| Author | Message | ||
     Brad Clinch Unregistered guest Posted From: 144.135.71.40 |
Hi all, I haven’t accessed this forum for some time due to not having internet connection at home anymore, and thank all involved for much valued previous assistance and advice given. As some will know, I drive a 1979 SS II (from memory I think the S/N is SRH38081), and which currently has fitted Toyo 800 Plus 225/75x15 white-walls on the standard 15 x 6" rims. About 2 years ago I replaced the Avon 235/70x15 WSW Turbosteels with the Toyo, which was a poor decision in my opinion. They were reported to be a good tyre engineered for low road noise with a wide tread pattern. I found they had a relatively low road noise, but otherwise have been very disappointed in them. They looked much narrower than the Avon (though supposedly only 10 mm), roll a lot (which has caused the shoulders to wear far greater than the tread at the centre of the tyres… running at 38 PSI) and are incapable of safely / adequately slowing the vehicle... particularly in wet weather. Replacement of the tyres is again warranted, and I won't be buying 225/75s again! I've recently discovered that Cooper 235/70x15 WSWs are no longer available... and have been replaced by a tyre: Mastercraft Sensys 01, which is also available in 235/70R15 WSW. I am considering these, though no-one seems to have any in stock yet and I have never experienced Coopers (tyres that is!). An alternative I've been considering is to put my genuine rims away and have fitted larger rims and go for a lower profile. (I don't particularly want to modify my original rims), My experience with the 225/75x15 (being a higher profile and slightly narrower tyre) showed how much more roll such a tyre suffers on mild cornering and hence wear. I considered that a tyre of say 235/60x17, or 245/50x18 may give the correct range in overall diameter, providing of course they meet the 101 load index rating. Falken make a tyre: S/TZ01 255/50R17, which has a 101H rating but 690mm O/D, which is slightly short of the 696mm minimum permissible (being 15 mm less than the 711 mm diameter 235/70x15). Finding a suitable tyre though is not such a problem, but finding a rim is appearing to be… If I go for this type of option, I think 17" diameter by 7 to 7.5" wide may be best... with an off-set to maintain the inner edge of the rim in the same relative position. This appears that it would give sufficient guard clearance. Though by increasing the rim diameter from 15" to 17" would give greater clearance at the tie-rod ends, which should allow for some of the increased width inwards, thus making an 8" width rim viable (say 0.5” in, and 1.5” out, which would increase the track by 1” coincidentally? also the maximum permissible). I realise there would be many people that may consider this an appalling thing to do to my lovely car. But the original wheels I would still keep, and in the meantime I would have a safer and better handling vehicle (I can’t avoid driving tightly winding roads where I live) with less tyre roll, which also probably equates to less tyre wear. Plus the replacement good quality tyres would be available at a relatively good price (though not WSW). Would anyone (not too disturbed by this suggestion) be able to advise me on where to look for such rims? Either by purchase or having made (whilst still remaining road legal) Or does anyone have a set of standard rims available for sale that could be sacrificed for the use of the centres? Any positive advice (including for or against this idea) would be greatly appreciated. Thanking all in advance. Kind regards, Brad Brad - before you start reconstructive surgery; what tyre pressures are you using on your car? Considerable handling benefits are achieved on Shadows by using much higher pressures than recommended by the factory. Also be very aware of clearance problems with wide tyres especially on full compression of the suspension. David Gore (Message edited by david_gore on November 24, 2004) (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Brad Clinch Unregistered guest Posted From: 144.135.71.40 |
Thank you for posting my enquiry and for taking an interest in my ‘project’. I generally run my tyre pressures at 38 PSI, but have also run them at 40 PSI. I have also had a look under the guards to ascertain the limiting factors to tyre width, yet have not in practice determined: 1/ clearance on full compression of the suspension as suggested, nor 2/ clearance through steering lock to lock at various degrees of compression of the suspension… though I have been aware of both potential obstacles. I have heard of a blue Rolls that has been seen around the top end of the Gold Coast in QLD Australia, which has very wide wheels and reportedly, massively flared guards. This is certainly something that will not be happening to my vehicle, as I intend to make no modifications to the bodywork. Where I live there is an abundance of tight winding roads, which have some influence on my desire to reduce the effects. Plus I feel it would dress the car up a bit. Thank you. Brad Hi Brad, 35/38psi seems to be the optimum pressure for best handling without causing over-inflation premature tread wear - this comes at a cost of more road noise and harder ride however I for one prefer better handling to "boulevarde comfort". Regards david (Message edited by david_gore on November 25, 2004) (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| William H. Trovinger II Grand Master Username: bill_trovinger Post Number: 169 Registered: 8-2003 |
Brad; I will preface my comments with the facts that one I do not know where in the world you are. Secondly that I live in the Frozen Tundra of North America (Milwaukee, Wisconsin) and finally, unlike David I do enjoy a boulevard ride for my Shadow, no offense David.  So I run 225/75 15 at 32 to 35 psi WSW tyres on my Shadow. Here in the Northern wilderness the lower the profile of the tyre the shorter the life of both the tyre and wheel, as freezing helps create many potholes. Anyways, I do not know if you can import tyres from the states but in black walls there are many 235/70 15’s available and due to the abundance of SUV’s weight rating is not a problem. However, as stated they come in black walls or White letters (I think not on the latter). My personal favorites are not US made but are Nokian tyres and should be available all over the world I do not know if they are yet making a tyre in the size you want at least not for US market yet. On the other hand if you want WSW tyres (in a 235/70 15) at least from the States you can get them and a few are 1) Dunlop D65 T Touring Elite with a 102T rating at about U$66 per tyre, 2) Kumho Touring A/S 795 with a 102S rating at about U$ 44 per tyre, 3) Michelin XW4 with a 102S rating at about U$ 117 per tyre, 4) Yokohama Avid Touring with a 102S rating at about U$58 a tyre, 5) Yokohama Aegis LS4 with a 102S rating and about U$57 each. To help you the 102 rating means a load of 1874 pounds (or 850 Kilos) and the “S” is speed rating of 112 mph (or 180 km/h) and “T” is speed rating of 118 mph (190 km/h). I have NO feeling on any of these tyres mentioned and will let others make the comments there. I only included them to help you and hopefully not confuse things more.  Best regards, Bill | ||
| Larry Halpert Prolific User Username: larry_halpert Post Number: 32 Registered: 9-2003 |
I got the Yokohama Aegis LS-4 that cost me $60US a tire, including balancing 2 years ago. They first did on-the-car balancing twice with 2 different new machines, then balanced once off the car with a newly calibrated machine. They held the tires overnight to let the initial balancing set it, and then balanced them on-the-car with an additional 2 new machines. It rides pretty smooth, and you were right about the prices for the tires. I don't plan to find a method to get away with driving over 112 mph anywhere near here in NY.  | ||
| Brad Clinch Unregistered guest Posted From: 144.135.71.40 |
Thank you David and Bill. Firstly I'll address Bill's comments: Hi Bill; Thank you for the information you have supplied. It is very welcomed as it gives me a much greater knowledge of the availability of 235/70x15 WSWs. Should I not find an economical and satisfactory solution to my preference (different rims and tyre sizes) I shall enquire about the tyres you have mentioned. Also, I do understand the load index and speed rating system, but appreciate your thoroughness. The 225/75x15 WSW Toyos currently fitted are rated at 102S, and the original Avon 235/70x15 WSW Turbosteels, 101V (being 825kgs / 240kph) Hi David; Regarding the tyre pressures... I generally run them at 38 PSI and the wear is least at the centre of the tyres, where it would normally be greater (due to the greater inflation). Though this wear is mostly on the front tyres, the rear also suffer similarly, which I believe is caused mostly by greater tyre distortion due to the tyres being of a higher profile and narrower than the 235/70. I am aware that a 225/75 on the same width rim (in place of a 235/70) would need to be run at a slightly higher pressure to exert the same pressure across the tread (relative to the road surface) due to the tyre being slightly narrower relative to the rim… or more easily comprehended, the rim is wider relative to the tyre. And as stated, I run them usually at 38 PSI, and have to 40 PSI. My suggestion of increasing the width of the rim (from 6” to say 7”) for a 235 tyre would likewise also require an increase in pressure to maintain the same pressure across the tread (again the rim would be wider relative to the tyre). Increasing the diameter of rim (from 15” to say 17”) would allow for a lower profile of tyre, reducing tyre distortion, tyre wear (I would think) and improved handling. I feel that a larger diameter and wider rim, if using lower profile 235s would not necessarily increase the wheel width or diameter, but would give many other benefits including allowing for running higher pressures. As stated in my initial enquiry, a 17” (or 18”) rim may give more clearance around the tie-rod ends and thus allow some of the increase in rim width inwards, which on a 7” rim may then not alter the track or consume any of the clearance under the guards. As ‘most’ vehicles have more clearance than is actually necessary, and it appears the RR is not difference in this aspect, then there may be avenue for some increase outwards. I calculate that a 7.5" wide x 17" diameter rim with an off-set to make the edges of the rim 0.5” in and 1.0” out from standard, would increase the track by 0.5”, and estimate that with 235 tyres fitted to them the outer side of the tyre would move outward between 0.5” and 1.0” depending on where the measurement was taken (whether at the tread or rim). As any clearance issue upon compression of the suspension I believe would relate to the outer side of the tread down part of the tyre side wall (where there may be a risk of the tyre meeting the guard at a tangent), I think a figure of about 0.75” is approximately the amount of clearance that would be consumed. Further to this, a 255 on the same rim (being 20mm wider than a 235) should add another 10mm, which equates to the outer side of the tyre moving outward nearly 1.0” from standard, being the combination of half the increase of track (0.5”) and half the increase in tyre width (10mm). Whether there is sufficient clearance to allow for either of these alternatives, I welcome further comments, as I also do if I have omitted any other consideration or made error in my calculations or estimations. Thank you. Kind regards, Brad Hi Brad, If my memory is correct, there was clearance problems when Crewe fitted compliant suspension to the Corniches with radial tyres as the "test bed" for future adoption across the range. DRH14434 did have slightly wider tyres than standard [I do not have access to the vehicle any more to check the actual size] but it did have problems with the front inner sidewalls rubbing on the suspension components when on full lock and the rear inner sidewalls rubbing on the inner wheel arch under enthusiastic cornering. (Message edited by david_gore on November 27, 2004) (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| John Dare Unregistered guest Posted From: 144.138.194.168 |
THATS the way Larry!. All QUALIFIED and experienced experts use TWO "on" car balancing machines to get the best possible result. I guess people in the most industrially developed country on the planet WOULD know, wouldnt they? (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Brad Clinch Yet to post message Username: brad_clinch Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2004 |
Hello Bill, Larry, David and John, Thank you for all your comments. I have still been unable to find any 17" rims, nor anyone able to manufacture / supply. Two weeks ago I emailed a company in the USA that I had found on the internet (Rolls Royce of Beverly Hills) which hasn't responded. Yet I guess their prices by some listed would be over the moon. Several other emails and enquiries have also not been replied to… other than the replies and advice received on this forum. Thanks all. Can anyone else advise where one can purchase 17 x 7" rims or there-about? (Reasonably economically that is) Regarding David’s comments about clearance issues, the website <http://www.rollsroycebeverlyhills.com/html2/gift_alloywheels.htm> Makes reference to a rim, “16x7 1/2 chrome wheel set will fit Shadow-Spur range”. From this I would think that a 16” or 17” x 7” should fit without clearance problems, subject of course though to a correct offset. Can anyone shed further light on this? The other alternative of remaining with the whitewall option (in 235/70R15) seems more promising. I had contacted 5 Australian suppliers of Cooper tyres in mid November, three of which I was referred to by the Australian Cooper importers, Exclusive Tyre Distributors and National Tyre Wholesalers. Most of these companies advised Cooper ‘HT’ and ‘Lifeliner’ tyres, neither of which (according to the importers) is available anymore, and I was informed by Mitchell of National Tyre Wholesalers (who was most helpful) that a tyre called the 'Mastercraft Sensys 01', was the new replacement. After contacting 3 of their retail outlets, I haven’t even been able to get a price of the 'Mastercraft Sensys 01' (nor the Cooper ‘HT’ or ‘Lifeliner’ as the retail outlets have recommended!) Instead I’ve had to relay to them that the Cooper HT and Lifeliner patterns have been superseded! Is this a slip in efficiency or just total incompetence?! Regarding the comments of Bill re: WSW Tyres available in the USA (Dunlop D65 T Touring, Kumho Touring A/S 795, Michelin XW4, Yokohama Avid Touring, Yokohama Aegis LS4). Is there a tyre outlet in the US which will supply directly to me in Australia? I live on the East coast of Australia at the lower end of the Gold Coast near the New South Wales / Queensland border, and could pick up in Brisbane, which is only about 1.5 hour drive away. Yes Bill, the climate is somewhat different to the “Frozen Tundra of North America”. Regards, Brad | ||
| John D Unregistered guest Posted From: 144.138.194.25 |
Brad. I would caution against any attempt to import one set of tires directly from a U.S supplier for two reasons; 1/ you will be exposed to a myriad of "minimum" costs/fees etc. which will GROSSLY impact upon the landed price in Australia. 2/ Unless the tires are mnfr.wrapped ("mummified" style) you will encounter Quarantine problems, again, minimum charges, delays and (possibly) fumigation charges.You could even be exposed to the vagaries of Australian trademark legislation. I believe that I recently noted a very impressive color advert. (possibly in "Australan Classic Car" mag.?) which suggested that a local company were now the official agents/distributors for all (or most) of the U.S speciality/custom tires that one often sees advertised in U.S car magazines. Perhaps you might like to explore this further?. NB;In nearly all cases, tires are commercially imported via SEAfreight (and in "Full" containers) which is the cheapest manner by which most retail type goods are imported. (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Brad Clinch New User Username: brad_clinch Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2004 |
Thank you for your advice John. I don’t mind waiting for tyres to be sent sea freight, but your other comments appear very valid. The 'local company' you referred to wouldn't have been Antique Tyres Supplies (in West Heidelberg, Victoria) by chance? I emailed them on 17th November for a price on P235/70R15 white walls and received a price on BF Goodrich 235/70R15 with 2 3/4" WW @ AU$416.00 each, which is nearly as high as the genuine Avon... so I phoned to enquire about the Cooper 235/70R15 and was told they would call me back 'shortly' with a price. I sent a polite email reminder on 19th Nov. as I hadn't heard, and received with an email reply on 24th Nov., "...will get back to you asap". As I still hadn't heard, I emailed again on 8th Dec. They don't seem very keen to sell tyres… but I guess 3 weeks and still haven't been advised a price isn't necessarily unusual! Guess we’re all very busy. Maybe I’ll hear back soon. Kind regards, Brad | ||
| John D Unregistered guest Posted From: 144.138.194.168 |
Thank you Brad. I will review my scattered collection of local car mags. in order to locate the advert. to which I referred. The local retail price of U.S tires inevitably looks high when we check against the U.S domestic prices, hoewever tires have traditionally been an expensive item to ship (SEAfreight, since air is unviable)as they are bulky and heavy, relative to their physical dimensions. The shipping/handling costs, are in my view, responsible for the majority of the retail "mark up", but as in other situations we try to shop around for the best possible price. I am a little suprised that your e' mails etc., are not being answered in a timely manner. Maybe an old fashioned phone call to the boss ("Beau"?) might produce a result? (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Brad Clinch New User Username: brad_clinch Post Number: 4 Registered: 11-2004 |
Thank you John, I have finally got a price from Antique tyres, but they don't seem to like me asking questions about alternative tyres, such as those suggested by Bill on 25th Nov. I will now most likely be purchasing 4 x 235/70/15 WSW Mastercraft Sensys 01 tyres for AUD$165 each from Tweed Rubber in Tweed Heads. If anyone can still come up with an alternative in larger rims, or have some for sale, please advise. If I have already purchased the Mastercrafts, I may yet update next time! Thanks to all who have assisted. Merry Christmas and a safe, happy & prosperous New Year to all. Kind regards, Brad |
