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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
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Username: soviet

Post Number: 61
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Sunday, 04 January, 2015 - 07:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Am I seeing things? The bolts that hold the hydraulic lifter blocks. They appear to be 7/16 AF heads but with a little pip on them so the sockets won't fit on properly. Am I correct in that one needs a special RR/B socket for them? Because the car has had obviously irresponsible owners the oil sludge build up from the oil obviously not being changed regularly prevents the hydraulic lifters from being removed without a lot of carry on so I want to remove the blocks. Horror of horrors both rear cylinders have pistons which look like they have had water in them. Even more ugly is the fact that I found many cylinder head nuts actually loose ! Obviously some quite questionable mechanics have worked on the engine. One cylinder head looks reasonably new. Even more disturbing is seeing that some clown has cleaned up the block on one side of the engine with an air driven gasket removing tool and has actually ground the engine number off so I am wondering if the block has been ruined by using the discs for cast iron instead of the discs for aluminium then left the cylinder head nuts loose causing coolant to leak into the rear pistons. The engine is not seized but lack of coolant changes are indicated by a build up of the muck. Interestingly the cylinder bores have no ridges at all so I am thinking the car has only done just over 100,000 miles.
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Paul Yorke
Grand Master
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 1356
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Sunday, 04 January, 2015 - 07:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

NO! you are NOT seeing things!!

Is it the lock tabs you are talking about??

Keep cleaning one and all will become clear :-)

Or take a look in the parts book.

They are also on the bottom on the hydraulic pump bosses on the cam cover if you want a close look at one.
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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Frequent User
Username: soviet

Post Number: 62
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Sunday, 04 January, 2015 - 10:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thanks Paul, my eyesight is being a fool lately but it didn't look like a lock tab, it looked like a special bolt that needed a weird socket. But I'll check it tomorrow.Sludge is thick. Just just can't understand that somebody could own one of these super rare cars and not change the oil regularly. But I suppose total craziness in no bar to RR/B ownership.
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Paul Yorke
Grand Master
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 1357
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Sunday, 04 January, 2015 - 10:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Many owners think that if the car doesn't move then the fluids don't deteriorate.

In fact sitting around is not good at all.

Low mileage cars are more often worse than high mileage cars for sludgy engines and much worse than average mileage cars.

Oil and filter annually. Others 3 to 4 years usually.
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Bob UK
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 94.197.122.86
Posted on Monday, 05 January, 2015 - 07:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I used to use my shadow most days to go to work 15 miles return and about a 50 to 100 at week ends. Since retiring I done a 850 miles to Scotland and back.

It starts instantly and the only thing that went wrong was B2 plug cap fell off. A new one was 1.60 from Lucas service, terribly expensive. Fortunately that happened about a month before Scotland.

Like all things mechanical lack of use slowly degrades it.

I would wire brush the tappet block screw. Then all will be revealed.

Check the foot of the tappet if the bottom is burred then it will damage the block if forced out. So carefully grind a chamfer around the foot. Burred tappets are scrap any way.

Also a bit of heat helps don't exceed 150c. Diesel fuel or kerosene is good for getting the worst of the sludge off.

The liners is difficult because ideally they should be removed so that the seals can be changed and a good job of the cooling system sludge removal made.

If you have a local engineering shop which has a big parts cleaner that uses hot solution to clean then that is good option. My man charges only a tenner to put an engine on hot wash.
Also he has a chemical bath that removes carbon paint gaskets and seals. This costs fifty quid, because of the cost of the chemicals.

Be very wary of media blasting engine parts that have oil ways.
Seen a few engines eat themselves due to media left in oil ways.

Shot blasting Oil in frame Truimph motor bike frames has wreaked a few engines.

(Message approved by david_gore)
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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Frequent User
Username: soviet

Post Number: 65
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Wednesday, 07 January, 2015 - 05:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Bob I have to travel 124 kilometres just to get milk and the mechanical garages all of whom I know on a personal basis in that town have no hot tub big enough but I have some good degreasers here so I don't mind spending weeks getting the donk clean. I will be cleaning every orifice on the engine before reassembly.Defineately the liners are coming out even though the engine turns over freely. What really puzzles me though is cross hatching is clearly visible down each bore and I would have thought that would have worn off by 100,000 miles. Question do Shadow II and Corniche have 140 mph speedos too?
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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 593
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Thursday, 08 January, 2015 - 02:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

My SY1 has 220. Alas, it's KPH. Looks impressive to anyone peering in from the side window though, especially with all the myth that surrounds Rolls Royce cars.

220 KPH = 140(ish) MPH. So for my car the answer to your question is yes.

One thing that has always baffled me is why California cars have 80 MPH speedos. I guess it's their attempt to try and keep your speed down. That's California for you.

Geoff.
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Bill Coburn
Moderator
Username: bill_coburn

Post Number: 1557
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Thursday, 08 January, 2015 - 08:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Gosh Geoff, I had forgotten the 80 mph speedos and remember seeing one but most probably in the States when I lived there. The Company was so keen to sell cars for US dollars that the slightest legal requirement was met with alacrity!

In the US the 'lawmakers' seemed to be empowered to impose whatever suited their current whim. You would remember the double switching of the power windows to stop kiddies garrotting themselves and the rheostatic control over the rear stop lights lest the brilliance of the colonial system should dazzle following drivers at night. There was a system of bum switches such that if a seat was loaded by a passenger, the car would not start until the related seat belt was fastened. If you had a parcel on a seat you had to remember to lock the belt sans passenger before the engine could be started. The nanny state syndrome was not exclusive to the US, the OZ people in the early seventies got quite excited over the idea of painting the grilles of both the RR and the B to avoid the hazard of reflections of either sun or headlights dazzling other drivers. That was resisted with threatened violence I was told yet today we have at least one Shadow with a painted grill to match the body and actually it looks quite smart.

One gadget that did not reach our shores was the self locking seatbelt that apparently flew around the occupant before the car started or moved off. I have never seen one, other than a mention in the workshop manual but not even in the many movies made in the States did we see the desperado waiting for his seatbelt to click in before charging off!!

In another category, the older readers will recall the bodies on the short boot Bentleys and Dawns. The boot lid actually swung down to a point where the minuscule (by today's standards) boot could be readily accessed but with a suitable upward slope to accommodate suitcase stacks. The latter were secured by provided straps which tightly held the items against hinged stops on the lid. For the corpulent owner to get something at the very back of the boot, the projecting lid was not comfortable. Further, the latter given the angle at which it rested prevented its use for a serving surface for the canapés and champagne buckets. Apparently the Board made several endeavours to change the boot design but it was defeated by one member who advised that his son's school trunk fitted on the lid perfectly when the lad was carted off for term attendance!
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Bob UK
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Posted From: 94.197.122.84
Posted on Thursday, 08 January, 2015 - 08:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Shame about the hot wash.

Its down to degreasers and brushes.

Use Kero to get the worse off then degreasers.

I find that the cake on layer on the outside is best scraped off without wetting it, it comes off in chunks.

Barrier cream on hands.

Water pressure washers for oil ways.

Thread string through oil ways tie small knot in the middle and pull through then pull back.

Which is why the knot is in the middle and not the end.

Take the sludge traps on the crank out. And don't forget to put them back.

Alloy wheel cleaner works on carbon. Especially in piston ring grooves.

Brake cleaning spray works on oily stuff.

Once the bits aren't covered in greasy muck you can completely clean up the work area, and breathe a sigh of relief that the rest of the work is cleaner and one doesn't need a shower every 2 hours.

Humidity, if humidity is high protect from rust. A smear of clean grease stops it. But only lasts say 6 months before rust tries to creep underneath.

I am very pedantic on the conditions that engines are assembled in. Dirt is an enemy.

Every single shell brg damage I have seen was caused by dirt and I seen a few.

(Message approved by david_gore)
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 3151
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Thursday, 08 January, 2015 - 09:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Bill, were they not 55MPH speedometers ? I swim in 80cm Speedos.
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 3153
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Thursday, 08 January, 2015 - 09:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

ps: I envy the swimming pool at your home at this time of the year when it is 30C-40C in the shade. Here at Broulee on the South Coast we only have to worry about the 4m sharks which closed the beach today.
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Jan Forrest
Grand Master
Username: got_one

Post Number: 740
Registered: 1-2008
Posted on Thursday, 08 January, 2015 - 11:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

"Bill, were they not 55MPH speedometers ? I swim in 80cm Speedos."

Waistline or ... ?

On the subject of speed limits.

The USA has a blanket limit of 65mph on freeways and toll roads, but with slower stretches. 'In town' it's usually 55 on the wider, faster roads down to 20mph near to schools. A recent edition of the BBC's 'Top Gear' went to 'the best road in the USA' only to find that every foot of the way had a speed limit of 35mph or lower! In some areas the speed limit can change 3 or 4 times in the space of a mile and you are guaranteed that there will be a speed trap at every such change. The local authorities see this as an ideal way of raising more revenue and police them almost to the point of obsession
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 3154
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Friday, 09 January, 2015 - 12:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Every reason why that lazy and puny 140 MPH speedometer was replaced by the 170MPH (270km/h) version in my Turbo R when it was needed.
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 3155
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Friday, 09 January, 2015 - 12:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

That was in my Turbo R cruising leisurely on the Autobahn between Zürich and München a few years ago of course.
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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 594
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Friday, 09 January, 2015 - 02:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Jan

It is true the de-facto speed limit in the US is 65 MPH, however most states allow higher speeds on their interstates. 70 and 75 mph limits are common. The highest I have come across is 80 mph on the I10 through western Texas. The only city I have come across where they try to "catch you out" is Cleveland Ohio. I am sure there are many more and it is irritating. One of the big differences here in the US as opposed to the UK is the police do enforce speed limits. The last time I was in the UK, about 5 years ago, it was a case of slot into the outside lane and 95 mph all the way. It always amuses me. Has this unofficial speed limit been changed since then?

Geoff
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Jan Forrest
Grand Master
Username: got_one

Post Number: 741
Registered: 1-2008
Posted on Friday, 09 January, 2015 - 02:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

In practice you're good up 80/85 on motorways, but over that and you're likely to see blue and red flashing lights in your rear view mirror. Every now and then the police like to have a 'crack down' on speeders just to keep their ticket numbers up to the (allegedly non-existent) targets and increase fines revenue.
Recently the government suggested increasing the motorway limit to 80 'for the good of the economy'. Translation: Faster speeds = lower mpg = more fuel duty revenue = faster wear = faster vehicle replacement = more VAT and car sales duty. Funny how it all boils down to money!
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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
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Username: soviet

Post Number: 73
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Friday, 09 January, 2015 - 09:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

So in 1980 I am leisurely cruising in a 55mph area (interstate highway) somewhere near Washington at 110mph in a Chevy Malibu, the little one with the 350 not the 454 in it, with the windows down it being summer when I notice I am being tracked, so being law abiding etc I take my foot off the gas and cruise down to 80mph then 55mph taking care not to give the game away with the brake lights. And yes the traffic policeman was not a figment of my imagination, indeed he had a quaint little blue light on the top of his dash board of his unmarked Buick so I realise I am croaked. Licence please, so I had him the RAC international drivers licence that cost me $20 in Perth Australia. You must be a VIP. I nod. Why were you speeding? Well this car officer cost me $500, it will go just over 125 mph standard, the road is beautiful I had a clear view of things and you have a 55mph speed limit put there in some nonsensical endeavour to save all the oil for our Arab friends. All you Australians should get fuzz busters fitted to your cars because I get around 10 of you a week.(Naturally it being still Cold War times I didn't need to show him my Soviet passport - that would have been undiplomatic) Now you are going to have to drive behind me back to the police station to get sentenced by the sergeant. No problem, $80 fine for being 80mph in 55mph zone. So I was pleased and decided I could speed up a little maybe one or two more times before catching the 9pm Aeroflot flight to Moscow, but in Russia we have a different method. A bottle of vodka (vodka is primarily distributed in half litre bottles in 2000 costing a buck each) Together with Ruble equivalent of $5. As the policeman comes up to your window with the shortened pistol grip machine gun dangling around his neck you just hand him the vodka and the loot, nice day officer, yes it is, you see no need for a discussion, production of licence rego etc and in my opinion a much more efficient way for traffic control
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 3156
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Friday, 09 January, 2015 - 09:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Apart from parts of the Northern Territory, the maximum speed limit on motorways here is 110 (that's 69 MPH for those in old countries). If you were to drive 3 km/h (about 2 MPH) above the limit you will suffer a heavy fine. I drive around 1,000km weekly on the motorway and pass through at least 8 random speed traps let alone multiple fixed speed traps. The speed limit here is absolute. That’s a shame when even the cheapest and nastiest motor car can do 200 easily.
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 3157
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Friday, 09 January, 2015 - 12:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

OK I admit it. I have suffered just one road offence ever and it was an honest mistake. I was done near my home in Switzerland for driving 30 over the limit in my Turbo R a few years back. They changed the speed limit on the highway (not Autobahn) near Zurzach and I missed the 60km/h sign where it was 100 the week before. 29 over is a simple fine of only about $800 but 30 meant a larger means-tested fine plus costs. $5000 and no licence for a month, so I went to Australia for a month as I have an Australian licence too.
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Bob UK
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 94.197.122.85
Posted on Friday, 09 January, 2015 - 10:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

UK is easy. If you get nicked for speeding then you were well over the limit.

In a 30, 35 is ok but 36 is a nick.

At 70, at 85 you are chancing it.

The law is 10% allowance for Speedo error plus 3 mph for not watching the Speedo, plus 2mph to be certain. Police don't nick marginally speeders only idiots who drive at 45 mph in a 30 And then complain that it's dangerous to look at the Speedo and why the police aren't catching burglars. Because they have to waste time stopping idiots driving too fast in stupid places, like out side a school.

A lot of the problem is drivers seem to think that 30 is the speed to drive at. I know that there's lots of traffic and the average speed around Town is 20 mph. So I don't bother trying to hover on 30mph.

Dorset lanes are lethal for speeders many splatter themselves into trees. Off camber curves, farm equipment horses and dear now wild boar.

A bit of fun is possible but when I see cars doing 80 plus past Kingston Lacy near wimbourne I think organ donor.

There is a very wide 2 mile dead straight section of road which us locals suspect is also a secret landing strip for military planes should the need arise. The verges are flat and wide and the junction at the end is very roomy. I been down there quiet fast. It's not far from Clouds Hill where Lawrence of Arabia got killed going to fast on a brough superior motorbike.

(Message approved by david_gore)
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 3158
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Friday, 09 January, 2015 - 09:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Bob,

Australia here (wave a flag and win the Cricket - sometimes I wonder about this Forum where spelling is often foreign like American and whatnot) and the laws are similar to those in far-flung old outposts like the UK but tolerances may be different. More relevant, in Sydney’s East-West and M5 Tunnels there is no tolerance whatsoever. 1km/h over the limit will deliver you a fine every time. Even by European law a speedometer must not under-read at all and may over-read by up to 10% so there is no excuse for speeding. There seems to be an unwritten rule that elsewhere here 2% overspeed is allowed. It may go part way to explaining why Australian road accidents per kilometre are one sixth of that of the UK and one twentieth that of the USA. It may be boring, but like Qantas this is the safest country for travel.
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Jan Forrest
Grand Master
Username: got_one

Post Number: 743
Registered: 1-2008
Posted on Friday, 09 January, 2015 - 10:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

It's true that many countries will widen a stretch of road here and there for use as emergency landing strips, but that's only for smaller military aircraft. On the whole commercial passenger aircraft need the full width of a 3 lane (in each direction) motorway for sufficient wing clearance. Even then few stretches of motorway are long enough or have enough distance between overhead bridges for such aircraft to stop safely and/or in one piece.

As for urban or suburban speed limits in the UK, there has been an increasing tendency of late to reduce them to 20mph in many busy areas along with outside schools when the warning lights are flashing. Re. the latter: There are some such lights which can be forgotten on a Friday and left flashing all weekend! Could you get nicked or not? You try it first!
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 3159
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Friday, 09 January, 2015 - 10:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Yes, the UK is a bit backward in this respect. Here in Canberra, and Australia-wide, we have a 40km/h zone by all schools with automatic warning signs and often speed cameras to enforce the limits. I lived in Berlin and there are 6km/h Schrittempo zones there yet no limit on many Autobahns nearby. Sydney has shared zones too – following Germany’s lead at 6km/h. No red flags though. In Zürich almost all sidesteets are 30km/h and 120 on the Autobahn. So, lifting the upper speed limits and reducing the restricted areas is one constructive way to go. Our 110km/h Motorway limit here is a bit too low I think, but the safety statistics are so good that a change is unlikely.
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Bob UK
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Posted on Saturday, 10 January, 2015 - 06:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I don't exceed speed limits because the people who set them (The Traffic Commissioners) don't put low limits in place without good reason and lots checking.
In Dorset there are many short sections of 30mph which protect awkward junctions and ignoring them will eventually result in a collision. Once through the junction it's back to 60mph.

Unfortunately some blast through at 60 and they are on borrowed time. One particular junction has big Quarry trucks turning on to main road.

Recently a biker hit a coach turning on to a narrow lane he's lucky to be alive and walking. Witnesses reckon he was over 60 mph going into the bend just before. He came round the bend and dropped the bike and slid down the road into the coach.

The junction at the end of my road has lots of broken car lights in the gutter. We clear them up and next week there's more.
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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
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Username: soviet

Post Number: 77
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Sunday, 11 January, 2015 - 12:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Nice one Richard, a $5000 traffic fine, remind me to catch a bus if I ever visit the neutral of all countries. I've done decades of craziness on roads internationally, but have never scored a $5,000 fine. I give you a teachers pet silver elephant stamp for that one.
As you pull off the highway and turn right heading east along 57 kilometres of one of the most treacherous roads in outback Queensland, there is a sign which says "Drive to Prevailing Conditions" heading to my front gate. There is no speed limit sign apart from the one on the highway that says "110" kilometres of course but sometimes I misread it. The problem with prevailing conditions out here is the conditions change on a daily basis. I was coming back the other day in the 1990 Falcon pano (panel van)which has a big bull bar on the front (its second one) and most panels are dented it having dispatched two cows at high speed and countless kangaroos. Many people say that this pano is straight out of a Mad Max movie even though its white not black. Perhaps. So here I am coming back the other way, there being 4 ways to my place and each of them as deadly as each other. I am taking it easy at 80k when instantly along a straight the car is totally out of control as I spot out of the corner of my eye a twenty foot drop into the culvert, guard rail? perish the thought the nearest one is about 200k away. So I pull the car out of an almost 180 degree sideways slide only to put it into another almost 180 sideways slide, then the mongrel goes into the third slide which I manage to correct and get the thing pointed in the right direction but I am quickly losing speed, the rear wheels are going down fast and I gun the engine flat out and just make it to solid ground whilst simultaneously laughing hysterically. Now was there a flat foot with a badge just up ahead to scribble out a revenue raising ticket? Actually, no, perhaps because the police left the area in 1967 and I have only heard of once but not seen a cop here in 5 years. On this same road and all roads that lead here there is the occasional road train. That's semi trailer with prime mover and not one but three trailers. You learn, if you survive to kept an eye on the horizon looking for a dust storm if its daylight and for very bright spotlights if its nighttime -yes these monsters are best avoided. These suckers don't stop for anybody and they can't pull off the road. So you have to get off the road. So my idea of helping the community is to pick on the tourists. You tell the tourist, because they are usually unsuspecting naïve types that attempt to tow their very flash caravans behind them. Some make it some don't so I always warn them that just because they have made it into town there is a big chance they won't make it to the bitumen in one piece. I don't know how many cars and 4wds I have seen on their roofs over the years I have lived in these parts but its substantial and the beauty of it is that when you do mangle yourself the first thing that comes to mind is that marvellous miracle of modern times the mobile/cell phone which you call for the ambulance which will take 2 hours to get to you if they make it. Quaint, but the problem is those things don't work out here because there is no signal. Then you wait for the passer by - maybe only a 3 day wait if you are lucky. Now this is road which is haunting. Everybody waves at each other just like they all do on the nullabor plains highway. And it is impossible to stop your car and have another car go past you without them stopping and asking if you are alright. People seem to care here, try that in Sydney traffic speed cameras and all.
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Geoff Wootton
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Username: dounraey

Post Number: 597
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Monday, 12 January, 2015 - 02:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Vladimir

Sounds like an interesting place to live. Have you any pics of your village.

Geoff
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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Frequent User
Username: soviet

Post Number: 78
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Saturday, 17 January, 2015 - 02:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Geoff you can just google mount coolon queensland and see lots of photos of my town, well ghost town anyway population 10. does anybody know what type of drama is involved in removing all the cylinder head studs from the engine block. I want to send the block and the cylinder heads to be ground for flatness at a machine shop. my concern is that the studs may come out with the threads being steel into aluminium and that could mean a whole new world of pain and loathing. apologies for all the lower case letters but the keyboard on my laptop has decided to go feral today
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Paul Yorke
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Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 1363
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Saturday, 17 January, 2015 - 09:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I would say that the chances of the block being untrue is far less than the chance of damage being caused getting the studs out and in again.
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Paul Yorke
Grand Master
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 1364
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Saturday, 17 January, 2015 - 09:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

If you are fitting the existing liners you will need to skim them to.
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Kelly Opfar
Experienced User
Username: kelly_opfar

Post Number: 28
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Sunday, 18 January, 2015 - 04:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The liners are supposed to sit .002" to .003" proud of the deck surface. If you surface the deck, the tops of the liners will need to be skimmed accordingly. This can be a painstaking process. I had the liners in and out several times after that to get the correct fit with a depth micrometer.
Keep in mind that if you surface the block and heads, your pushrods may be too long. There is no rocker arm adjustment on the Rolls block as the rockers are mounted on a rail. Then you'll have to have pushrods custom made.
The top of my block had fairly serious electrolysis damage in places that needed to be filled and then skimmed.
Extracting the studs was a nightmare that I wish on no one. Five of the studs broke off at the top and this was after soaking in Kroil for months. Since the top threaded portion of the studs were broken off, I was able to make an 8 inch long hole saw with an inside diameter just big enough to clear the reduced portion of the studs. I had to do this because there was so much baked in crud surrounding the studs that the Kroil had no chance of reaching the bottom threads.
This drilling process of course had to be done upside down - .030 at a time - to let the swarf fall out.
Once the crud was clear, that made room to insert a custom made drill guide that let me drill out the rest of the studs with a special 10" long drill bit. Then a custom tap was ordered to clean out the threads in the bottom. Some of these studs are buried 8 inches under the deck.
In all, I drilled through 30 inches of studs. This took months.
If you want a laugh, get a quote for the 4 different studs from your friendly Bentley dealer. ARP quoted me $1200USD for new custom made studs. I am a machinist so I made my own.
If I had to do it over, I would have extracted the liners and left the studs in place. Then I would have filled the block damage with metal epoxy and sufaced it by hand with a long precision sanding block.

Remind me to tell you the long version of this story someday...
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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Frequent User
Username: soviet

Post Number: 79
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Sunday, 18 January, 2015 - 06:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thanks chaps for your information. Kelly, you have convinced me, but please when you have the time tell me the long version of your story. One thing that worries me about this block is that some clown in the USA has tried to deck the block with a sander and has managed to grind off the engine number on the left hand side of the block. That's left hand side looking from the front seat to the lady of ecstasy . So what I intend to do is put a straight edge along the block and check for straightness with feeler gauges. And as the great Lenin once said "What is to be done ?" Indeedy, neither him or the great God Marx every mentioned that a little KGB chap, Putin would end up with 60 billion in bank and still keep political office. Obviously, the more I look at this Camargue saga and this marvel of a aluminium block now looking like some poisonous hedgehog with the cylinder heads removed, I am fast coming to the conclusion that not only was Crewe right in fitting the Turbo 400 tranny, they should have gone one step further and fitted a 500ci Cadillac engine fully cast iron and just done a shifty rebadging deal with GM to make up nice aluminium rocker covers with Rolls Royce written on them and fitted some type of high pressure pump to fuel the braking system. For $8,000 USD, Cad Company of New Mexico can supply a 600 hp donk then comes the problem of mating it to the existing transmission and solving the problem of pressuring the braking system. Egad, why didn't Crewe forsee the now evident possibility of future owners not maintaining the inhibitor and just gone the Cadillac way. After all the Gerrys ended up with RR and B. I feel I am facing more problems than Afganistan with this entire debacle. And further problems are afoot. I am fast getting a Bentley Arnage T habit. There is one going for a shade under 14K quid in Uk with a blown motor or at least a blown top end. But the Arnage does 170 mph. It appears to be the real deal but is its body made like a paper bag, just like a late model Australian build Commodore. Even though I am never going to sell the car in my life time given that only 184 were ever produced in Right Hand Drive, the question is should one tip buckets of money into this evil aluminium monstrosity to end up with a shade over 200 hp. Yes and Richards camera shot of a Bentley flogging down the Autobahn at 148 mph at under 4000 rpm is not helping the diabolic quagmire I find myself in. Yes indeed, what is to be done. Presently awaiting Bob's two cents here and any other suggestions will be gratefully, received.
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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 610
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Sunday, 18 January, 2015 - 09:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Kelly

"I had the liners in and out several times "

Did you heat the block each time to extract the liners or were you able to extract them with the block at room temperature?

Geoff
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Kelly Opfar
Experienced User
Username: kelly_opfar

Post Number: 29
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Sunday, 18 January, 2015 - 09:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I have access to a large powder coating oven and heated the block to 250F each time. For re-insertion, the liners were put in a freezer for several hours. The liners drop right in after that. I didn't even try to budge the liners without heating the block first.
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Bob UK
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 94.197.122.75
Posted on Sunday, 18 January, 2015 - 08:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

If the crank turns smooth on good bearings then the block is true. This is because when things warp they don't get fatter or thiner. There for if the mains are in line so is the rest.

If the heads are flat then they are flat and skimming will not make them any better.

However a skim of 5 thou won't hurt.

BUT. If the heads have been skimmed in the past then another 5 thou may cause problems.

Measure the thickness of the head at both ends and centre the dims should be equal, if the difference is say 15 thou this would indicate that the head was warped by 15 thou and has been skimmed.

The finish for the head and block shouldn't be polished a reasonable machined surface is ideal, this gives better grip on the gasket.

If the gasket being fitted is shiney, this is a special lacquer that glues the gasket when heated and squeezed. This gasket is fitted dry. The lacquer is very good.

A light hand wire brush cleans the mating surfaces. Not power brushes on aluminum.

Now is time to decide how this engine is to be tuned.

If nitrous oxide is to be used then a std compression ratio should be fine.

But if conventional methods are used then the compression ratio needs to be say 10.1.

I dislike skimming to raise CR because it so easy to break into a water way, and the metal can't be put back.

Best way is higher pistons. If the CR is wrong then fit different pistons.

Note if turbo charging the CR should be quite low, if to high when the boost arrives the dynamic CR could be much to high.

(Message approved by david_gore)
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Bob UK
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 94.197.122.80
Posted on Sunday, 18 January, 2015 - 10:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Kelly,
The method you used is the best way. As you say the liners just simply drop in.

Recently I put some bearings and collar on a half shaft and we put the shafts in a domestic chest freezer and warmed the brgs and collars to 150c and the bearings drop on with a light tap, I left the collar heating while putting the brg on and it dropped on nice with a scaffolding tube to assist. I dropped the tube on to the collar and the collar went fully home.

It's so much easier with heat. Without it only way is a press which I haven't got.

(Message approved by david_gore)
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Jonas TRACHSEL
Frequent User
Username: jonas_trachsel

Post Number: 57
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Monday, 19 January, 2015 - 02:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Vladimir
If the rebuild of your engine gets too involved why not shop around for a good one from a scrapped Shadow. Such engines should be available at a fraction of the cost to rebuild yours. And much faster at that, I could imagine it takes easily half a year to rebuild your engine....
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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 612
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Monday, 19 January, 2015 - 07:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Jonas

That's a really difficult and interesting proposition. I once totalled up the cost of rebuilding one of these engines at US $7k. I am sure many might think this is an underestimate however I based my costs on parts available on FS. Compare this to the cost of a "spares" car. I have seen cars on ebay around the $3k mark but the condition of each has been appalling. Mostly non-runners. I think you would be lucky to find one with a half decent engine for less than 5K. Same applies to buying one from FS. How do you know the condition. You could well be in the same position after just a couple of years if the donor engine is not up to scratch. Rebuilding the engine at least guarantees it will be top notch.

Geoff
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Bill Coburn
Moderator
Username: bill_coburn

Post Number: 1559
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Monday, 19 January, 2015 - 07:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Heating the block can be a challenge - there is a lot of metal there. I have used a couple of household fan heaters under the block; the latter perched on a couple of saw horses and covered the lot with a fire blanket to contain the heat. The heaters need to have a reset button. Cheap heaters don't have resets if they overheat. A few hours later the liner extractor having been fitted, is filled with ice, pause for chilling and then tighten the puller. They practically fall out! Fitting the liners is the reverse, heat the block, store the liners in your deep freeze and they will drop in with a push of your finger!
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Bob UK
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 94.197.122.79
Posted on Monday, 19 January, 2015 - 10:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I have often pondered over how to heat a lump of aluminum that big.

I thought about spit roasting over a pipe with holes connected to the gas. Then build a wall round to keep the heat in.

A method I use for cleaning paint off brackets and even motorcyclearly frames is to set them on fire. I found that small motor cycle panels come out very clean a quick rub down and And it's ready for paint.

Biggest panel I have done like this was the flat panel between the front bumper and the body on a FX4 Austin Taxi Cab. The trick is to heat it evenly, the years of paint fell off. I used a bonfire. I threw it on top with a bit of wire attached and gave it 15mins to cook and pulled it out a hose down and it's perfect.

The fire also does both side and surface rust pops and crackles off.

I was going to try a wing off an XJ6 but the owner was cagey so he used nitro moors.

I like the ice down the bores.
A cool trick.

I dislike pressing those collars on half shafts I worry that the pressing has stretched the collar. Every once in while you hear of half shafts coming out while the car is being driven

A another trick is to put acid on the shaft and then fit the collar on top of the acid. The idea is to rust them together. Never done this I use loctite instead.

(Message approved by david_gore)

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