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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 1282
Registered: 4-2016
Posted on Friday, 24 March, 2017 - 09:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Gents,

During judging at the RROC Federal Rally, my car was marked down due to 2 missing rubbers.

They apparently go in the bottom of the boot lid lip on the inside (cant see them unless you look under the lip of the boot lid)and would contact the bottom boot lip area near the 2 small chrome trims when the boot is closed that cover the 2 drain holes in the boot rubber as shown.



This is the part Flying Spares said is the correct part.



I have never seen this before on a Shadow, and I have always thought the single hole on each underside of the boot lid/lip was a drain hole?

Any ideas, or pics where this is fitted to a Shadow boot lip?
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Paul Yorke
Grand Master
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 1776
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Friday, 24 March, 2017 - 09:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

It goes out towards the corner.

If you slam the boot down hard it can connect there and chip the paint on the boot lip and pasture.

If you look at Shadows you're sure to see sign of damage on some.

I'd say about 1" goes up the vertical face. I'll try and get a pic.
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 1283
Registered: 4-2016
Posted on Friday, 24 March, 2017 - 10:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thanks Paul.

Appreciate that
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Robert Noel Reddington
Grand Master
Username: bob_uk

Post Number: 1347
Registered: 5-2015
Posted on Saturday, 25 March, 2017 - 01:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

lovely colour blue.
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 1174
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Saturday, 25 March, 2017 - 02:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Paul Patrick, Imo the holes in the boot lid are for water drainage and to let the internals of the lid breath.
If the fault is the boot movement when closed with the lower catch s fully set down then this is what I think is needed on the lid to sit on the slam plate.



when fitted the boot lid shuts with a nice coach built clonk without the rattle tinny sound.
Patrick, on the Shadow 1 etc did overiders have the plastic covers on the cars that were judged.
Not many cars still have them over here.
This pic shows the inner sealing strip then outer boot lid seal.
The overider plastic bung can also be seen.



This last pic is the slam plate this gives the lid the nice solid clonk with the boot lid buffer.

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Paul Yorke
Grand Master
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 1777
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Saturday, 25 March, 2017 - 05:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Patrick L, the last picture is of the boot seal drain cover.

Shadow owners, under that plate is a drain hole to allow water to run away from the seal.

If not cut out when the seal is fitted or is blocked with dirt the seal will stay wet for much longer than necessary and can break down or go all wavy.

If you have water pooling there or water dripping down when you open your boot you should explore these orifices.

It can also overflow into the boot.

Patrick R.

A couple of pics of the boot stop rubbers, not very apparent under the boot seal.

boot stop rubber


boot stop rubber 2
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Paul Yorke
Grand Master
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 1778
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Saturday, 25 March, 2017 - 06:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP



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John Beech
Prolific User
Username: jbeech

Post Number: 262
Registered: 10-2016
Posted on Saturday, 25 March, 2017 - 12:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Interesting thread because I believe Tootsie (SRX6816) would benefit from a new boot seal. Is Flying Spares my best source? Any clue regarding cost?
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Kelly Opfar
Prolific User
Username: kelly_opfar

Post Number: 164
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Saturday, 25 March, 2017 - 03:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Replacement Parts Inc. is a mere 8 hour drive away from you John. They're just west of Atlanta, Georgia. They're the factory supplier of weatherstrip and other items for Bentley heritage parts now.
Here is the Shadow trunk weatherstrip they carry at $72:
http://https://replacementpartsinc.com/trunk-weatherstrip-shadow-t-ub15696/
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 1177
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Saturday, 25 March, 2017 - 07:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

IMO the rubber strip is a waste of time!
Pic show it more clearly.



Years ago my Shadow one was recalled for a boot catch mod the boot [sloppy loose rattle] shut fitting was informed and new luggage lid seal with the short rubber strips fitted, this seemed to improve things but only for a short period of time.
Most Shadows I have checked have this loose boot fitting.
Maybe the Somerset Cider effects them.
The end result fit the made up buffers perfect.
The boot has no leaks with a good pressure wash proving how good the factory boot seals are with time.
Both my cars do not have holes through the rubber below the chrome slam plates.
IMO if you have water getting to the inner part of the lid seal you have problems!
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 1286
Registered: 4-2016
Posted on Sunday, 26 March, 2017 - 07:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Wow,
Now this is all rather interesting and now confusing.

The judge that pipped my car indicated that the rubber pushed in with a tail into the round holes.

So this rubber glues on, but exactly where?

Thanks for all the detailed images guys.
Patrick your image of the rubber in question is interesting.

Did you fit this, or was it already in place?

Yes,
My car has the triangular lubrication bungs/plugs for the over riders.

Squirting oil trough these holes to lubricate the over riders is sure an unusual thing that's for sure.
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Christian S. Hansen
Grand Master
Username: enquiring_mind

Post Number: 554
Registered: 4-2015
Posted on Sunday, 26 March, 2017 - 08:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Patrick R...
You're kidding? "Lubricate" overriders?? OMG! MORE deferred maintenance of which I was not even aware!!

They are not moving parts, nor do they interface with or touch any other components, as long as the rubber strips where they would otherwise contact the bumper are in place, so what gets lubricated?

.
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 1287
Registered: 4-2016
Posted on Sunday, 26 March, 2017 - 08:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Christian,

Apparently you are meant to remove the plug, and squirt oil into the overuder so it coats the inside surface in oil, from the top to the bottom so they don't rust out.

This is what I was told, not sure if it is correct though.
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Christian S. Hansen
Grand Master
Username: enquiring_mind

Post Number: 555
Registered: 4-2015
Posted on Sunday, 26 March, 2017 - 09:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

...and by that same reasoning, I suppose that you apply oil liberally, and then wipe off, all over the entire surface of the underside of the chrome bumpers?...to keep them from rusting out??
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 1288
Registered: 4-2016
Posted on Sunday, 26 March, 2017 - 11:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

No idea mate.

We may have to find the subject in a service manual to see what it does say.
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Christian S. Hansen
Grand Master
Username: enquiring_mind

Post Number: 557
Registered: 4-2015
Posted on Sunday, 26 March, 2017 - 02:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I was kidding. The idea is absurd! LOL!
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 1289
Registered: 4-2016
Posted on Sunday, 26 March, 2017 - 03:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

But I am now interested Christian.

I also feel it is a dumb idea to oil over riders, and ignore the bar.

It's now my mission
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 1180
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Tuesday, 28 March, 2017 - 06:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

"Did you fit this, or was it already in place?"

Patrick I made these foam type buffers with self adhesive backing.
They fit close to the boot drain breather hole and when the boot lid is closed they sit on the chrome slam bracket.
They release enough pressure to rid the loose fitting boot and give it a nice coach built clonk on closing.

As for the bumper bar and over riders they do rust from the inside out if salt and road dirt is collected and left unchecked.
A blast with old oil every year will keep them ok.
Bit of a dirty job but well worth it.

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Christian S. Hansen
Grand Master
Username: enquiring_mind

Post Number: 558
Registered: 4-2015
Posted on Tuesday, 28 March, 2017 - 06:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Holy Moses!!
If a particular climate can do THAT to overriders and the portion shown below, I shudder to think of the rest of the body components. I guess I am simply spoiled and incredulous from living in an essentially dry climate where rust is not even an issue and forgetful that other places are not the same.

.
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 1294
Registered: 4-2016
Posted on Tuesday, 28 March, 2017 - 07:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I'm with you Christian.

My car was very lucky indeed to be delivered in London in 72, then shipped to Australia in 75.

Some of the rusted bodies that are on the Flying Spares web site are simply stunning as to how bad they are.

Patrick,
That overrider is a shocker.
Thank you for clarifying the overrider lube issue.

I have ordered the rubbers from flying spares, along with 2 new bonnet stop rubbers (one broke during the judging of my car at the federal rally ) and of course pointed out to me.

I will report back when I fit them.
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 1345
Registered: 4-2016
Posted on Monday, 10 April, 2017 - 11:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Patrick,

I received my 2 "boot stop" rubbers today.

Can you please let me know where I am meant to put these on the boot lid, and where they mate up to the boot lip itself when closed.



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John Beech
Grand Master
Username: jbeech

Post Number: 305
Registered: 10-2016
Posted on Monday, 10 April, 2017 - 01:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hmmm, I'd like to know also because Tootsie is missing the rubber where the two drain holes are on the boot's lid as well. What perplexes me is the OP (Patrick Ryan) said the rubber covers the holes but that doesn't make sense to me since I thought the idea was to allow moisture to drain freely. What am I missing in all this? Does anyone have a photo of these things actually installed as per the factory? Especially because Patrick said the judge claimed these fit with a rubber tail yet the photo of the replacement rubber shows a flat back, e.g. no such tail. I'm confused. Moreover, I'm tired of the rattle from the deck lid's loose fit.
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 1346
Registered: 4-2016
Posted on Monday, 10 April, 2017 - 01:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Don't worry John,

I am confused as well.

This is literally a can of worms. Getting a lot of different things here.

Patrick L posted images above. These are the first time I have ever seen any rubber on the inside of the boot lid lip as such.

John,
I do know the small chrome trim in pic one of this thread I posted, covers a drain hole for the boot rubber.

Wether these, what I would call bump stops, meet up with this chrome trim I don't know.
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John Grieve
Frequent User
Username: john116

Post Number: 52
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Monday, 10 April, 2017 - 03:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Read the service manual here in relation to drain holes, additional sealing strips, etc.

http://rrtechnical.info/sy/tsd2476/20.pdf

Starting page 56 of the .pdf file.
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Christian S. Hansen
Grand Master
Username: enquiring_mind

Post Number: 571
Registered: 4-2015
Posted on Monday, 10 April, 2017 - 04:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Detailed as the instructions may be, the relevant illustrations S54 and S57 are less than stellar in terms of clarity. Photos posted previously on March 25 by Paul Yorke give more information in terms of the location of the sealing strips at the corners. I believe that the photos posted by Patrick Lockyer previous to Paul's and also on March 25 show different components...presumably a view of one of the buffer pads attached to the boot lid and the chrome piece attached to the boot rim upon which the pad contacts and rests when the lid is in the closed position, and thereby providing an interference contact fit such as to eliminate rattles and looseness. These are two separate and distinct issues, or do I err?
The details of the drain holes are still unclear although the cited section of the manual indicates that they were not incorporated on early cars and retrofitting them involves drilling the holes. Why they are then covered, and with what, remains a mystery to me and my own '68 MPW Coupe is in storage and currently not the "daily driver", otherwise I would simply take a look at it and try to understand.

.
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 1347
Registered: 4-2016
Posted on Tuesday, 11 April, 2017 - 07:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Christian,

Yes those workshop manual items and images are open to interpretation.

I learned that very early shadows had the boot seal on the boot lid, not the body, which I found interesting.

The mod, was to remove it from the boot lid & then fit it on the body.

I also believe that the 2 boot stop rubbers I have purchased do not go on the boot lid at all and are in fact the 2 thin strips that Patrick L photographed for us below.



After speaking again with flying spares, and consulting a Shadow parts manual I can not see that ANY rubber of any type was fitted under the boot lip at all.

2 things interest me though.

(1) Patrick L has fitted a rubber in exactly the place the rubber was described to me

(2) The chap who pointed this out to me as being missing at the concours is not replying to my emails. He asked me to contact him so he could tell me all about these missing rubbers.

Does anyone else have any input into rubbers, that are fitted to the underside of their boot lid similar in position to what Patrick L provided us an image of below, that are factory fitted originals?

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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 1227
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Tuesday, 11 April, 2017 - 09:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Patrick I have an early parts book but where it is I do not know.
I will keep searching.
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 1348
Registered: 4-2016
Posted on Tuesday, 11 April, 2017 - 09:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Pat,

No need to look mate, I found this.

What is interesting is that the items ALL relate to the boot/trunk lid only.
To me this would indicate that item number 43 (part number UB 16497) all fit to the trunk/boot lid itself, except item 46, which as we all know is bolted to the body.

Please see below.







This is proving to be quite interesting indeed.
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Christian S. Hansen
Grand Master
Username: enquiring_mind

Post Number: 574
Registered: 4-2015
Posted on Tuesday, 11 April, 2017 - 09:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

P.R.:
Yes, the two parts are certainly different, and while of similar shape (long rectangle with gentle taper at each end) the width as well as the apparent composition appear to be different as well as the installed location.
While I can visualize the need for the thicker piece attached to the botton edge of the boot lid, and its intended purpose, especially if it contacts the aforenoted chrome pad when the lid is closed, I cannot visualize the purpose of the thin strips that you purchased and as are attached to the rounded corners of the boot lip and under the other seal running around the perimeter of the lip, other than as an afterthought to close any gaps that may have existed and thereby to make a tighter seal of the lid and the rubber lip moulding at that corner location when the lid is closed.
The installation position is clearly shown in your first photo as well as in Figure S-54.

P.S. P.R.: You posted those photos while I was composing my post. Keep in mind that things changed over time, but now I am confused as well and given time, would be provoked to drive the 50 miles round trip to my storage warehouse simply to see how my early MPW is configured. In any event, the piece #46 appears to be "under" the chrome piece whereas in one of the earlier posted photos, it appears to be attached to the bottom of the boot lid and thus "over" the chrome piece when the lid is closed. ...and why the chrome piece "drain hole cover" covers the drain hole is counter-intuitive as would this not limit the ability of the hole to function as a drain?? Hmmm....
.
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 1349
Registered: 4-2016
Posted on Tuesday, 11 April, 2017 - 10:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Christian,

I've just emailed flying spares to see if p/n UB16497P is different to the part (item 43) mentioned UB16497
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Christian S. Hansen
Grand Master
Username: enquiring_mind

Post Number: 575
Registered: 4-2015
Posted on Tuesday, 11 April, 2017 - 10:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

P.R.:
Want more confusion? "Boot" versus "Trunk"? I had thought that the "people separated by a common language" gave us "trunk" as the American version of "boot", and with this in mind it is odd that parts #44 and #45 use the term "trunk"! The page photo is too small to see where those parts are located, but one is for "upper trunk door" and one for "lower trunk door". Can you post photo of those parts from the page? Do you suppose that "trunk door" is synonymous with "boot lid" or something else??? Hmmm, again...

.
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 1351
Registered: 4-2016
Posted on Tuesday, 11 April, 2017 - 11:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Gents,

I think we have an answer.

As mentioned in the link John G has provided, the rubbers that I was told were missing, are in fact for earlier models only where the boot/trunk sealing rubber was fitted to the boot/trunk lid and not the body.

The page clearly states that when converting the old boot/trunk lid rubber to the newer body fitted rubber:
"The two buffers on the luggage compartment lid will no longer be required."

Here are some images of a 67 boot/trunk lid I found.
Note, the lid mounted rubber and the 2 buffers.

What is interesting, is that this boot/trunk lid does not have the 2 reverse lights that I understood all earlier Shadows had.







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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 1680
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Tuesday, 11 April, 2017 - 12:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Well done Patrick. Great detective work. I've been following this thread with interest. The boot seal on my car needs replacing and now everything is clear as to what is required.

Geoff
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 1356
Registered: 4-2016
Posted on Tuesday, 11 April, 2017 - 12:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Mate,

I pestered a lot of people for this LOL

Even our club chief judge.

The only thing I can say, is just use a good solvent or prep to the body area you will be gluing the rubber to.

It is all in the preparation as to how good the end result will be.

Also, be sure to follow to the letter what the glue/adhesive manufacturers say about gluing.

I've seen some just fall off after just a few days mate.



Now,
Where is that judge that pipped my car????
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John Beech
Grand Master
Username: jbeech

Post Number: 309
Registered: 10-2016
Posted on Tuesday, 11 April, 2017 - 12:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Patrick, earlier today I dashed off an email to Dave at Flying Spares and referenced this thread and asking him to kindly review and try to help clear up the confusion. Of course by then he was sound asleep in bed so hopefully he reads it in the morning, takes an interest, and helps come up with appropriate part numbers. This because Tootsie has the two drain holes in the deck lid but it's patently obvious to me nothing has ever lived there (no witness marks whatsoever in the paint). Anyway, the largish rubber bumpers in the photo of the yellow deck lid look perfect. Thing is, it doesn't have the reverse lights, which Tootsie does have . . . so I am once again rather confused. Worse, the rattle due to the deck lid is driving me nuts! But covering up the drain holes would really drive me crazy.
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Christian S. Hansen
Grand Master
Username: enquiring_mind

Post Number: 578
Registered: 4-2015
Posted on Tuesday, 11 April, 2017 - 01:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Patrick R:
Don't want to be the fly in the ointment but contrary to clearing things up we have added additional nuances. Note that the two "buffers" (newly introduced word) shown in your photos are of a completely different shape than those in the photo provided by Patrick L and repeated in your posting of earlier today, so now there are two different "things" attached to the boot lid.

.
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Christian S. Hansen
Grand Master
Username: enquiring_mind

Post Number: 579
Registered: 4-2015
Posted on Tuesday, 11 April, 2017 - 01:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Patrick R.:
Let's go back to the very first post wherein you started this thread by saying that you were marked down for not having the two rubber pieces that go on the bottom of the boot LID lip. In your first photo it is not clear what you are pointing to but the area noted is clearly not the LID lip, but rather the boot RIM lip and appears to be the chrome plate presumably covering the drain holes. The second photo is the part recommended by FS but is clearly the thin and long rectangular piece that goes into the corners of the boot rim and under the seal at those areas as shown in both Fig S-54 and photos from Paul Yorke and Patrick L, so these are different items. Further it is now unclear why you were marked down for not having the buffers of whatever shape (we have found and photographed at least two) which were apparently only used on "early" Shadows, but, correct me if I err, yours is in the 12,000 range which is definately past the "early" chassis series, so would not have had the lid buffers anyway, so WHY were you marked down for not having something that did not exist by the time production got to your chassis??

.
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 1357
Registered: 4-2016
Posted on Tuesday, 11 April, 2017 - 01:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Fully understand that Christian,

I was thinking the same thing.

It does appear that any older car (crap, does this mean I need to look in the chassis specs for all mods made to these cars, to get a chassis break as to when they started fitting the new body mounted seal?) had them as long as the boot rubber is attached to the lid.

My thoughts are the judge had it wrong in the first place.
Based on my car nothing should be there.

But if you had an older car (like Johns) as long as the boot rubber is still attached to the boot lid, these rubbers need to be in place.
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 1358
Registered: 4-2016
Posted on Tuesday, 11 April, 2017 - 01:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

While searching the net regarding boot/trunk lid images I stumbled across this.

Looks good,
Not sure about that price though

https://www.jamjarjunkies.co.uk/product/rolls-royce-silver-shadow-desk/




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John Beech
Grand Master
Username: jbeech

Post Number: 313
Registered: 10-2016
Posted on Wednesday, 12 April, 2017 - 04:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Kind of puny size-wise as desks go, in my opinion.
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 1363
Registered: 4-2016
Posted on Wednesday, 12 April, 2017 - 08:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Agreed John,

Not a bad idea though. I love seeing new car related ideas that people come up with.

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