Post Number: 22
|Posted on Thursday, 08 September, 2016 - 01:08 pm: |
The motor for one of the rear windows on my 78 Shadow works fine but the chain does not move up or down (moving the glass). I can push by hand the glass up and/or down. Any pointers before getting into this new task? I suspecting the nylon gear is stripped???? Any repair possible? Also any guidance on removing the regulator/motor appreciated!
Post Number: 1397
|Posted on Thursday, 08 September, 2016 - 03:38 pm: |
I agree with your diagnosis. Another possibility is the nylon wheel has split into two parts. Best possible cause is the nylon wheel is slipping on it's spindle, which would be an easy repair.
Whichever is the case, you will have to remove the entire mechanism. The door card can be removed by popping the spring clips once you have removed all the door hardware. The armrest is removed by loosening the two nuts from below. Inner door handle and window lift switch by carefully prizing off the chrome finishers and undoing the setscrews below. Don't forget to disconnect the cigar lighter and courtesy light once you have pulled the door card partially away from the door.
Then pull off the vapor membrane. The workshop manual is quite good, so just follow the procedure. I found it best to remove the brake solenoid (red arrow) to allow more room to wangle the motor and mechanism out through the gap. When you have detached the window glass at the top of the winder mechanism, tape it up in the closed position and be very careful not to snag the winder mechanism against the glass as you pull it out.
It's a bit fiddly getting it out, but is doable. The red arrows in the pic below point to the bracket that attaches to the window glass support. Just remove the two bolts with the window lowered and then push the window up out of the way.
All this is from memory so apologies for any errors. My car is also the earlier SY1 so there may be differences, but I'm sure you get the general drift.
Post Number: 1632
|Posted on Thursday, 08 September, 2016 - 05:15 pm: |
The gear and sprocket are joined by a rubber bush. Almost certain this will have torn so they can now move semi independently.
Great post Geoff.
There should be two rubber grommets under the door Base on later cars. Bolts go in from below.
Top of mechanism is held by a rubber strap.
Omar M. Shams
Post Number: 787
|Posted on Friday, 09 September, 2016 - 12:20 am: |
I have to say Geoff - excellent post!!
Post Number: 23
|Posted on Friday, 09 September, 2016 - 01:32 am: |
I got the motor out. I did remove the brake solenoid which made it much easier like you suggested.
The motor runs perfectly but the gear will stop easily when putting a screwdriver between the "ears". The center shaft continues to turn when doing so.. I haven't gone further awaiting feedback. How do I open up where the shaft/gear is?
Post Number: 1399
|Posted on Friday, 09 September, 2016 - 02:39 am: |
Good news indeed. It looks like the nylon gearwheel has just come loose on the spindle.
The whole unit has to be dismantled to get to the gearwheel/cog part. It's just a case of undoing all the bolts and pulling the unit apart. I absolutely recommend taking plenty of pics so you will know how it goes back together again. This has saved me on numerous occasions.
My car is a 1974 SY1 model so it may be different to yours. Here are some pics to give an idea of what is involved:
The best approach is to pull off the motor first, then remove the gearbox cover. Although it is not absolutely necessary to remove the motor, it does help in cleaning and re-greasing.
To remove the motor, remove the large aluminum clip and then the two bolts. The motor can then be pulled out from the gearbox.
Pull off the plastic cover at the top of the chain channels and remove the two bolts. Note they are in slotted holes so the chain can be re-tensioned when re-assembled. You may want to scribe round the washers to mark their original positions.
This pic shows the dismantled unit with the gearbox cover and chain channels removed.
Fully dismantled, the gearwheel/cog assembly just pulls out.
This is a great time to replace all that 38 year old sticky goo with grease.
As a point of interest, I run my window winders without the brake solenoids. The early cars incorporated a clutch mechanism to prevent young children from damaging their fingers between the top of the glass and doorframe. The problem was that as the clutch became worn the windows would lower themselves of their own accord. This is why the brake solenoids were fitted - to prevent the glass slipping down. When the design was changed and the clutch discontinued, the brake solenoids were kept. The problem with them is as the car gets older they can start to offer resistance to the winder. This is one of the reasons for slow operation when closing the windows, as was the case on my car. I was concerned that removing them would mean the full weight of the window would be bearing down on the nylon gearwheel, causing eventual failure. However after a discussion on this forum the consensus appeared to be the solenoid brake would not offer any protection to the gearwheel, since it operated at the same time as the wheel stopped rotating. I have run without the solenoids for two years now without any problems. I'm not advocating you do the same, just pointing out the choice.
Post Number: 116
|Posted on Saturday, 10 September, 2016 - 11:26 am: |
What a great and helpful thread!
The pictures are excellent. All my windows are working right now, but when the gears die, I will be doing that service.
Thanks in advance.
Post Number: 27
|Posted on Wednesday, 14 September, 2016 - 12:35 pm: |
The problem was the gear was turning freely on the shaft or spindale. The nylon gear was fine.
Today, I had a machine shop drill a hole through the gear wheel and spindale. They then put in a self-tapping screw in which the head of the screw fitted flush with the spindle. They also flared the other end so it absolutely would not
After getting everything back in, the glass moved up/down very smoothly but very slowly. Thinking about Geoff's comments about the "window brake solenoid", I removed the solenoid completely. The glass now goes up/down extremely fast with no resistance whatsoever. I am now thinking I should remove the brake solenoids on the other windows! What a dramatic change! The window now is as fast as a new 2016!
Thanks again for everyone's help!
Now, to the next project which seems like a big one: getting the front seats to work!
Post Number: 9
|Posted on Saturday, 15 April, 2017 - 06:21 pm: |
Thanks for this excellent post Geoff. I've just used this to work on the drivers window on my Shadow 1. Same solution as with Richard's car, the plastic gear is spinning on the shaft. Cheers, Alex Wilson
Post Number: 1688
|Posted on Sunday, 16 April, 2017 - 03:09 am: |
Thanks for your kind comments.
Post Number: 1401
|Posted on Sunday, 16 April, 2017 - 07:59 am: |
Great work there Geoff.
Very well photographed and the descriptions are excellent.
I hope I may never need to use it, but if I do, it will make life so much easier.
You're an awesome contributor Geoff.