Post Number: 629
|Posted on Monday, 14 March, 2005 - 05:47 am: |
The old thread was a little too large, so let's start anew.
Pat, my experiences are similar to yours.
On our T-Series, I used DOT4 on the bad advice of a Chemical Engineer mate at ICI. I was his Best Man, and the bad advice did no harm.
The rams groaned and a pump pushrod broke just months afterwards, so I switched back to RR363. What a marginal design again !!
I expect that neither would happen with LHS2 or even with a higher viscosity fluid with good lubrication. The SZ cars use LHM. Their hydraulics seem to last forever. LHM has an even higher viscosity than RR363, but being simple mineral oil, LHM is a far better lubricant. It seems that viscosity is not relevant, just that lubrication properties prevail. I am open to any correction or opinion be assured.
Post Number: 67
|Posted on Monday, 14 March, 2005 - 12:52 pm: |
I think the efforts of the Victorians and others in trying to make a substitute for RR363 are admirable, but possibly a bit naively simplistic.
I wrote earlier in the other part of this thread I wouldn't just go making your own RR363 by bunging some castor oil in a bottle of Dot3/4 and giving it a shake. I imagine there is more to it than that, with stabilizers and solubility agents, etc.....(on the other hand it might just work!!..) but, seriously I wouldn't risk a home made brew for brakes under any circumstances.
This is a safety issue, and my concerns would be more about miscibility/solubility, more than viscosity. I imagine Castrol would have had ingredients or a manufacturing process to stop the castor separating out like cream does from (unhomogenised) milk. Imagine sections of the hydraulics with pure castor separating out, especially after standing...wouldn't be good.
Also, what is the moisture content, (if any), in refined castor that is commercially avilable? You don't want to be adding ANY moisture to the hygroscopic DOT 3/4.
There are other questions that may need answering also, but I think this alone would be cause for concerned investigation before embarking on a "home-brew" RR363 substitute, without knowing the precise formula and/or manufacturing process.
Just my 2 cents worth of observations...
Post Number: 363
|Posted on Monday, 14 March, 2005 - 05:31 pm: |
Does any one know the viscosity of pure castor oil at given temps,
shorly it must be more than Dot 3/4.
Prehaps i should mean the stuff goes waxy when cold!
Post Number: 632
|Posted on Monday, 14 March, 2005 - 08:37 pm: |
It varies. Castrol R is available as SAE 30 (Castrol R30) and SAE 40 (Castrol R40). There is also Castrol 747, an SAE 40 semi-synthetic alternative, still based on castor oil. Guess where the name Castrol originated ? CASToROiL of course.
Here is an extract from the data sheet of Castrol R30 castor oil. The mention of additives alone confirm Gordons warnings against fooling around with a home brew.
Castrol R30 is a castor-based lubricant containing specially prepared additives to prevent rapid deterioration through oxidation. Its superior oiliness over mineral oils, imparted by the chemical structure of its components, gives it a great affinity for hot surfaces and provides excellent load-carrying properties which is an important consideration with highly stressed engines running at peak revolutions.
Although Castrol R is primarily designed for the racing world, its unique properties can also benefit the private owner interested in really high performance. When selecting and engine lubricant for Kart engines, Castrol R does provide the ultimate in lubrication in return for extra cost. If the best possible performance coupled with reliability is the aim, then the remarkable stamina and great film strength of Castrol R will provide a valuable "margin of safety" at ultra high engine speeds and temperatures.
William H. Trovinger II
Post Number: 188
|Posted on Friday, 25 March, 2005 - 02:26 pm: |
Disclaimer: I am NOT suggesting that anyone try this in their Shadow. I am running and will continue to run only RR 363 in SRE23726, as long as I can get it.
That said, for those that are experimenting (not in a Shadow) with alternatives for RR 363 I have an idea of one possible avenue to look into, aviation hydraulic fluid. For 12 years I have been using Snoway International, Inc snowplows on my trucks. These plows (unlike others) use a hydraulic system not only to raise, lower and turn the plow but also a continual pressure to give more downward force. The only lubrication in the system comes from the hydraulic fluid and these systems are running a heat range I believe is far greater than that of our Shadows. I purchase my fluid from the manufacture and know that the fluid is of an aviation grade and type. I have written Snoway and asked them for detailed specifications on their fluid. If they provide me with same I will be happy to pass it along.
Post Number: 23
|Posted on Sunday, 27 March, 2005 - 07:51 am: |
This is most interesting! Very, very good contributing, especially knowing that RR has been doing with aviation techs so long... maybe the answer lays just before our eyes. How about prices and availability of that stuff, should it prove fitting?