| Author | Message | ||
     Gabriël Viljoen Frequent User Username: gabriel Post Number: 24 Registered: 3-2004 |
Hi My 1971 Shadow is fitted with a ammeter instead of a temperature gauge. I would like to replace the ammeter with a temp gauge as it can get very hot here in South Africa, and I do not want the car to overheat. I have heard that some of the Shadow I's are fitted with ammeters and some with temp gauges. If mine does not have a temp gauge, does the coolant lamp have a dual purpose? Does it light up when the coolant level is low as well as when the engine is too hot? What other type of warning is there to warn me of an overheating engine - it does not make sense to me that they could have deleted the temp gauge and not have some other kind of warning system. The workshop manual says that the temp gauge was deleted and then replaced by a warning lamp on the facia. Mine does not have a temp gauge or a warning lamp (excempt for the coolant level). Where is the temperature sensor / transmitter located in cars fitted with a temp gauge? I would like to fit one as well, but cannot locate it on the diagrams in the workshop manual - it must te somewhere on the engine block. Kind regards Gabriel Viljoen | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 479 Registered: 4-2003 |
The temperature gauge was deleted in 1969 when the new safety dashboard was released. They were deleted because they always read too high, alarming the owners unnecessarily. The rationale was that there was plenty of protection. There is the fusible thermostat, the over temperature buzzer and the coolant lamp. The coolant lamp comes on with low coolant or over temperature. Provided the coolant is not low, it is almost impossible to cook these motors. However, low coolant cooks them very quickly. Later, the gauge was introduced again on the SSII. Like on my Turbo R, you are lucky to see the needly go past 1/4 in the normal zone. Mine stays there in -20C and +45C alike, regarless of speed or load. The Shadows were well known for high underbonnet temperatures. That's normal. The temperature sensor on the SSII is located in the thermostat housing. It MUST be placed in the motor side of the cooling circuit, and certainly not in the header tank. I would prefer a coolant temperature gauge to an ammeter anyday. Many have been converted. The diagram is of a SSII. Item 75 is the sender.  | ||
| John Aravanis Unregistered guest Posted From: 213.5.32.129 |
A few comments on the "never ending" issue of SSI temperature variations to put it mildly..... My 1970 (SRH8685) has a temperature gauge instead of an ammeter. I think I would rather have an ammeter. During the last (HOT) Greek summer,(and the car's first in such hot climate), the gauge would not register further than the start of the solid white line. Replaced the stuck open thermostat, coolant,sendind unit and flushed the system. Guess what..... the gauge promptly went up to the "H" mark, while the infrared reading on the thermostat housing never exceeded 90-92 degrees. Out with thermostat, and now the gauge would still go sky high although after driving for quite awhile. Removed the gauge and "calibrated" the coil(altering the field which moves the needle) by the two small screws behind it. Things got better, but on a few instances ( stop and go traffic, A/C on, 38 degrees ambient temperature) it would climb again together with a sense of forecoming disaster. You cannot drive a car with a temp. gauge reading maximum, even if it is not true. It's nerve wrecking. Now the needle stays at the start of the solid white line. But now it is winter and the car still runs without a thermostat. By the way Gabriel, the sendind unit is located on the left(port side)rear of the engine block. On my RHD Shadow you can only "get" to it from under the car. I don't know if ammeter equipped cars had the engine block hole for the sender blocked off, or did not have a hole at all. (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| John D Unregistered guest Posted From: 144.138.194.7 |
Thank you John. I endured the same agony with my 1970 (SRH8058) typically indicating too cool (near "first" white line etc) when I KNEW the engine wasnt, and conversely, sometimes pegging the hot scale even when I sensed it wasnt THAT hot!. I was told long ago by a reliable source, that the gauge/sender manufacturer eventually refused to continue the supply of such components which he knew were intentionally matched/calibrated to reflect a cool (or cooler) temperature than that being actually present. Perhaps with the awakening of "Consumer" legislation/rights etc.(in the late 60s) someone mentioned the word "Liability" in the context of an expensive, overheated and ruined engine. The "solution" was to delete it, circa 1969, as noted by R.T. As I would rather have a reliable temp. gauge than a ammeter, my suggestion is that you replace the entire elec. gauge/sender with a MECHANICAL (capilliary feed etc) unit which will, on average, record 180/190deg(F)with maybe 200/205 (Summer) if all is well with your engine and general cooling system.Plumb it at a point on the inlet manifold (LHS) where you will see a small alum.(triangular shaped) removable "blank off" plate. Remove said plate;fabricate exact duplicate from steel and affix. appropriate union to accept end probe of capilliary. Check depth/protrusion to avoid capill.probe "head" making contact with surrounding metal etc. You wont regret this modification and after a short time will become familiar with the "normal" orientation of the needle and as in light aircraft, wont need to feverishly scan the dial face every few seconds, whilst in a continuous state of nervousness. (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 204 Registered: 9-2004 |
John A. After the above recomended fitting! Do check the steel plate fitted to the alloy manifold every year or sooner and replace as soon as you see the chronic corrosion. | ||
| Phil Sproston Unregistered guest Posted From: 203.206.51.51 |
John The aluminium plate has a step to fit into the o'ring on the manifold. It's a lot easier to just drill this plate and fit the sender. The workshop manual lists the older motors with an 80 degrees thermostat not the currently supplied 88 degrees. This seems to make a difference to the gauge which can be an absolute pain. The header tanks have a steam valve rated at 10 psi which cannot be purchased now. This can be overcome by modifying the header tank and fitting a normal 15 psi radiator cap. This makes a big difference in hot conditions. I've just recently done this modification and will try to get some photos on t}he net later. | ||
| John Dare Prolific User Username: jgdare Post Number: 37 Registered: 12-2004 |
Worry not my friends for there is NO evidence of corrosion on or near my "steel" plate. I guess it must (or might) be an ALLOY steel plate (of some kind or another) as deployed with an appropriate gasket of course. With all this excitement Ive just remembered the SECRET, as featured but not yet realized (let alone duplicated!) within MY own personal conversion. And so it shall remain, especially given the far more important duties which I am presently attending to. | ||
| Miguel A. Garcia Experienced User Username: magarcia Post Number: 42 Registered: 3-2005 |
Please, any picture available of this work? I would like to fit a termic switch to start-stop an electric fan. Any idea where to fit capillar one? | ||
| Miguel A. Garcia Experienced User Username: magarcia Post Number: 45 Registered: 3-2005 |
About the temp of coolant, I finally decided to add some extra air flow for the situations when the car goes in high traffic at center town or collapsed higways, as spanish summer has started hot this year. Of course this would not be a too horthodox decision, but i did all the work without any modification in the hardware of the car, so it would easily undone with leaving no traces of the word done. SRH3430 (as any Shadow I, I think..) has in front the radiator between it and the grill enough space to locate 2 fans, also IT HAS YET 4 holes in the upper top and other 2 in the base down, where is possible to fix screwed the mountings needed. I got 2 news 31,5 CM diameter electric fans (the same kind of the used as standar for Air Conditioned instalations in cars that has not it from factory...). I fixed them with some hardware to the mentioned holes in front of the radiator, in the called blowing way and make conections with 2 relays (one per fan) and switch them by a small chromed switch hidden in the drivers side. Well, as i say, this is not as Crewe did things, but it works great, and mantains the temp needle in the center of the white area on sharp once swiched, when before it was touching the last in the right of the temp clock. Also, as i said, it will be uninstalled in 30 minutes with no trace of them before, as i did not any hole in SRH3430. just was neded to paint with black mate painture the user metal hardware used to fix the fans to the existing holes, so it would not been visible from the grill when seing from sides... I took this decision after has cleaned the radiator with rods, and washed hardly (with clear water as sayd in the workshop book) the full coolant circuit and has not noted any improvement in the cooling. Also tried a "snake-oil" product as "waterwetter" from "redline oils" company (this waterwetter matter could be used for a new thread just for it...hehe...Does anyone knows AGEPON, from AGFA Photo company? Agepon+destilled water+pink colour+some biocide=WatterWetter. Cost of this: not more than 0,75 Euros per litre. Cost of 1 litre of waterwetter: 60 Euros...) Well, letīs go back to the fans fitting... Just one inconvenient, not be caused by this new installation, i think that it has just done a hidden failure more evident: My battery DROPS in 2 hours using them.. I thing it could be a faulty adjusted regulator, or the generator brushes dirty, but this other story... I just post it here as has seen that other members has similar problems (John, in Greece..) Final cost of the work: 75 Euros each fan 5 Euros each relay 3 Euros 1 swich 5 metters of wire Total: 163 Euros and 2 hours of work About the dropping of the battery, any comment will be welcome!! | ||
| Miguel A. Garcia Prolific User Username: magarcia Post Number: 109 Registered: 3-2005 |
Hi again. About this affair about the overheating, last week that started the warm season in Spain, a friend came home with his Shadow II and he asked me to help him do unistall the thermostat. I told him that was not good to delete it, but he told me that he wanted to do because he was afraid to fried the engine. Aftyer discussing about it, he decided to unistall. After taking awy his thermostat, i saw that the security plumb holes where opened, what means that an importanmt overheat was happened yet to the engine. Well. after deleting it, the car was runnig cold most times. I thin this is not good for engine , its performance and its life too. Just for curiosity and for testing purposes, as i saw that the thermostat has 8 holes that once openes have warranties the same caudal of the full opened thermostat, i decided to make 4 drills i a replacement on that i have as spare. I thin that these 4 drills makes a constant flow of the 50% of the opened thermostat, and once fully opened, they will increase the flow trough the radiator, performing a cooler engine. After doing that i have to say that the car does not overheat under any cicunstance in heavy traffic, and just take a little more in getting warm than before. Would be this the remedy for overheating problems? Also, it ensures the absence of air in the circuit before thermostat openes fully. regards, Miguel | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 992 Registered: 4-2003 |
This is a very old subject. Please do search this site. You may glean that running without a thermostat is definitely not-on in any season. Slow warm-up and cool-running cause the most damage apart from severe overheating. It needs replacing every 2-5 years anyhow. If the fusible links have melted, either the thermostat has failed, has not been changed in ages, or the car has not been serviced properly or worse. Simply removing it is the last solution, although you may remove it to get you a few kilometres home very gently in an emergency. Analogy: would you take a shower in the Alps in Winter with the hot water turned off completely (no thermostat), or in summer with the cold turned off (failed thermostat) ? It is not in there for fun. If you wish to ruin a motor, drive around without its thermostat or with an old one in there. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 993 Registered: 4-2003 |
ps a colleague in Australia had unexpected mild overheating a few months ago in a similar Crewe car to yours in hotter weather than you are now experiencing. Despite the severe inconvenience, he immediately ordered the flatbed truck, and had the car shipped to a specialist to have a new thermostat fitted. Problem solved. He very wisely didn't risk driving the car with a faulty thermostat or with no thermostat. Forget extra fans or any cooling system modification. None of these cars have any cooling problems unless something is seriously wrong, whether in the Sahara or Iceland. |
