| Author | Message | ||
     Paul White Yet to post message Username: pjcwhite Post Number: 1 Registered: 2-2015 |
Hi Guys, I am in the process of refurbishing the hydraulic reservoir and associated components on my 1979 SII (SRH39187). The reservoir itself is currently being cleaned and zinc-plated so I cannot check this myself at the moment, but how many filters should I have ? I am pretty sure I only removed and cleaned two. These would be part UR15542. The filters I cleaned were in good condition but most of the official doco points to there being three. Having only two would have no doubt have contributed to all the crud I syringed out. cheers Paul     | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 1369 Registered: 6-2009 |
Paul, There is only one mesh filter per system in the two-series cars. Believe me, the stuff that "grows" (sometimes it looks like algae, but can't be) in these reservoirs when they are neglected for long periods of time is almost not to be believed. This is what I found in LRK37110, which had traveled less than 100 miles in five years and was "put to bed" just after having had a full hydraulic system overhaul at an RR dealership.  I hate the original design of these filters because they will collapse if crud builds up in the reservoir, and very often tear and let that circulate through the system. Yes, ideally this should never happen, but clearly it does. I had an alternative machined out of 1" hex bar stock and then applied the fine stainless mesh myself. It will never collapse if it gets clogged with crud.    Brian | ||
| Paul White New User Username: pjcwhite Post Number: 2 Registered: 2-2015 |
Thanks for clearing up the confusion Brian. I am envious of your baffles btw :-) . Mine look to be a DIY effort made of aluminium. I have had them remade by my brother-in-law in steel now and these too are off being zinc plated. I also have the necessary ingredients to make YAK363 when it comes to bleeding and refilling the system. cheers Paul | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 753 Registered: 5-2012 |
Hi Paul My car is a 74 SY1, so it may differ from yours. The third filter you have seen mentioned in documentation may be the gauze mesh that fits immediately beneath the reservoir cover. It is pictured below, at the top of the photo. I do not know whether this mesh was discarded in the later models, but it would certainly account for your reading of three filters.  Geoff | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 1370 Registered: 6-2009 |
Geoff, If you take a look at Section M1 of the spare parts catalog you'll see that it appears that there are three filters in the reservoir, though I've never seen a car with this setup in real life. It's interesting to see the iterations of the warning plate in the spare parts catalog, as some show Girling Amber, others Girling Green, etc. The version I have doesn't even show a reservoir with the correct 2-filter layout:  Since neither SRH33576 nor LRK37110 has two threaded posts onto which a filter could be screwed in the system 2 side of the reservoir, and I know LRK37110 has not been modified, it appears that the parts catalog was never updated. It also appears it should have been updated long before the two series cars made their appearance. That gauze mesh with cork composite gasket at the edge is still there in the SY2 cars. This is one of those things I've never seen the point of. Even if something were to fall into the reservoir when you were filling it the mesh on the filters on the pump feed ports had ought to be more than sufficient to keep it out. Who doesn't wipe thoroughly around the caps before removing them anyway? Brian | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 1371 Registered: 6-2009 |
Paul, I forgot to mention that the baffles in both of my cars are made of aluminum. You can tell this in the photo by the two patches of corrosion that you can see at the lower right of the "algal side" of the reservoir. I believe this was by intent, as it avoided the need to plate steel and aluminum doesn't create a huge mess of corrosion (rust) even when it does corrode in it's natural state. Brian | ||
| Randy Roberson Grand Master Username: wascator Post Number: 430 Registered: 5-2009 |
The warning plate on SRH 9391 (1970) says Girling Amber is the correct fluid. Funny but the thought that popped into my noggin while reading Brian's post and seeing the photo: "amazing, assuming the dealership actually did clean the system out thoroughly, or even took the lid off" A cousin caught the local Toyota dealer actually changing her oil about every third trip in. I wonder how much this kind of thing goes on...just sayin... On my Car, when I opened up the reservoir, it was almost completely clean inside and the screens were in good shape, though the Car had seen little if any use in several years. I haven opened up the Wraith II yet, though... | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 757 Registered: 5-2012 |
Brian You are right - there are 3 filters on the SY1 cars:  Geoff | ||
| Robert Noel Reddington Frequent User Username: bob_uk Post Number: 88 Registered: 5-2015 |
Paul White. Zinc plating. How much is the zinc plate. And please can you post photos of the finished tank. I have researched zinc plate and it appears to be ideal in this application. My 17768 has aluminium baffles and the large lid sized filter. Plus 1 filter for master 1 filter for no1 pump 1 for no2 pump. So 3 small and 1 very big one. My filters are nice and round and not torn. The filters are about 1 inch tall so thats a lot of crude to fully block them. I should think the damage occurs when the tank is carelessly clean out and rags get caught on them. | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 1374 Registered: 6-2009 |
Randy, I guess it depends on the dealership. LRK37110 was serviced exclusively by Transco, now Bentley High Point, and their reputation is such that I doubt corner cutting. I wish I could say that is true of all service facilities, but alas. Not long after I got SRH33576 and before the 2007 RROC-US fall tour I took the car to a specialist shop because my System 1 brake light was coming on. I had over $4K of work done on the car, and as I was driving it home, less than 3 miles from the shop, there was the System 1 light on again. Of course, it went back. I found out later, and by accidental admission, that when they did the brake work they never bothered to even open up the reservoir to inspect it. They put fresh RR363 in on top of stuff that already had major detritus that had settled in the bottom of the reservoir. Needless to say, the car has never been back there again. Who would ever perform a major brake service on these cars where a great deal of RR363 was added as part of it without checking the condition of the reservoir?!! Notice also in the following pictures that they never bothered to examine the condition of the filters, either. Both had partially collapsed and one had a huge hole in it. That certainly wasn't the result of the sludge seen, since nothing was clinging to the filter screens at all during this service. What follows are pictures of what I found in 2009 when I was doing the usual 2-year fluid change. Mind you, I'm sure this was just more of the internal surfaces of the aged hoses being carried back to the reservoir, but it gives some idea of how quickly things can build up if parts of the system are "not fresh." I replaced all of the hoses myself very shortly after this set of photos was taken. If I had it to do all over again I would never even consider using conventional brake hoses. Most of the issues with the hoses in our cars is secondary to long, slow breakdown of the surface of the carrier tube due to reaction with RR363. Since PTFE core hoses are not all that much more expensive, the job of replacing all of the hoses is long and tedious, and PTFE is chemically inert I'd definitely have a set of those made up. With an inert carrier surface and the additional structural strength and protection (stainless mesh and an additional plastic coat on top of that) common on these hoses they will have a virtually perpetual service life.   Geoff, Since it only makes sense to have those filters on the intake end of things it appears that system 2 had two feed pipes. I've never looked at the "plumbing" of an SY1 versus SY2 reservoir in detail. As you can see, there are only two filters, one per system, on SY2 cars. Brian | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 1375 Registered: 6-2009 |
Don't know how I clicked to upload the dirty reservoir picture twice, but can't seem to undo that in edit mode. I tried getting rid of the "image already uploaded" code and putting in a new image, but it won't let me. Correct picture:  | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 1376 Registered: 6-2009 |
Bob UK wrote, The filters are about 1 inch tall so that's a lot of crud to fully block them. If memory serves, Paul Yorke has posted several pics of reservoir contents that would not be believed except for the pictures. It seems quite possible for enough crud to build up over the years if someone entirely skips ever cleaning out the reservoir. I've had enough correspondence from people looking for the shop I used to have my custom ones made, and saying that theirs were collapsed under a layer of sludge, that that seems to be "the usual cause." Brian | ||
| Paul White New User Username: pjcwhite Post Number: 3 Registered: 2-2015 |
Lots of good info guys... Bob, in answer to your zinc plating question, the cost is AU$100 (48 quid). This was for cleaning and zinc plating around 12 items including the main reservoir body, lid, caps, baffles, tubes for the reed switch floats and a few nuts and bolts that lurk in there too. I will certainly post pictures of the results. All this fun was initially caused by one of the accumulator valves springing a leak and then one thing led to another... I'm having the valves refurbished by a mechanic mate who knows them well. I removed and cleaned the high pressure switches (one was ok but the other was wonky due to a defective plunger). I'm also replacing the various hoses in the system and the brake hoses while I'm at it. A reed switch on the reservoir had a broken terminal and one of the sight glasses was cracked and leaking too. That lot will keep me busy.... :-) cheers Paul | ||
| gordon le feuvre Frequent User Username: triumph Post Number: 76 Registered: 7-2012 |
There is 3 filters on a car with 3 systems i.e. master cylinder as well as 2 x high pressure. The master cylinder was deleted around chassis no.22000. A big spring was put in it's place to replicate the feel of a "normal" brake pedal as there is actually no caliper feedback on the high pressure systems. Any one who has ever driven a Citroen ID19/DS21 from the '50's with just button on floor can verify. | ||
| Robert Noel Reddington Frequent User Username: bob_uk Post Number: 92 Registered: 5-2015 |
48 quid is not expensive. I only need the lid done. I tried diy and it was not good. At that price I would not even bother with diy. | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 760 Registered: 5-2012 |
Why not go for cadmium plating as per original. I have seen companies specializing in zinc and cadmium plating here in the US. Is it not available in other countries. Geoff | ||
| Robert Noel Reddington Frequent User Username: bob_uk Post Number: 97 Registered: 5-2015 |
I think cadmium plate is expensive due to health reasons. Does anybody know about cad plate. | ||
| Robert Noel Reddington Frequent User Username: bob_uk Post Number: 100 Registered: 5-2015 |
I have emailed Bowmill Engineering in Poole Dorset. Ref. Cad plate. Bowmill do plating inc cadmium. | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 1641 Registered: 4-2003 |
Bob, you are correct about the occupational health and safety as well as the environmental problems associated with cadmium plating. | ||
| Paul White New User Username: pjcwhite Post Number: 4 Registered: 2-2015 |
Hi All, here are the bits all cleaned up and zinc plated. The guy at the plating shop commented on the tenacity of whatever it was painted / plated with previously. Cheers Paul       | ||
| Robert Noel Reddington Prolific User Username: bob_uk Post Number: 107 Registered: 5-2015 |
The finished job looks good. That should last another 40 years. Well worth £48. I notice the two caps were also plated did you take the seal and clip off them. Bowmill aren't interested in doing any plating unless its a big order. Drew a blank with Hammerite they haven't tested it and won't. So zinc it is. I can get this done at a small plating company. They do car and boat stuff. | ||
| Robert Noel Reddington Prolific User Username: bob_uk Post Number: 108 Registered: 5-2015 |
Also the photo of the tank bottom shows the plumbing of the pipes off well. 2 pump feeds. 2 acv returns 2 system returns. 2 holes for reed switches. | ||
| Paul White New User Username: pjcwhite Post Number: 5 Registered: 2-2015 |
Hi Bob, I did remove the seals from the inside of the caps but did not need to remove the clips. All the seals, including the ones either side of the big screen filter looked and felt more like rubber than (I presume) the original cork. I replaced the seals on the caps with new cork ones. They look as though there is no way they'll fit, but they do when you push it in with a finger nail. I have new cork seals for the big screen filter but can't do those till I put the warning label back on the lid. Cheers Paul | ||
| Paul Yorke Grand Master Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 1378 Registered: 6-2006 |
Collapsed and clogged. The mesh once blocked will fold in on itself and restrict flow even further causing it to collapse further. If your mesh is intact, you can add a loosely coiled spring inside it. Find one which is about the diameter of the filter thread and feed it inside the filter. You will then have a spring loaded mesh which will stay upright. Keeping the reservoir and fluid clean and changed is a must for longevity. The plating looks like a good job.  No idea what is on the inside of the reservoirs, but don't use and very strong solvents on it. WD40 usually does the trick. | ||
| Kelly Opfar Experienced User Username: kelly_opfar Post Number: 35 Registered: 7-2004 |
This is a pic of my reservoir that I had electroless nickel plated a couple of years ago. It was sandblasted first to remove the plating and corrosion then glass bead blasted for a satiny finish.  | ||
| Paul White New User Username: pjcwhite Post Number: 7 Registered: 2-2015 |
Wow. That is nice. | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 763 Registered: 5-2012 |
Kelly Have you a picture of your reservoir in place, in the engine bay. It looks great. I was wondering how it enhances the engine bay itself. You could be starting a new trend here, particularly as cadmium plating appears to be so environmentally unfriendly. Geoff | ||
| Robert Noel Reddington Prolific User Username: bob_uk Post Number: 118 Registered: 5-2015 |
The nickel plated tank looks really good. I did think of chrome plating. | ||
| Kelly Opfar Experienced User Username: kelly_opfar Post Number: 36 Registered: 7-2004 |
This tank is still sitting on a shelf awaiting the completion of bodywork. SRE24700 is nearly a bare shell with the engine out and the subframes off. |
