| Author | Message | ||
     Chris Miller Grand Master Username: cjm51213 Post Number: 391 Registered: 5-2013 |
Hi Folks, I'm replacing the rear springs. I notice one boot covering the shaft-differential joint needs to be replaced. How do I remove the half-shaft from the differential? Thanks for the help, Chris. | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 980 Registered: 5-2012 |
Hi Chris I'm interested in how you get on with this as I tried to remove the half shafts from my car and had to abort the attempt. It should be just a case of undoing the 6 nuts on the plate where the half shaft goes into the diff and pulling it out. When I tried, I just could not get the half shaft to budge. I didn't try too hard as I did not want to damage anything, so the lump hammer stayed in it's rack. At the time Benoit mentioned the half shafts on his car pulled out easily. Have you got this far yet? Geoff | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 981 Registered: 5-2012 |
Chris As I recall, I removed the 6 nuts that secure the bearing housing to the diff unit. It is the bearing housing I could not remove. I gave it a lot of light taps with a hammer and drift and scribed around the outer edges of the joint, but I could not break the seal. I didn't want to damage the machined surfaces by trying to drive a chisel between them, so gave up the attempt. I think if I could have released the housing I would have been able to pull the half shaft out. One suggested solution was to use heat, which would have probably freed the housing, but I was a bit paranoid about this, given the proximity of the fuel tank. Since it was not imperative I remove the half shaft, as I was just investigating a vibration from the rear of the car under acceleration, I decided to leave it for another day. As I mentioned earlier, I will be interested to hear how you get on. Geoff | ||
| richard george yeaman Grand Master Username: richyrich Post Number: 364 Registered: 4-2012 |
Hi Chris and Geoff this topic is well covered somewhere in these pages I myself have done this job several times those six nuts have nothing to do with changing the rubber boot. undo the hardy spicer at the end of the half/drive shaft undo the large clamp at the trunnion remove the halfshaft making sure not to drop the bearings on the floor it helps if you keep the whole trunnion horizontal when you get it out remove the bearings to a safe place as it is easy to lose the roller pins clean everything. Place your new boot in boiling water for 5 minutes then with the aid of some rubber lube and a large flat screw driver lever the small end of the rubber boot over end of the shaft grease the bearings with new grease and reassemble hope this helps. Richard. | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 982 Registered: 5-2012 |
Richard Many thanks for this info. I was following the workshop manual method. This is much better. I just didn't realize at the time it could be dismantled at the trunnion. Geoff | ||
| Chris Miller Grand Master Username: cjm51213 Post Number: 392 Registered: 5-2013 |
Hi Folks, Damn. I almost got away cleanly. I removed the half-shaft, didn't lose any needle bearings, created a speculum with a couple of screwdrivers and didn't rip the rubber boot as I installed it. Things were looking up. It looked like maybe I was even going to be able to drive to the party this afternoon. No such luck. Apparently both springs were weak, so a spring replacement was exactly the right answer, but the list was from the passenger side ride leveling ram being extended... So, now I'm onto "ride-leveling" and all that that involves. I know I can read the manual to learn how to remove the ride leveling rams, but if anybody has any tips, tricks or hints, this would be a really good time to tell me. Thanks for the help, Chris. Note to Geoff: The half-shaft simply draws out. It is held in place by the force of the hub. Disconnect the universal joint, twist so the wide part is horizontal and tug gently. I recommend putting a tray underneath in case things go awry so you will catch any tiny, but critically important parts, although the likelihood is that they will fall into the rubber boot. | ||
| Robert Noel Reddington Grand Master Username: bob_uk Post Number: 594 Registered: 5-2015 |
Chris. The rams are very difficult to remove. The only thing to go wrong with the rams is they leak. If there is no brake fluid running down the shock damper then the ram is ok. Once brake fluid at high pressure enters the ram it will push the top of the spring down. The easiest way to check the ride height is to open the bleed nipple if fluid flows then the ram must work. To test the pressure screw pressure gauge into the bleed nipple hole. | ||
| richard george yeaman Grand Master Username: richyrich Post Number: 365 Registered: 4-2012 |
Hi Chris the ride levelling rams are designed to keep the car level when there is a heavy weight in the rear to level the standing height there are shims that are fitted to the Isolators maybe some previous owner had set the ride height by adjusting the rams you should check this out first. With new springs fitted there should be very little difference in the two sides these shims will sort it out. Richard. | ||
| Chris Miller Grand Master Username: cjm51213 Post Number: 393 Registered: 5-2013 |
Hi Bob, I think I probably need further experiments for diagnosis to confirm, but my initial assessment is that the passenger rear ram is extended and stuck. I suspect stuck because I thought I depressurized the system and opened the bleed valves for both sides when I first started to diagnose my list to port, meaning both sides should have retracted under the weight of the car. Based on a substantial discrepancy in side-to-side ride height, I concluded that I had at least one worn spring. Now, I'm not so sure that I really did this, so I need to perform this test at a minimum before I go tearing out structural pieces. If I confirm the the ram is stuck in the extended position, then what? Chris. | ||
| Chris Miller Grand Master Username: cjm51213 Post Number: 394 Registered: 5-2013 |
Hi Richard, I replaced the rear springs this weekend, because I had a substantial list to port with the ride leveling system depressurized and residual ram pressure released through the bleed valves. As I was fitting the new springs, I could see the passenger side piston, where the driver side presented a cylindrical chamber for the head of the spring, with no such piston visible. So, I'm certain that I am dealing with ride leveling as a cause. I may have just replaced my springs unnecessarily. It was not a difficult job, but not doing it would have been even easier... Chris. | ||
| richard george yeaman Grand Master Username: richyrich Post Number: 366 Registered: 4-2012 |
Chris it seems like one of the spring isolators is missing. Richard. | ||
| Chris Miller Grand Master Username: cjm51213 Post Number: 395 Registered: 5-2013 |
Hi Richard, Possibly... I think the spring isolator is a male cap that fits in the top of the spring, has a stack of "washers" of similar diameter to the spring and has a leather/cloth/rubber washer, presumably for sound isolation. It is female to the visible component of the ride leveling ram. Your diagnosis is that the thing I see on the passenger side is the isolator, and there should have been an equivalent on the driver side? Maybe... If the "isolator" is the core for the stack of calibration washers, then I have two of them. They were quite firmly attached to the original springs and it took some persuading for them to "voluntarily" re-deploy in the new springs. I suspect that the passenger-side ride leveling ram is stuck because the driver-side spring was installable, but just barely, so if there is a missing isolator on the driver side, the erstwhile saggier side, installing that isolator would make the springs really difficult to install, and it is this projected difficulty that I see on the passenger side and has alerted me to make the observation that the ride leveling ram might be out of compliance with the project at hand. Thanks for the help, Chris. | ||
| richard george yeaman Grand Master Username: richyrich Post Number: 367 Registered: 4-2012 |
Hi Chris as bob said earlier in the thread these rams are a bitch to remove I took one out because it was leaking and replaced the seals it came out without too much trouble but there have been people who have resorted to violence and in some cases used an angle, I jest not!!! anyway good luck. | ||
| Robert Noel Reddington Grand Master Username: bob_uk Post Number: 596 Registered: 5-2015 |
If the ram is extended spray brake fluid at the exposed bit of the ram. Using a bit of screen wash tube and medical syringe. This is a help stop tearing seals and a leak after. Fully open ram bleed nipple. With 4 wheels on the ground. Load boot and rear seat with drums full of water. 200 litres weighs 200 kg or 440 lbs. If ram doesnt unstick then leave for a few hours with fingers crossed. If the ram leaks after then it will need new seals and a ram polish. Note use red rubber grease on seals and ram. Also note that your 1966 car left Crewe with a 3 port ram and fine ram to top spring cup threads. Later cars have 2 ports and coarse threads. The 3rd port is a leak off port and is usually blanked off by RR work shops. The threads can seize and people have ended up cutting the ram with an angle grinder after 6ft scaffold poles and busted knuckles. If the ram is extended then getting at the ram C spanner slots maybe impossible because of the rear parcel shelf above. The rubber and canvas spring isolators can be replaced with a towing rubber assistors which normally fit between the coils. Grayston make these GE 14 is just right it is about 1 and 1/4" and a bit deep and about 6" in diameter with a split. The top and bottom have spring grooves. They come in pairs. Cut down middle and you have 4 one for each end both springs. Note that the fast solenoid should be in fast mode when bleeding the rams. Controlled by fuse 11. Green yellow wire is the feed to fast solenoid and radio suppression capacitor. Black is earth. The rear crossmember also has an earth to the body. | ||
| Chris Miller Grand Master Username: cjm51213 Post Number: 396 Registered: 5-2013 |
Hi Folks, I've just returned from a trip to New Hampshire and I'm about to resume my rear-springs project. I have no new observations on my starboard ride-leveling ram, but maybe in the next few days I'll have spent more time on it. In the meantime, I want to check the lubrication of "The final drive" unit, or what I know as the differential. I assume that I fill through the rear-facing plug. That's going to be challenging, since there's not much headroom there for a funnel. I think I will need a trough... What do I use? How much, meaning how do I measure this? Thanks for the help, Chris. | ||
| richard george yeaman Grand Master Username: richyrich Post Number: 379 Registered: 4-2012 |
Hi Chris the oil comes in bottles that have tubes fitted you squeeze the contents into the diff until the oil runs out and then replace the bung use 80/90 gear oil. | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 992 Registered: 5-2012 |
Hi Chris I used a gear lube hand pump. Cost just a few bucks from Autozone. Geoff | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 1715 Registered: 6-2009 |
Chris, I simply used the bottle the EP gear oil comes in. Most I see on the shelf have a little clip-off nozzle not unlike a condiment bottle. It's easy to aim that in to the final drive and just squeeze. If you nip enough off to give yourself a reasonably large opening on the nozzle it doesn't take that long, either. This bears repeating for posterity: Be certain that you can remove the refill plug that faces the rear of the car before you remove the drain plug on the bottom. The real challenge as far as refilling is the Detroit/trunnion joints. They have to be facing upward when doing the job and that's a tight space. My go-to tool for that job is a hair dye bottle which is close to the perfect size for the space and has sufficient fluid volume as well. Brian | ||
| Chris Miller Grand Master Username: cjm51213 Post Number: 397 Registered: 5-2013 |
Hi Folks, > ...squeeze the contents into the diff until the oil runs out From which I conclude that I need to have 1 quart. Thanks. I wasn't sure if I needed more than one. > I used a gear lube hand pump. I went really old school. I got a turkey baster! Ha! Chris. | ||
| Chris Miller Grand Master Username: cjm51213 Post Number: 398 Registered: 5-2013 |
Hi Brian, > They have to be facing upward I'm not sure which way is "up". Ha! Geeze... Is "up" when the trunnion nipples are horizontal or vertical? And if I'm putting a quart in the differential, how much am I putting in each trunnion boot? Do I need to release the boot or is there a fill port somewhere that I haven't yet found? Thanks for the help, Chris? | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 993 Registered: 5-2012 |
Hi Chris Check out Tee-one topics, Vol44, page 662 http://rrtechnical.info/TeeOne/TO44.pdf The figure for each trunnion boot is 150 ml Geoff | ||
| Chris Browne Prolific User Username: chrisb Post Number: 230 Registered: 2-2010 |
Chris, The filler plugs should face forward horizontally so once you have filled one so the oil just starts to seep out, replace the plug and turn the half shaft so the opposite filler plug is horizontal and faces forward and repeat. Kind regards, Chris | ||
| Robert Noel Reddington Grand Master Username: bob_uk Post Number: 638 Registered: 5-2015 |
The inner joints should be half full. So turn shaft until 1 o'clock position and fill up with squeezy gear oil bottle. Then turn to 3 o'clock position to drain off surplus oil. Thats way I do it. | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 1716 Registered: 6-2009 |
Apparently, like everything else, each has his or her own technique for doing certain things. When I fill the trunnion/Detroit joints I have the fill port facing up (and I don't know where in the world "up" doesn't mean "toward the ceiling/sky, or as close to that as you can get"). I fill up my hair dye bottle and generally get a full single in, but that depends on how recently I last did the job. The trunnions slowly leak into the differential on most of these cars and I've known of more than one person to have a gusher on the final drive/differential when they pulled the filling plug when that particular job has not been done in a very long time but the previous custodian actually did routinely top off the trunnion/Detroit joints. I never drain any oil from the trunnion/Detroit joints, but that's just me. Brian | ||
| Chris Miller Grand Master Username: cjm51213 Post Number: 399 Registered: 5-2013 |
Hi Folks, How do I disconnect the rear shocks at the top? The bottom connection is obvious. Thanks for the help, Chris. | ||
| richard george yeaman Grand Master Username: richyrich Post Number: 384 Registered: 4-2012 |
Hi Chris this is one you will have to follow the workshop manual or tee one topics I have done this job successfully in the past but there has been a lot of failed attempts by others I am sure they will speak for themselves as to the difficulties they experienced. Richard. | ||
| Robert Noel Reddington Grand Master Username: bob_uk Post Number: 649 Registered: 5-2015 |
To undo the top shock mounting the ram needs to be unscrewed from the coil pot. The top mounting is under the ram where the ram screws from tbe coil pot. The manual shows the assembly in detail. The only bug bear is unscrewing that ram. Its a shame that the ram is fitted from the top of the turret rather than from underneath. Then the whole assembly ram cup spring and shock damper could be taken off and on the bench getting the ram undone would be easy. The problem is two fold. Limited access and a spring that moves around. Go to tee one topics because Bill a Coburn had done this job many times and explains the procedure well. There is a new product from locktite called freeze spray which works the same as heating which causes the metal to expand at different rates. This does the opposite and shrinks metal at different rates. Safer than heat. |
