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Ben Curtis
Experienced User
Username: burgundyben

Post Number: 42
Registered: 12-2015
Posted on Sunday, 02 April, 2017 - 07:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Not going as well as I might have hoped....

Engine 1 - in the car, incomplete, very poorly.

Engine 2 - I bought from a car breaking, one head was stuck on, properly stuck, I set it aside.

Engine 3 - I bought a spares car and pulled the lump, stripped it down, looked ok, took the block to a RR chap to have the liners pulled and re-sealed......this block is now cracked, and scrap. Its a well known risk with them that pulling liners can crack the block. Apparently it went with a bang.

Engine 2 - got pulled from the corner, I cut the stuck head off. It looks like this block might be ok. I have the major building blocks. Hopefully this will survive the liner pulling...
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Jeff Young
Grand Master
Username: jeyjey

Post Number: 336
Registered: 10-2010
Posted on Sunday, 02 April, 2017 - 08:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Nothing like a good challenge, Ben!

Cheers,
Jeff.
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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 1668
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Sunday, 02 April, 2017 - 08:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Ben

Did your RR chap heat the block up before pulling the liners? If the liner went with a bang it means far too much force was being applied. There are several threads on this forum which are worth consulting before attempting to remove the liners on engine 2.

Geoff
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Ben Curtis
Experienced User
Username: burgundyben

Post Number: 43
Registered: 12-2015
Posted on Sunday, 02 April, 2017 - 05:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Yes, the block was heated. He's an ex Hythe Road RR tech with masses of experience. The block was very poor inside, lots of corrosion.

When stripping block - 2. I tipped it up on the stand to pull the crank and a little blue coolant ran out, some I'm more hopeful...
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ross kowalski
Grand Master
Username: cdfpw

Post Number: 339
Registered: 11-2015
Posted on Sunday, 02 April, 2017 - 10:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Ben,

I gotta ask. Wouldn't it be easier to just source a running core?

That way you toss the working lump in the RR drive it around and rebuild a nice one at your leisure. I have done this and often find that the engine to get built correctly ends up sold before being rebuilt.
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Ben Curtis
Experienced User
Username: burgundyben

Post Number: 44
Registered: 12-2015
Posted on Monday, 03 April, 2017 - 05:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Ross - fair question, that's where I started out.

Engine 2 was supposed to be a good running core, I planned to drop the sump and wash it out, pull the heads, lap in the valves, replace valve seals, fresh head gaskets and fit it. That of course all when wrong when the A head got stuck. Had I fitted it, motoring utopia would have been short lived, the lefthand thread castellated nut on the crank holding the cam and oil pump gears was loose...woodruff keys nearly sheared, oil pump drive gear close to failure.

Engine 3 - By this time I had decided (from reading this forum among other sources) that pulling the liners while this far apart was a good idea. I'm only doing this once. This block had major internal corrosion, even if it hadn't cracked it would not have run well for long before failing, plus the sludge in the sump was incredible (very much more than any other one of the dozen or so car engines I've rebuilt). It wasn't well.

I think, in light my experience, regardless of what sellers say about 60k miles engines, there's no such thing as a good core.
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ross kowalski
Grand Master
Username: cdfpw

Post Number: 348
Registered: 11-2015
Posted on Tuesday, 04 April, 2017 - 09:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Ben,

Not a good story there.

Are you going to try and pull the liners on the #2 engine?
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Ben Curtis
Experienced User
Username: burgundyben

Post Number: 45
Registered: 12-2015
Posted on Tuesday, 04 April, 2017 - 05:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Yes. When I inverted engine 2 to take out the crank a little dribble of coolant, clean blue coolant, ran out onto the floor, so I'm a little hopeful. Its happening this week.

My stupid gene is strong.
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Ben Curtis
Experienced User
Username: burgundyben

Post Number: 46
Registered: 12-2015
Posted on Wednesday, 05 April, 2017 - 03:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hot off the press - all 8 liners out ok. No block damage.

Phew!
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Jeff Young
Grand Master
Username: jeyjey

Post Number: 338
Registered: 10-2010
Posted on Wednesday, 05 April, 2017 - 03:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Sweet!
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 1164
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Wednesday, 05 April, 2017 - 04:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The sigh of relief from all corners of the globe must be a pleasure to behold by any martian watching.....

Well done Ben
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richard george yeaman
Grand Master
Username: richyrich

Post Number: 734
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Wednesday, 05 April, 2017 - 07:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Well done Ben the Lord loves a trier.

Richard.
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Ben Curtis
Experienced User
Username: burgundyben

Post Number: 50
Registered: 12-2015
Posted on Tuesday, 11 April, 2017 - 07:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Collected the block tonight, I have a few things to sort, sourcing parts, then can start re-assembly.
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ross kowalski
Grand Master
Username: cdfpw

Post Number: 353
Registered: 11-2015
Posted on Tuesday, 11 April, 2017 - 10:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Ben,

It's always a relief to be on the downhill run of this kind of thing.

Are you documenting the process? might be a real help for folks that never rebuilt an engine.
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Christian S. Hansen
Grand Master
Username: enquiring_mind

Post Number: 576
Registered: 4-2015
Posted on Tuesday, 11 April, 2017 - 10:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Ross...
I like your optimistic use of the term "downhill" as I had always thought that reassembly was the "uphill" battle, given that it is easier to take things apart than to get them all back together again! Your encouragement is right on, however!
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ross kowalski
Grand Master
Username: cdfpw

Post Number: 355
Registered: 11-2015
Posted on Tuesday, 11 April, 2017 - 10:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Christian,

Funny, I always look at the teardown as the worse part, dirty, full of unwelcome surprises, and going the wrong direction.

The build..., just resist the temptation to use borderline spec parts because new ones are expensive. Good parts properly installed makes the engine.
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Ben Curtis
Frequent User
Username: burgundyben

Post Number: 51
Registered: 12-2015
Posted on Tuesday, 11 April, 2017 - 05:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I may come to eat these words, but I think we are now past all the seized heads, broken bolts, cracked castings etc, fresh bearings, seals and gaskets and we should be good to go...ha hah ha ha....
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Ben Curtis
Frequent User
Username: burgundyben

Post Number: 56
Registered: 12-2015
Posted on Monday, 01 May, 2017 - 06:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Crank is in.

First two pistons are in..

I'll try and sort some photos, everyone loves photos!
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 1505
Registered: 4-2016
Posted on Monday, 01 May, 2017 - 07:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Im sure everyone here has everything crossed for you Ben.
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 1186
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Tuesday, 02 May, 2017 - 04:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

If I cross my balls any more I risk losing whatever fertility I have left...... lets have the photos Ben and good luck mate....
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Ben Curtis
Frequent User
Username: burgundyben

Post Number: 57
Registered: 12-2015
Posted on Tuesday, 02 May, 2017 - 05:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

All pistons are in, feels fine.

I have 2 cams, one is knackered on the brake pump lobes, the other on the valve lobes, the later one isn't too bad, I think it'll re-grind, will send it off this week.

Heads, talk to me about heads. I can only see one difference. See photo, next to the blue plastic bottle top is a threaded hole, seems blind, its only on one head.

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u4/burgundyben/20170501_185916_zpsehzfvg51.jpg

Which head is which?
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Ben Curtis
Frequent User
Username: burgundyben

Post Number: 58
Registered: 12-2015
Posted on Tuesday, 02 May, 2017 - 05:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 1307
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Tuesday, 02 May, 2017 - 05:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

A quick look on my Shadow 2 as far as I can see its the off/side RHD.
With a temp sensor fitted at a guess.
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Larry Kavanagh
Frequent User
Username: shadow_11

Post Number: 65
Registered: 5-2016
Posted on Tuesday, 02 May, 2017 - 09:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I think you're correct Patrick, on my Shadow 11 it's the temp warning sensor mount, the sensor that sets off a buzzer under the dash if the engine gets too hot. The buzzer operation can be tested by earthing the sensor connecting wire to the block with the ignition turned on.
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John Beech
Grand Master
Username: jbeech

Post Number: 369
Registered: 10-2016
Posted on Tuesday, 02 May, 2017 - 09:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

A custom cam isn't that expensive. And if you're lucky, commonly available roller lifters may be close enough you can turn them on a lathe to a suitable diameter. Suddenly more than 35 bhp/l becomes a possiblity . . . just kidding (sort of). Didn't RR do any racing? Yeehaw!
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Ben Curtis
Frequent User
Username: burgundyben

Post Number: 59
Registered: 12-2015
Posted on Tuesday, 02 May, 2017 - 05:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Examining the info on RRtechnical.info carefully.

A head, fifth page refers to standard cars 11882 to 26700 shows the sensor.

B head, sixth page refers to standard cars 9001 to 26700, does not show the tapping or the sensor.

Corroborating with the comments above, head with sensor will be on A bank.

Jolly well done to RROCA! Thanks!
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Ben Curtis
Frequent User
Username: burgundyben

Post Number: 60
Registered: 12-2015
Posted on Saturday, 06 May, 2017 - 06:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I sourced a good used cam, its in.

Oil pump has a new bronze drive gear, on the oil pumps from both engines the bronze gear was in really poor shape.

Pump is fitted, with new o rings on the metal pipe.

Oil pick up needed very thorough cleaning, so I took the strainer off to wash it. I then found the gasket is 20! rumaging around on the web found this solution http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262890059005

Hopefully in the next 2 or 3 days the engine should be largely buttoned up.

I'll do more pics.
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ross kowalski
Grand Master
Username: cdfpw

Post Number: 408
Registered: 11-2015
Posted on Saturday, 06 May, 2017 - 07:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Ben,

Glad to see someone's making progress. I did lower balls on the RR and it could have went smoother.
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Ben Curtis
Frequent User
Username: burgundyben

Post Number: 61
Registered: 12-2015
Posted on Sunday, 07 May, 2017 - 05:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I wonder if I have got the cam timing right....
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 1521
Registered: 4-2016
Posted on Sunday, 07 May, 2017 - 08:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

As they say Ben.
Measure twice cut once.

I'm sure you have, you are just poking us.
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Ben Curtis
Frequent User
Username: burgundyben

Post Number: 62
Registered: 12-2015
Posted on Sunday, 07 May, 2017 - 10:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Well.....I was told by the guy that did the liners, lobe 15 pointing upwards, then align cam sprocket timing marks and you're there. Its an 8 bolt pattern, not symmetrical, but only by a tiny bit and I think possible to get the 8 bolts in place with the timing wrong.

Statement in the manual is a bit vague about checking with a DTI.

If I new which way the thing ran clockwise or anticlockwise, I'd wind it over and watch the cams to check
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ross kowalski
Grand Master
Username: cdfpw

Post Number: 410
Registered: 11-2015
Posted on Monday, 08 May, 2017 - 09:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Ben,

You must have watched this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37vPjmpGP0Y

If not, it's pretty interesting.
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Ben Curtis
Frequent User
Username: burgundyben

Post Number: 63
Registered: 12-2015
Posted on Monday, 08 May, 2017 - 05:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Ross! You're a legend!

I rummaged at the back of the shed and found a knackered cam and gear, plus the 8 bolts, I tried to put it together wrong and you can't do it, he shows this in part 3 of the video series, while its impossible to see with the naked eye (or at least my middle age eyes), the pattern does prevent a biblical scale feck up.
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gordon le feuvre
Prolific User
Username: triumph

Post Number: 189
Registered: 7-2012
Posted on Monday, 08 May, 2017 - 09:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The blind hole is for high metal temp sensor, fitted from chassis no.? because factory discovered that if a heater hose split, coolant would be lost from rear of engine/heads even though header tank was still full and therefore low coolant light would not be illuminated as warning of problems, until too late.
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Ben Curtis
Frequent User
Username: burgundyben

Post Number: 64
Registered: 12-2015
Posted on Tuesday, 09 May, 2017 - 06:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thanks Gordon, useful to know.

New oil pump drive gear, in both engines this critical little critter was heavily worn,



Progress good, front covers on, cam in, tappets in, heads on. Need to do some torque wrench work tomorrow.

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ross kowalski
Grand Master
Username: cdfpw

Post Number: 416
Registered: 11-2015
Posted on Tuesday, 09 May, 2017 - 11:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Ben,

Thanks for sharing your progress, looks like you are making good progress.

I watched all the videos once I found them on youtube very entertaining and informative.

It was an utter joy to watch a consummate professional at work.
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Ben Curtis
Frequent User
Username: burgundyben

Post Number: 66
Registered: 12-2015
Posted on Monday, 15 May, 2017 - 08:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I was a little unhappy with how B4 piston went in, so decided to whip it out to check, when I went to do it I could not remember if it was A4 or B4 that went in last, so pulled both, A4 was fine, but B4 did seem a little tight, seemed to be the oil control ring, so I did a bit more cleaning in the groove and of the spring sections, then re-assembled, seems better.

Front covers are on.

Heads are on and torqued down.

Lifters are in.

Pushrods are in.

Rocker gear is in.

Needs to come off engine stand to fit rear seal, then back on engine stand and upside down for sump.
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Ben Curtis
Frequent User
Username: burgundyben

Post Number: 71
Registered: 12-2015
Posted on Wednesday, 24 May, 2017 - 05:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

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Ben Curtis
Frequent User
Username: burgundyben

Post Number: 72
Registered: 12-2015
Posted on Wednesday, 24 May, 2017 - 05:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

So...its buttoned up and ready to drop in.

I move house in 10 days, so a big push to get it in the car and scrap the dead motor.

It'll then have to wait a while as we're going into a rented place.
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Jeff Young
Grand Master
Username: jeyjey

Post Number: 350
Registered: 10-2010
Posted on Wednesday, 24 May, 2017 - 06:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Well done, Ben! You're on the home stretch now....

Cheers,
Jeff.
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Patrick Francis
Prolific User
Username: jackpot

Post Number: 132
Registered: 11-2016
Posted on Wednesday, 24 May, 2017 - 08:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hats off Ben. Wish I was sharing the experience!

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