Noel Reddington Grand Master Username: bob_uk Post Number: 1558 Registered: 5-2015 |
Pat L, Yes you have a point the system does work after 43 years of zero maintenance and one repair job. So maybe I am a bit harsh but I want a super duper bonnet light. | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 2477 Registered: 6-2009 |
Robert Noel Reddington:
And I'd say that assessment were 100% correct if there was not a more than adequate sample size from these very forums alone with regard to that particular part. If I add in rollsroyceforums.com and what I saw on the RROC-US forums there is little doubt that these switches are atypically problematic in their class. A sample size of one is neither statistically valid nor particularly safe from which to generalize. (I would have sworn up and down that the Lucas Opus electronic ignition was "bulletproof" until I had my own personal failure with one and then started digging and found out that they are a common weak point.) Patterns do emerge if you pay attention to the number and frequency of certain complaints over time. | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 1833 Registered: 5-2012 |
My bonnet lamp has never worked. I have never tried to locate or inspect the switch as I consider it an advantage to have it not working. One more to Brian's tally. | ||
| Christian S. Hansen Grand Master Username: enquiring_mind Post Number: 625 Registered: 4-2015 |
#metoo! | ||
| richard george yeaman Grand Master Username: richyrich Post Number: 855 Registered: 4-2012 |
Mine works. Richard. | ||
| Robert Noel Reddington Grand Master Username: bob_uk Post Number: 1559 Registered: 5-2015 |
The switch is not of good quality. I have a spare Honeywell micro switch. suspect flat battery blamed on bonnet light and it get disconnected. | ||
| Randy Roberson Grand Master Username: wascator Post Number: 781 Registered: 5-2009 |
I am inspired to attack my Cars' underbonnet lamps again tomorrow. If I can find a hot wire I can get it to work somehow. | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 1590 Registered: 9-2004 |
For those who want to carry out a simple job to get the good quality switch operational doing the job in place. This is with a good 12v feed and earthing with good connections tested first if ok disconnect the battery. If you have a steel oil can cleaned out and fill with a little gun wash thinners. Spray the area of the switch plunger so it soaks into the switch contacts, have a supply of compressed air and blast the air into the switch via the working plunger up and down untill all signs of dirty thinners is expelled and air dried. Thinners was used years ago but I would use brake cleaner fluid now as the switch being of good quality will handle the the make up of the product. I doubt if this will work if the contacts have been corroded due to antifreeze leakage from a leaking header or rad also a failed over flow pipe. Hey we can then blame a bad quality switch!!... Lucas systems and all have failings, more so with folk tinkering it seems. | ||
| Robert Noel Reddington Grand Master Username: bob_uk Post Number: 1560 Registered: 5-2015 |
The design of the system is too complex. A light with a mercury switch built in with a simple 1 wire circuit would be better. | ||
| Randy Roberson Grand Master Username: wascator Post Number: 783 Registered: 5-2009 |
After reading this thread, I was motivated to resume my attempt to get both Cars' bonnet lamps up to snuff. Opportunity presented as I was waiting for the tractor's battery to charge before planting a couple acres of Crimson Clover. I found I have 12 Volts at the correct harness wire and jumpering around the switch caused the lamp to light. Removing the offending switch proved to be terrible. Who would have mounted the thing in a spot which seems readily accessible yet proved not to be? Who would have mounted the thing with two tiny machine screws with tiny nuts, which required two tools to remove, especially when one is slightly corroded? The switch is bad anyway, so I cut one of the screws with side cutters and got the switch out. Turns out we have condemned The Prince Of Darkness without a proper trial: my switch is clearly marked "Burlen" and "List No. S-621". Still a Spawn Of Satan, though. I am tempted to name this entire Car "Spawn Of Satan", but that is another thread, as everything is three times as complex and difficult to access and repair as it should be. Now, for some sort of replacement switch. | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 2478 Registered: 6-2009 |
Randy, Crewe did adore their "boutique engineering" which seemed inspired by Rube Goldberg. The longer I own my cars the less I understand a lot of the decisions that Crewe made. There are very many things to recommend the cars that came from Crewe - but rationality of engineering and any attempt to adhere to the old KISS principle are not among them. Now that you mention it about that switch I believe I even removed the one from SRH33576 and disassembled it for thorough cleaning as I recall that "two tiny nuts and machine screws" aspect rather distinctly as well as the difficulty of extracting the thing from the car. Had it included a functional and durable dust cover I suspect that 99.999% of the issues that occur would have been avoided. The location of the thing is such that the area is a crud trap and the plunger is most exposed to where the crud would make its ingress. Brian | ||
| Randy Roberson Grand Master Username: wascator Post Number: 786 Registered: 5-2009 |
You are right in that this is not the correct switch for the application. This switch is not intended for a dirty wet environment. There are sealed switches for a dollar or less which will survive. I am going to another, better switch. Incidentally, while I was perusing the SU/Burlen web site, I ran across their offering of variations of thermal switches used in jaguars, MGs, and other British cars to turn on auxiliary fans, etc. and they appear to be exactly like the famous Otter switches our Cars use. Their prices were about 1/10 those being asked elsewhere for Otter switches for RR. These might be a good addition to your substitute spare parts list. | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 2480 Registered: 6-2009 |
Randy, If you or the cohort can map which of the thermal switches is the functional equivalent of the various Otter switches I'll be happy to add this data. Every additional bit helps to move these cars further from "uneconomical to maintain" and becoming parts donors. Brian | ||
| Martin Taylor Prolific User Username: martin_taylor Post Number: 128 Registered: 7-2013 |
 | ||
| Martin Taylor Prolific User Username: martin_taylor Post Number: 129 Registered: 7-2013 |
These are a poor design by today’s standards, in their time however it was much better than the usual grounding contact switches, a mercury switch on the hinge would have been better but these things are delicate and Mercury is now considered dangerous | ||
| John Kilkenny Grand Master Username: john_kilkenny Post Number: 302 Registered: 6-2005 |
For Australian users, Jaycar has a festoon LED lamp suitable for the Shadow underbonnet light, at 150 Lumens a great improvement on the original. With a clever diode arrangement it is bi-directional. The part number is ZD-0752.  | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 2201 Registered: 05-2012 |
Randy Did you ever get to find a good replacement for the hood light switch? A couple of months ago I removed the faulty one on my car (SRX18501) with a view to replacing it. It is a Bulgin S621, as marked on the casing. It was at that time advertised for 95 GBP at Flying Spares. A quick internet search showed this switch to be available for circa $15, however most of the suppliers were out of stock. I did try buying one from a Polish and then a Czech website (using google translate). Both failed to deliver however Paypal refunded my money in both cases. It looks like Bulgin have ceased making them as they are not listed in their current catalogue. If anyone knows of a supplier for the Bulgin S621 or a viable alternative I would be interested to hear. I note that FS are now offering the part at 45 ukp - tempting. Sorry for this rambling entry - helps stop me going stir crazy during this enforced isolation. Geoff | ||
| Robert J. Sprauer Frequent User Username: wraithman Post Number: 604 Registered: 11-2017 |
The contacts are the usual problem. If you drill out the rivets you stand a good chance of bringing it back to life. Replace the rivets with very small machine screws. You have nothing to lose. | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 2202 Registered: 05-2012 |
Hi Robert The problem is the rivets are tubular and the mounting screws pass through them. A bit of ingenuity should get round that however. If I can't find a replacement that is the route I will take.  | ||
| ross kowalski Prolific User Username: cdfpw Post Number: 1372 Registered: 11-2015 |
Geoff, Tubular rivets are not impossible, the trick on this one is that the material being joined is quite brittle. A qualified jeweler should be able to make and set a pair of rivets to hold the thing together. Good hunding, | ||
| Randy Roberson Frequent User Username: wascator Post Number: 836 Registered: 05-2009 |
I would try skipping the rivets and let the mount screws hold it together. Might take a fiddle. I gave it a rest befor success and have been concentrating on the 1931 Pierce-Arrow. Engine is back from the shop and I am finishing up the firewall rehab/paint and rewire so I can get on with the engine-transmission install. Seems I did find a usable switch but I don’t recall what it is; nothing special though. | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 2203 Registered: 05-2012 |
Ross/Randy - thanks for your replies. I will go with using the mount screws in the first instance - I can recess a nut to hold the unit together and use the same setscrew to mount it. 1931 Pierce Arrow - wow - awesome. | ||
| Graham Phillips Frequent User Username: playtime Post Number: 251 Registered: 03-2019 |
G'day everyone,..... Funny but I was just thinking about changing out the boot-bonnet and interior lights to LED's,.... Also I was going to suggest blowing out the WD-40 with compressed air but that's already been mentioned,.... Graham. | ||
| Mark Aldridge Frequent User Username: mark_aldridge Post Number: 671 Registered: 10-2008 |
I use this mounted to a bracket using the original mounting holes. More reliable than the original. suitable for SZ series also. https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/push-button-adaptor-kits/1570982/ https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/microswitches/1571036/ I also use LED for all interior, bonnet and boot lights. Mark | ||
| Edward Mckinley New User Username: ed_mckinley Post Number: 6 Registered: 10-2019 |
My 89 Corniche uses the same swithch. It was intermittently working and I was able to find a new Bulgin switch on ebay (which was listed as a cabinet switch). Quality of the switch aside, its location and lack of protection make it vulnerable to moisture,etc as well as being a real bear to install. If however, you are looking for a parasitic drain, its a great place to start your search | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 2283 Registered: 05-2012 |
I've been unable to find a Bulgin S621 bonnet courtesy light switch so used the search term "cabinet switch", as detailed in Edward Mckinley's entry, above. I came across a set of 4 on Amazon at 2 bucks each. They are listed as "environmentally friendly, non-toxic, wear-resistant, rust-proof, corrosion-resistant, flame-retardant, durable." They arrived today and here's the thing - all the crucial measurements are the same as the original Bulgin switch. The rivet holes are the same diameter and distance apart, the switch push is the same height, relative to the rivet holes and the thickness of the switch is the same. Now comes the real test - seeing how long the switch lasts when I've fitted it. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07YTC8VYH?tag=ftb-seller-20&geniuslink=true . | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 3226 Registered: 06-2009 |
Geoff, Do report back. I have to believe it will last at least as long as the original. With any luck, it will be sealed somewhat better, as my observation is that "crud that crept in" is the killer on these things. On SRH33576 I was able to stage revivals on the original switch by using Caig DeOxIt or similar, but the effect was always relatively brief, as it either evaporated, more crud crept in, or both. Brian | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 2284 Registered: 05-2012 |
Hi Brian Yes, I will report back when I've evaluated it on the car. I would have reported it to you as a substitute part, as the original is now made from unobtainium, however there is no clear manufacturers label on it so I'm not sure when it will disappear from Amazon. FS sell the Bulgin part at $56 but they are recycled parts, so they too will be likely to fail after a short time. Geoff | ||
| Robert J. Sprauer Frequent User Username: wraithman Post Number: 703 Registered: 11-2017 |
While you have the old one out, drill out the rivets. You will usually find corroded contacts. I rebuilt several and replaced the rivets with brass hardware. It is also a good opportunity to install a SPST toggle switch inline with the switch wire, The factory Lucar snap terminals all around make it easier. Next time when leaving the bonnet open, you won't have battery drain. Nice to know you sourced a good replacement. | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 2285 Registered: 05-2012 |
Hi Robert I was carefully drilling out the second rivet on my bench drill and the case cracked. I was really annoyed with myself, even though I was being really careful. I considered trying to epoxy the case back together but since I came across these replacements I have decided to take this route. I'm not a stickler for originality, just so long as the character of the car is not changed. I might take up your suggestion of an inline switch. I had considered this but since I have a master shutoff switch the battery is always isolated when the car is in the garage and for the majority of time when I'm working on it. I'm still undecided. As for them being a good replacement - I'm about to find out. Lets just say the switches are not made in America, so the quality is not guaranteed. Geoff | ||
| Alan Dibley Frequent User Username: alsdibley Post Number: 333 Registered: 10-2009 |
Note the IP rating of the RS switch referenced by Mark. IP67 is almost as weather-proof as you can get. (Look it up on Wikipedia). It is meant for environments which are hot, damp, dusty and windy like - um - car engine bays. RS sells stuff aimed the professional engineering market. For that sort of switch I would automatically go to RS. They have been around for a LOOOONG time - I used them in my teens for radio and TV spares (the origin of RS is Radio Spares). I would expect that switch to last for ever in that application, barring mechanical damage or a dead short somewhere in the circuit applying too many Amps. Alan D. |
