| Author | Message | ||
     Randy Roberson Grand Master Username: wascator Post Number: 350 Registered: 5-2009 |
I am down until I find some more of the Magic Elixer: anyone heard of Castrol brewing and putting any out on the Street? | ||
| Chris Miller Grand Master Username: cjm51213 Post Number: 327 Registered: 5-2013 |
Hi Randy, I assume you've heard of homebrew RR363, which is 90% DOT3 or DOT4, and 10% Castor Oil? Chris. | ||
| Randy Roberson Grand Master Username: wascator Post Number: 351 Registered: 5-2009 |
Yes; in fact, I have the ingredients on hand; I wanted to make one more pass before I weaken and violate the Prime Directive: "Thou shalt not adulterate The System with ought but RR 363". | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 604 Registered: 5-2012 |
Hi Randy I'm down to my last 1/2 liter with a car that will need a brake fluid change this year. I will be joining you on the dark side. Geoff | ||
| Bob UK Unregistered guest Posted From: 94.197.122.88 |
I wish Castrol would just tell us how to make RR363 from Dot. What about Emailing Castrol and asking them if it's just the castor oil that is different. (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 1509 Registered: 4-2003 |
Bob, If you go through the various threads on RR363 on this forum, there are a series of posts by Richard Treacy and one of these gives the specification of the castor oil added to the DOT base fluid. This is a modified castor oil presumably for miscibility reasons. However, there are also reports of mixtures made with commercial castor oil not separately out when left for long periods of time and "home brew" mixtures being used for extensive periods without any apparent problems. It is my opinion, the castor oil was specifically added for hydraulic pump lubrication to minimise wear with a bonus benefit of preventing noise from the rear self-levelling rams. | ||
| Bob UK Unregistered guest Posted From: 94.197.122.71 |
I know that you are right because I have done extensive research on dot. The Citroen DS guys say the same about castor oil and some are using Castrol R veggie oil and dot. I just wish Castrol would just say that use normal dot with % of castor oil and be done with it. (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 1511 Registered: 4-2003 |
"I just wish Castrol would just say that use normal dot with % of castor oil and be done with it." And lose most of that lovely profit margin - I suspect a "bean counter" in the back office regularly looks at the gross profit margin and says to himself "we cannot stop selling this product". I suspect I know what the decision would be if someone did a serious nett profit evaluation which included all costs up to the point of sale as warehousing, transport and inventory holding costs would quickly make a meal of the profitability of this product. | ||
| Bob UK Unregistered guest Posted From: 94.197.122.79 |
It also means that Castrol would be admitting that all this time, they have been selling dot with jollop for an inflated price. Its like Hienz tomato sauce, it's obvious what's in it but hienz say it's secret. It's difficult to assess the actual profit from RR363 or if Castrol actually make it themselves. I suspect that Castrol has a small operation that deals with only the small scale stuff. I should imagine that there are other little used stuff that Castrol make, such as special grease for expanding watch bands. A race guy once told me that because Castrol R tends to gum stuff up inside the engine. He used to soak the piston in dot to free the rings. I haven't a clue how this is connected to 363. Except that dot cleans carbs. (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Randy Roberson Grand Master Username: wascator Post Number: 354 Registered: 5-2009 |
Well, I "did it" today: I blended up some Home Brew RR363 and poured some of same into Her Sacred Reservoir. Oh! the shame... And if that's not enough abuse, I bought the DOT 3 and castor oil USP at WalMart. Egad... next I'll be on Jerry Springer... Well, no doubt I started some sort of multinational all-around disaster mechanism which will result in destruction of All We Hold Dear, etc etc. Actually, She did not seem to notice. With the level of the Wicked Fluid at the MAX mark, we set off down Louisiana highway 151 for about 20 miles of test touring with absolutely no drama. I will likely not buy any more Castrol You-Know-What. I'm feeling dangerous. | ||
| Bob UK Unregistered guest Posted From: 94.197.122.82 |
Castrol shares price is down. Now we know why. Supermarket oil is good quality. (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| David Lacey Experienced User Username: dlacey Post Number: 32 Registered: 11-2010 |
Welcome to the HomeBrew club, I'm sure you'll experience no ill effects. As you know the best analysis is here: http://citroen.cappyfabrics.com/tony.html I'd be interested if anyone has tried the DOT3/PAG oil mix proposed there...its sure to have better low temp performance than the unmodified castor oil. It seems like a good idea, these PAG oils are fully miscible with DOT3, are used as compressor lubricants in AC systems and Dow Chemical makes PAG brake fluids.....seems a better option than castor....has anyone tried it? | ||
| David Lacey Experienced User Username: dlacey Post Number: 33 Registered: 11-2010 |
Or maybe we should all try Shell's DOT4 ESL, since our issue is one of lubrication: "In designing Shell Brake Fluid DOT 4 ESL, special attention was given to lubricity performance. Its excellent lubricity and low noise characteristics have been demonstrated in extensive application tests carried out by major hydraulic component suppliers. Under accelerated ageing conditions DOT4 ESL passed industry rig tests with the highest possible score." http://www.shell.com/content/dam/shell/static/chemicals/downloads/products-services/shell-brake-clutchfluidsbrochure.pdf} | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 1520 Registered: 4-2003 |
David, I have been mislead many times by extravagant claims about product suitability and performance only to later find the claims were a figment of the salesperson's imagination and not backed up by the supplier's technical experts. The Shell claims almost certainly have been prepared by a non-technical person IMHO. These relate to laboratory simulation tests and not actual long-term use in the field which is the only determinant for changing fluids that would influence me. The Shadow hydraulic system pumps are critical hard and expensive-to-source replacements; if the Shell product is OK for conventional hydraulic systems but not OK for the Shadow system then someone is going to face an expensive future pump replacement. Better someone else with deep pockets........ The Dot/castor oil mix has been used for a considerable time with no reported problems. Some users have undertaken cold climate storage tests and have not reported any separation of the DOT and caster oil. As for the PAG alternative, this is the first time I have heard of it. Again, I would wait for long-term experience before contemplating its use in preference to castor oil. | ||
| Jan Forrest Grand Master Username: got_one Post Number: 757 Registered: 1-2008 |
Due to a long period of storage, the YAK363 has been in my Shadow for well over 3 years. Even so I didn't feel any difference in the suspension or braking when I brought her back from my niece's a few days ago. When this snow clears up I'll drain the system into a clear container and see just how it may or may not have separated. | ||
| Jim Walters Experienced User Username: jim_walters Post Number: 28 Registered: 1-2014 |
I've been using the home brew Dot3/castor oil mix in my own car for four years now with no noticeable ill effects. I use a castor oil that is formulated for mixing with scale model RC aircraft fuel, not pharmaceutical grade. I deduced that if it was made to mix with fuel it would probably be fine mixed with Dot3. I mixed it at 9.25% according to the Citroen website posted above, which supposedly gives the mix the same viscosity as RR363. In my test jar that has been sealed tight for four years there is no visible separation of fluids. I drive my car year round and have put about 20K miles on it in the last four years. I understand the warnings of low temperature use but have had no noticeable ill effects even when driven in slightly below freezing temperatures. From what I understand of chemistry, hydraulics, and lubrication I am quite confident that this mix is just fine. I approach this subject like all others, researching the information available and then making an informed decision based on facts, logic, and basic common sense. There is quite a lot of technical information on castor oil used in brake fluid out there for those that are interested in learning more about the subject. The use of castor oil in brake fluid was not pioneered by Citroen and it was not "invented" by Rolls-Royce. It actually was a major component of the first brake fluids in the 1920's. The use of PAG oils is interesting and bears further investigation. This link http://www.mossmotors.com/SiteGraphics/Pages/Brake_Fluid/brake_fluid_long.html explains in detail the formulation of brake fluids and lays out the DOT testing requirements for brake fluids to meet the DOT standards. Needless to say I haven't put the home brew through those tests but I am confident from the research I've done and the experience of both myself and many others that it is a viable alternative. SRE22493 NAC-05370 www.bristolmotors.com |
