| Author | Message | |||
     Carl Jensen Experienced User Username: carl_jensen Post Number: 50 Registered: 2-2005 |
Hello. The wiper motor brushes were bad on my 1975 Shadow (one was completely gone), so I replaced a couple of them with generic brushes. The motor now seems to work fine, but I have to fix it again since the motor now won't shut off. Too much of a good thing. Please take a look at the attached brush set. This isn't for my particular wiper motor, but I was wondering why the one brush is only 1/2 of a brush. This is the same for my brush set. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks, Carl  | |||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 872 Registered: 5-2012 |
Hi Carl I have no idea why your car has half a brush. Here's a picture of mine, before I cleaned them up.  The two brushes directly opposite each other are energized for normal speed wipe. The other is for high speed wipe. I cannot think why you only have half a brush. Geoff | |||
| Robert Noel Reddington Grand Master Username: bob_uk Post Number: 326 Registered: 5-2015 |
The stepped brush is the slow ( or the fast speed I can't remember) speed brush. It is stepped so it contacts only one segment of the commutator. I used to buy lucas dynamo brushes and cut them down to fit other motors. The wiper motor park system is not turning itself off. The switch is fitted to the motor. One side of the switch fitted to the motor is always live. As the worm wheel rotates the switch closes and opens. If the dashboard switch is turned off the motor carries on until the switch fitted to the motor opens and stops the motor. Added to this is the motor then backs up to park the wipers. OR---- The wiper relay is playing up. The intermittent wipe bit. This relay can misbehave. If the wiper keeps going and the ignition turned off the wiper will stop. If the ignition is turned on and wiper doesn't then that is a typical misbehave of the relay. BUT---- Because you have just taken the motor apart my guess is the switch fitted to the motor has been disturbed. Fortunately the motor is not behind the dash board or similar and is easy to get at. Refer to workshop manual chapter M electrical equipment. Also google lucas wiper motors and see what surfaces. The cable rack wiper system is a Smiths Industries design. Same people make speedos etc. This system with off screen parking feature was also used by Rover and other brit iron. Remove wiper arms. Pull out the rack cable. Mark the tdc of the wiper spindles. Turn the spindles 180 degrees. Turn rack upside down. Grease and refit rack cable. This presents un worn bits of the spindle gears and the unworn side of rack to each other. Before the wiper arms are refitted build little gaffer tape funnels around the spindles and fill with engine oil. | |||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 873 Registered: 5-2012 |
Robert Are you sure the motor you refer to is for the SY1. Here is the schematic for the wiper motor on fast speed:  Geoff | |||
| Robert Noel Reddington Grand Master Username: bob_uk Post Number: 328 Registered: 5-2015 |
Geoff. The diagram has refreshed my memory and the offset brush is the fast one. Over the last 50 years I have worked on many different makes and I get mixed up with other cars. | |||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 874 Registered: 5-2012 |
Actually Bob, it looks like you have solved the question posed by Carl. The stepped brush appears to be off a different type of motor that incorporates the slow speed. Geoff | |||
| Carl Jensen Frequent User Username: carl_jensen Post Number: 51 Registered: 2-2005 |
Thanks everyone for your input. It is going to save me a ton of work. I couldn't adjust the park switch and it turns out that its little plastic protrusion that rubs against the plastic slider had been beheaded. Apparently I had installed the plastic slider in the wrong way. Geeze. Now to find a new parking switch for this Lucas 16W. Parts for this model seem kind of rare but I will see what I can find. The switch itself does not appear to be repairable. Thanks again for your comments. This would have been a nightmare wihout your help. | |||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 1569 Registered: 6-2009 |
Carl, I don't know whether this article will help you or not, but Jeffrey McCarthy wrote an excellent review of "the care and feeding" of the Lucas 16W wiper motor.
Brian | |||
| Robert Noel Reddington Grand Master Username: bob_uk Post Number: 344 Registered: 5-2015 |
A blob of araldite. | |||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 886 Registered: 5-2012 |
Carl If you find a supplier of Lucas wiper parts could you let us know. In the meantime, I would be tempted to try out a solution along the lines Robert mentions. I would use an archimedian screw drill to make a small hole in the stub and insert a pin. Then use araldite to attach a plastic cover. Just a thought. I need some new brushes for my wiper motor and would really like to change the control and limit switches. I've done extensive searches on the web and they appear to be of the category, unobtainium. I've lost fast wipe due to a worn brush and also cannot get the motor to reverse for park off screen. I checked out the control switch and it is a bit flaky. By this I mean when I test the switch with a continuity tester I get an interrupted beep, rather than a continuous one. This may or may not be the problem, but it would be nice to eliminate it as a possible cause. I may try emailing the companies mentioned in Brian's resource file. Geoff | |||
| Bob Reynolds Grand Master Username: bobreynolds Post Number: 306 Registered: 8-2012 |
"I couldn't adjust the park switch and it turns out that its little plastic protrusion that rubs against the plastic slider had been beheaded." 3D printer.  | |||
| Carl Jensen Frequent User Username: carl_jensen Post Number: 52 Registered: 2-2005 |
Geoff, if it helps I bought some generic brushes from the web link below. They are a bit long and need to be cut back and also the brush wire needs to be cut back (must be good for 240v + so it is a bit thick). They seem to work fine although I haven't run the wipers much until I get the parking switch situation fixed: https://www.perfprotech.com/starter-arrowhead-electrical-products-inc-pn-spl9107-arrspl9107-arrspl9107/product/397357 | |||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 889 Registered: 5-2012 |
Carl Many thanks for the link. Geoff | |||
| Hubert Kelly Prolific User Username: h_kelly Post Number: 186 Registered: 3-2012 |
Hi all, the wiper motor has stopped working on my 1968 Shadow. I have received a set of new brushes , however it may be a relay or indeed the on/off switch, the reason being the power for both 1st and second speed appear to be on at same time upon initial testing. Question, does anyone know where the wiper relay might be situated on this early Shadow. Thanks in advance Hubert Kelly | |||
| Hubert Kelly Prolific User Username: h_kelly Post Number: 187 Registered: 3-2012 |
Wiper motor working again,brushes sanded back, entire assembly stripped down and re greased http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/electric/et217.htm. This site proved benificial. | |||
| richard george yeaman Grand Master Username: richyrich Post Number: 458 Registered: 4-2012 |
Hubert that's great that you got it sorted the one thing that you need in Ireland is your wipers to work. | |||
| Hubert Kelly Prolific User Username: h_kelly Post Number: 188 Registered: 3-2012 |
Thanks Richard. | |||
| michael vass Frequent User Username: mikebentleyturbo2 Post Number: 90 Registered: 7-2015 |
Hi all Is the fast speed much faster than slow? Mine dosen't seem much fster if at all, Ive checked and I have got the supply to the 2 diferrent brushes. Cheers Mike posted again! is it only me that loses about 1 post in 4? | |||
| Hubert Kelly Prolific User Username: h_kelly Post Number: 189 Registered: 3-2012 |
Hi Mike, on my 1968 shadow it's near impossible to see the speed change between setting 1 and 2 . Hk | |||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 1074 Registered: 5-2012 |
Hi Mike "Is the fast speed much faster than slow?" Yes, on my 74 SY1. Geoff | |||
| michael vass Frequent User Username: mikebentleyturbo2 Post Number: 91 Registered: 7-2015 |
Thanks Geoff and Hubert , now I'm confused lol  which is it? much faster or a bit? Cheers Mike | |||
| Hubert Kelly Prolific User Username: h_kelly Post Number: 190 Registered: 3-2012 |
Mike on the old car it has only 2 brushes maybe the later model with 3 brushes have another speed? | |||
| Bob Reynolds Grand Master Username: bobreynolds Post Number: 357 Registered: 8-2012 |
The fast speed should be faster (of course) but much depends upon the state of the wiring and the various switches. If you look at the wiring diagram, it is horrendously complicated for a circuit which basically just switches an electric motor on and off! This complication is mostly down to the need to reverse the motor to park the wipers, which almost doubles the number of wires and switch contacts required in the circuit, plus two separate parking systems. A flagrant breach of the KISS principle! After 40-odd years the motor never sees 12 volts. The intermittent wipe on my Shadow is very weak compared to the normal operation. It is my ultimate objective to rip out the entire wiper electrical system (thus halving the weight of the car) and to replace it with a simpler and much more reliable system incorporating a variable intermittent wipe unit and other improvements. The hundreds of wires on the back of the wiper switch could be reduced to three or four. | |||
| richard george yeaman Grand Master Username: richyrich Post Number: 461 Registered: 4-2012 |
My intermittent part dosent work at all but the rest does and I don't want to annoy anything so I will leave it alone. Richard. | |||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 1075 Registered: 5-2012 |
I still cannot get the reverse park function to work on my car. I did check the switches on the motor a while ago, and they are ok. Does anyone know if there is a separate relay for the reverse park function? If you turn your wipers off, do you get the tell-tale click before the wipers reverse park? Geoff | |||
| Hubert Kelly Prolific User Username: h_kelly Post Number: 191 Registered: 3-2012 |
Hi Geoff, the reverse park switch is under the metal plate, which is held on by 6 tiny bolts. If you observe the mechanism that leaves the motor,entering the bulk head just above same is a nut and bolt like structure. This is the reverse adjust screw. With the plate off the motor, you can see a small switch with wire attached to same. As the rotation of the motor completes a cycle it should tip against this switch and when the wiper switch is in the off position this tiny switch turns motor off. That's a basic description of same. Take note that the mechanism which is attached to the moving arm which strikes the switch is correctly supported to the end of metal "cord" if this has broken free from its mourning it will not strike the switch. Hk | |||
| Robert Noel Reddington Grand Master Username: bob_uk Post Number: 854 Registered: 5-2015 |
My fast speed on SY 1974 is definitely faster and about the same as my Jeeps fast bit. On fast the wipers over shoot. Due to wear on rack and wheel boxes. Remove wipers. Mark the spindles as to where they are assembled. Removes cable rack turn though 180 degrees. Refit rack so that both wheel boxes are 180 degrees from original. Thus the unworn bits are now being used. Chassis grease for rack and engine oil via masking tape funnels fitted to the spindles on the scuttle. I agree about the complexity of the wipers. Off screen parking is not a feature of many cars with a similar windshield. Such as a Austin 1100. The wipers when parked at the bottom of the screen didn't obstruct vision. Luxury car makers tend to try to out equip the lesser cars. Two speed wipers were in use when the Shadow was introduced so RR went one " better" and fitted off screen parking. Rover used off screen parking and that system was not entirely reliable. The Rover P6 didn't have off screen but it had a clever intermittent wiper using a vacuum bleed screw. Allow more air to enter the little bellows and the switch attached to the bellow works sooner. Excellent kiss design. My car sometimes the wipers don't turn off. But turn to intermitant and then off stops them and they park off screen. So I haven't bothered to repair. | |||
| Bob Reynolds Grand Master Username: bobreynolds Post Number: 359 Registered: 8-2012 |
'Luxury car makers tend to try to out equip the lesser cars. Two speed wipers were in use when the Shadow was introduced so RR went one better and fitted off screen parking'. Quite so. The off-screen parking is just a gimmick with no practical use whatsoever. I can't even see it being a useful marketing feature either. If the wiper arms are adjusted properly they will not slap against the rubber seal at the bottom of the screen. The extra complications (both mechanical and electrical) needed for the twin parking system to work, simply do not justify this gimmicky feature. I wrote a post on exactly how this system works: http://au.rrforums.net/forum/messages/17001/15158.html I remain very impressed by the person who devised the mechanics of this system, but it simply isn't nescessary, and is over-complication for the sake of it. It is clear that the system no longer works in a lot of cars, and the owners don't even realise it. If the wiper motor has ever been opened up, there is a 75% chance that it has been put back incorrectly and the twin parking system made inoperative. There are no instructions, that I know of, on how to assemble this mechanism correctly. If it isn't working, it will reduce the angle of sweep of the wipers by quite a significant amount; the wiper arms will need to be maladjusted so that they park properly, and then they will only clear half the screen and leave a large unswept area in front of the driver! From discussions, it seems that many owners think this is normal. The two separate parking circuits and the need to reverse the wiper motor introduces a whole new level of complexity and unreliabilty into the system, and makes it needlessly complicated to set up and adjust. | |||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 1837 Registered: 6-2009 |
Bob Reynolds wrote: The off-screen parking is just a gimmick with no practical use whatsoever. . . I remain very impressed by the person who devised the mechanics of this system, but it simply isn't nescessary, and is over-complication for the sake of it. Amen. Boutique engineering that violates the KISS principle for no appreciable functional gain. The two separate parking circuits and the need to reverse the wiper motor introduces a whole new level of complexity and unreliabilty into the system, and makes it needlessly complicated to set up and adjust. Indeed. This tendency to create Rube-Goldbergian features where they serve no practical purpose, while resisting other, simple, improvements that were already tried-and-true on millions of other cars because "we don't do that" (I really can't figure out what else would have driven it - it's a mystery) has always made me scratch my head. It's also been my observation that there are lots of things that are overengineered that could have been made of tissue paper and still function while other obvious things are underengineered. I love my cars, or I wouldn't have purchased or kept them, but Crewe's engineering department was populated with eccentrics. Some were genius eccentrics while others were simply, well, idiosyncratic for its own sake. Brian |
Lucas 16W Wiper Motor Repair & Maintenance by Jeffrey McCarthy