| Author | Message | ||
     Richard Greene Experienced User Username: benzjag Post Number: 38 Registered: 12-2012 |
While driving my 75 RHD Shadow this morning, I did not have any heat even though the upper and lower settings were on "hot". The coolant is full. The water tap (on the engine firewall) moves from cold to hot as it should. The hose to and from the tap are hot when "hot" is set . I am thinking the temperature flap actuator is not working. I have studied the workshop manual, but it does not show exactly where it is in the car. Does anyone know exactly the location? Again, this is a 75 RHD. Any other suggestions as why I don't have heat would be appreciated. Richard | ||
| gordon le feuvre Prolific User Username: triumph Post Number: 177 Registered: 7-2012 |
There are two actuators, the upper one located under bonnet(hood). Looking from n/s near hydraulic reservoir this is under a black curved cover on the firewall above main heater box, above distributor cap area. This cover is secured by 4 x crosshead screws. The closer actuator is for air volume, other is temp. The lower one is inside car, open fuse box, on side of heater above steering column, bit of a fiddle! Would not have expected them both to fail, does still point to lack of coolant flow? Easiest way to test is sit in car with ignition on, push both upper and lower buttons in and vertical. Choose one to first pull to each position, then once right out turn to each position. Actuators can be heard to "run", make sure it is quiet! | ||
| Jeff Young Grand Master Username: jeyjey Post Number: 317 Registered: 10-2010 |
Do the fans come on? If not, do they come on when you switch it to defrost? On the Shadow II at least, the fans won't come on until the water is up to temp (so it could be a failed water temp sensor) and the lower quantity flap is open (so that could be non-working). The lower quantity flap servo is the lower of the two mounted under the steering column. There's also a little microswitch there which is what controls the fans. Cheers, Jeff. | ||
| gordon le feuvre Prolific User Username: triumph Post Number: 179 Registered: 7-2012 |
Shadow 1 does not have sender that inhibits the acu system until coolant temp reaches 40c, only Shadow 11/Camargue with auto system and the blower is totally independent of other controls/switches | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 1139 Registered: 9-2004 |
Maybe this will help from my repairs in 2010. I believe that I posted my repair of the cause of heating prob on a shadow 1. This was due to a simple rubber bush failing and with the two way actuator flap jammed causing a bent rod. I will put a few pictures up.  Rubber bush failed.   Blower motor removed, see through opening with mirror  A horrid job from memory. | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 1140 Registered: 9-2004 |
This is a picture of the flap mounted in the bracket with the made up bush ready to replace the foam before refitting.  New foam fitted with flap refitted ready to fit the actuator.  | ||
| Richard Greene Experienced User Username: benzjag Post Number: 39 Registered: 12-2012 |
The volume of air coming from the vent is very strong with the fans working perfectly, but air is cold instead of being hot. I do not hear the actuator move when moving the switch from "cold" to "hot". Therefore, I am assuming the temperature flap actuator is not working for some reason. Two questions: 1. Is this the right assumption? 2. Any suggestions to removing the temp actuator? I haven't been able to get to the car, but it would appear to be really a tight fit if behind the fuse box! Thanks Gordon for the location. Patrick, your pics are great, but I need more insight of what is involved! Richard | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 1141 Registered: 9-2004 |
Richard I may have put some sort of write up on this forum but cannot find it. Would be 2010. From memory the flap is removed and refitted through the blower motor hole once removed. The real pain is lining the flap unit up inside the heater box to fit the two bolts from inside the car. | ||
| Richard Greene Experienced User Username: benzjag Post Number: 40 Registered: 12-2012 |
Patrick, I looked also for your write-up without joy! The workshop manual says the temperature actuator is attached to the body from the inside the car (under the steering wheel on a RHD Shadow). Are you saying the actual removal must be from the hole where the fan motor is attached in the engine compartment? Richard | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 1144 Registered: 9-2004 |
Richard, have found a few more pictures to help me refresh my memory. The posting of this may have been on another site [crap] that has since hit the dust. The way I decided to do the job through the heater motor hole from memory was because the column was in the way. This picture is inside the heater box showing the bracket without the flap. Pix taken with mirror.  This is of the flap with new foam fitted both sides.  This shows the inside of car with the position of column etc.  Hope this helps, once repaired the constant full flow of cold air turns to hot when selected. Tip, a good pencil magnet is a must. | ||
| Paul Yorke Grand Master Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 1765 Registered: 6-2006 |
Haven't read it all . . . But that looks like you were doing the recirc flap bushes in those photos. | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 1145 Registered: 9-2004 |
Paul have you repaired any and if so what way have you carried out this repair. | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 1146 Registered: 9-2004 |
Paul this is the lower temp flap bush that broke up and let the flap drop and jammed not allowing any heat just cold air. Have you carried out a repair?. | ||
| Paul Yorke Grand Master Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 1766 Registered: 6-2006 |
The photos are of the flap behind the blower motors. Recirculation flaps. They decide if the fans suck air through the scuttle filter or from inside the cabin. The mesh can be spotted by the outside goes off the passenger and drivers feet. Above accelerator pedal. If you take the blower motor off you can feel the brackets for the bushes. There is just enough room to bit new bushes and then put one flap spindle through one side. There is then just enough give in the brackets to push the spindle and the bracket apart to squeeze in the spindle into the other Bush. Not a nice job. I'll see if I have any photos of temperature flaps. Also, if you turn the fans off for a few mins then turn them on. Do you get any hot air for a few seconds? | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 1152 Registered: 9-2004 |
To clarify the picture with caption" This is of the flap with new foam fitted both sides." The flap Lower heater control flap bottom . The flap is shown with new foam this is both sides of the flap. The flap complete with mounting is slid in along and down to align the fixing holes with the bolts fed in from the inside of the car, by the steering column. Horrid bit. The mind thinks just a few cars that have this prob or are there many going around with low temps? | ||
| Paul Yorke Grand Master Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 1767 Registered: 6-2006 |
While driving my 75 RHD Shadow this morning, I did not have any heat even though the upper and lower settings were on "hot". The coolant is full. The water tap (on the engine firewall) moves from cold to hot as it should. The hose to and from the tap are hot when "hot" is set . I am thinking the temperature flap actuator is not working. I have studied the workshop manual, but it does not show exactly where it is in the car. Does anyone know exactly the location? Again, this is a 75 RHD. Any other suggestions as why I don't have heat would be appreciated. It's odd that both upper AND lower have failed. Of course one may not have been working for ages and now the other has stopped. Blocked (or air-locked ) matrix or tap? Run with fans off and then turn on and see if you get a burst of heat which then drops off quickly. Have you done anything behind the centre console? Plugs can fit on in the incorrect position. Check fuses and diodes etc. Take off the cover as Gordon suggested and check for movement. If it doesn't move, loosen the clamp bolt and move by hand and see what happens. Does it move fluidly and is heat then available inside? | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 1154 Registered: 9-2004 |
Tip, be carful not to upset the synchronisation of the flaps if the clamp is moved on the shaft actuator to a different position. | ||
| Martin Taylor Frequent User Username: martin_taylor Post Number: 66 Registered: 7-2013 |
It is unlikely that both upper and lower flaps are stuck in the cold position, it is more likely that the heater tap has failed and the coolant is not circulating, or you have low coolant and an air lock. | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 1155 Registered: 9-2004 |
I agree one heater control flap yes but not both. | ||
| Paul Yorke Grand Master Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 1769 Registered: 6-2006 |
But do take into consideration that one may not have been working for . . . years . . .. but gone unnoticed. | ||
| Richard Greene Experienced User Username: benzjag Post Number: 41 Registered: 12-2012 |
Paul, You jogged my memory in asking if I got any heat? I now remember I had a small amount of heat which would "come and go" but never got really hot. This is when I checked to see if antifreeze was low;it was on full. Richard | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 1157 Registered: 9-2004 |
IMO slight heat may come and go if the blower was not switched on. Through the ram effect of the very slow moving car slight heat may of been detected, with the car moving at speed then just mostly cold air with the failed heater flap. Bite the bullet, get the heater blower off get a good mirror and light and locate the flap or look behind the column bulkhead above the foot pedals. Lovely spring morning here.  | ||
| Paul Yorke Grand Master Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 1771 Registered: 6-2006 |
You jogged my memory in asking if I got any heat? I now remember I had a small amount of heat which would "come and go" but never got really hot. This is when I checked to see if antifreeze was low;it was on full. In that case . . .Certainly do the run engine up to temp and keep on fast idle with heater on full Hot but blowers off. After about 5 mins turn on blowers and see if you get heat which then dies off to cold quickly. Nice easy test. If still nothing check inside the cover by the coil. Unfortunately the heat blend flaps are buried in the dash so hard to get to. These ones I believe  (Picture is a shadow II but heater box is the same).  | ||
| gordon le feuvre Prolific User Username: triumph Post Number: 181 Registered: 7-2012 |
Please please- the recirc flaps (x 2) are NOT the lower temp flap. As Paul shows this is located across main heater box directly below centre console. Access is very difficult, for FLAP as well as actuator as it sits under heater matrix. If one had x-ray eyes, looking downwards through heater box from under bonnet in line with centre of car at 45 degrees, you would see lower temp flap actuated by the motor bolted to o/s of main heater box inside of lower steering column on RH drive car. The upper temp actuator situated under bonnet above distributor being the one closest to centre line of car, by removing cover with 4 x cross head bolts the rod can be disconnected from actuator (if this is not working) to simulate operation. Is there heat out of upper (screen)outlets? The access to upper system is far easier than lower temp/quantity. | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 1159 Registered: 9-2004 |
Coffee time! Now I'm confused, seven years ago is a long time for me but the heater box in the pic is different to my Shadow 1. | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 1164 Registered: 9-2004 |
Gordon this "by removing cover with 4 x cross head bolts the rod can be disconnected from actuator" is the part I'm confused with. What cover? what I found was the flap had dropped out the mounting on one side jamming the flap the rod on the actuator was bent. Last of the pictures shows the rod removed from the actuator and still attached to the flap. this is just above the throttle pedal by the column. | ||
| Paul Yorke Grand Master Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 1773 Registered: 6-2006 |
Patrick. You have confused your recirculation flaps with your temperature blend flaps. Recirc flaps are behind the blower motors and control whether the fans are sucking fresh air from the scuttles or drawing air from the cabin instead. The temperature blend flaps are in the heater box (unsurprisingly). Have a look on the workshop manual and it will all become clear. | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 1165 Registered: 9-2004 |
Peeing with rain so hunted for my old manuals Shadow one and two. IMO the shadow 1 1974/5 workshop manual is the one in play here not the Shadow 11 workshop manual. IMO the flap position is the same but the terminology and workings are different, here lies the my confusion. The Shadow 1 workshop manual does not call the item a RECIRCULATION flap as Paul has, it is called lower temperature flap. I note that in the workshop manual shadow 11 the system is a total change it is listed as a recirculation flap. But that is the flap! Shadow 11 manual Chapter C-c5-13. | ||
| gordon le feuvre Prolific User Username: triumph Post Number: 183 Registered: 7-2012 |
Patrick, sorry to bang on but there are some basics( in R-R eyes)you need to understand better. If you go into POST WAR TEC LIBRARY in RELATED SITES head for Shadow 1965-76. Look for section "C" Heating & Air Conditioning. In this section look for PAGE numbers, NOT Section numbers. Pages C4 through to C10. These list actuators/flaps as Paul and I describe. Then look further ignoring the Section 2 header for pages C41-C42. Hopefully, these will explain confusion with all flaps. In Crewe's wisdom, the info for upper AND lower quantity AND temperature is found in pages C4-C10. But because the recirc flaps(one at either end of under dash below each blower motor), only come into operation when full cold is desired the explanation/write up for these pages (C41-C42) is shown in the air conditioning part of section C, along with compressor etc. Hope this makes the system a bit clearer!! R-R manuals/parts cats. are a real nightmare to navigate, even though I have been using them since 1965, they are still difficult, you sometimes have to just sit and try and imagine exactly what they were trying to say AND just where in the manual they might have stuck it. I'm sure the thinking was along the same demarcation lines that the factory workers/union used. A guy in car repair at Crewe told me they would allow 4 ish hours under warranty for the dealers to change a GM400 trans, but in-house it was 10!! | ||
| Jeff Young Grand Master Username: jeyjey Post Number: 325 Registered: 10-2010 |
The SYII manuals were improved greatly by including a "Theory of Operation" at the beginning of each section, something I find sorely lacking in the SYI docs. Cheers, Jeff. | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 1167 Registered: 9-2004 |
Gordon Paul and all got it. Heck I thought the heating lay out finished on C15 as part 2 was about the air con or as written refrigeration. As Gordon said page C41-42 the one I missed. This shows the actuator to fit or remove. I can not see it showing how to remove and refit the flap with a collapsed mounting bush. IMO this accounted for the cold air that I had seven years ago! | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 1168 Registered: 9-2004 |
So this begs the question has any one carried out the jammed flap, bush replacement in the world of repairs. Is there as easier way to execute the operation. . |
