| Author | Message | |||
     Michael Moran Experienced User Username: mjcmoran Post Number: 34 Registered: 8-2005 |
Hello I believe that the original RR colour 9500434 Shell Grey Metallic M151-2582 is no longer available. As you know I have owned this 1974 Silver Shadow SRH 18723 for 35 years and the paint now has a few 'war wounds' and a touch of rust in the usual places. My car is regularly used and not only for shows and pic-nics hence the small marks and a couple of minor 'incidents' over time and distance have marked that fine coachwork. I have one unopened litre tin of the original Shell Grey Metallic paint but most paint-shops in the UK and Poland I have approached seem loathe to use it. Is it now too old/difficult to use? Why might this be and what sort of paint was the original anyway? The car has a faint matt finish which is terribly attractive but possibly unable to be reproduced in 2014. Also the art of having coach-lines painted correctly seems beyond most paint-shops. Of course I could take out an overdraft and drive to P & A Wood in Essex from Warsaw of course.... What does one do in this dilemma as I wish to keep the car but do not want a variegated 'patched' effect which has happened in the past as the colours of old metallics seem to be so difficult to match accurately with modern 2 pack lacquer finishes. I would like to preserve as much originality as possible but this is not easy unless you hardly use the car. Any advice (technical or otherwise) most welcome. I thought I might use the winter months to deal with this problem rather than drive the car in the snow on the salt-encrusted roads of Poland. | |||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 1102 Registered: 6-2009 |
Michael, Attached is a reference file on ICI paint codes cross referenced to their current (as of 2010) Nexa Autocolor paint codes that was written by Tom Wright, a member of the RROC-US. I would try getting in touch with your nearest PPG/Nexa sales outlet. In the strictest sense, what you say is definitely true in that I think single stage lacquer was used back in 1974 with a base that was very high in VOCs. Someone else can answer the "what paint type was it" question definitively. That stuff, whatever it was, is gone. Also, there were some colors that employed "animal based" colorants that are no longer available. Brian
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| Michael Moran Experienced User Username: mjcmoran Post Number: 35 Registered: 8-2005 |
Thanks Brian. The only problem is that PPG/Nexa have no European outlets. They are based only in the US it seems at least from my researches so far. Import taxes and so on to the EU for products from the US are around 60%. Probably a non-starter but the attachment is very helpful all the same - its a start. I may get some help from the R-REC forum concerning availability of the replacement colour in the EU as Shell Grey was quite popular not just for Shadows but many other earlier models and Bentleys too. Michael | |||
| Michael Moran Experienced User Username: mjcmoran Post Number: 36 Registered: 8-2005 |
Brian I have now found a Polish outlet for Nexa Autocolour having Googled 'Nexa Europe' With your cross-reference hopefully that should do the trick. Thanks again Michael | |||
| Bob uk Unregistered guest Posted From: 94.197.122.76 |
There is no such thing as an unavailable colour. Any paint shop will be able to match it. (Message approved by david_gore) | |||
| jean-pierre hilbert New User Username: jphilbert Post Number: 7 Registered: 9-2013 |
Bob is 100% right! You should not worry at all! I had the white on my Corniche scanned and remixed. It came out as a perfect match. Any good paintshop has those scanners available, they are handheld, battery powered (which means that it is not necessary to remove a fuel tank lid to make a scan). My paintshop even mixed me an aerosol, 25EUR, scanning included. | |||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 1482 Registered: 4-2003 |
Michael, Bob UK is correct - a good spray painter can match existing colours whether original or faded. There is a small cost involved in preparing the sample pots for testing on the car but these can then be used for the base coats later before the finish coats are applied. The problem is finding one...... Fortunately, my local automotive trade paint stockist is also a car restorer and was able to perfectly match the Coffee Bean Brown on DRH4434 when no local paint supplier had a 1K formulation listed however a 2K formulation was available from Spies Hecker which is a European company and should have distributors in Poland [you cannot use one manufacturer's formulation for another brand due to variations in their paint and tint formulations]. http://www.spieshecker.com/corporate/en_GB.html Your biggest problem is deciding which type of paint to use; I prefer 1K paint [traditional solvent based acrylic paint] with a clear coat finish as it is easier to apply and easy to rectify later damage if necessary. Professional painter use 2K paint which is a base/hardener system - this paint gives off toxic fumes when applied requiring the use of ventilated spray booths and breathing air. Clear coat finishing is not required however it is difficult to "spot repair" if later touch-ups are necessary and respraying the entire panel is usually required. Water-based automotive paints are becoming more common for environmental and OHS reasons however I have no experience with these. | |||
| Michael Moran Experienced User Username: mjcmoran Post Number: 37 Registered: 8-2005 |
Clearly my English is not up to scratch and I was unclear. I meant that the original chemical paint formulation in that colour Shell Grey is no longer available from ICI. ICI is now Nexa Autocolour and although the colour is reproducible the formulation is not. I wondered if anyone knew why that formulation was discontinued (health reasons perhaps)and actually what the formulation of the original paint may have been. I did not think that the colour could not be easily duplicated in another chemical formulation by another company today. I am aware that scanners can 'read' and analyse colours accurately and that they can now be easily duplicated. However I also think that metallic paints are not easy and do not match well on modern or older cars. Maybe I am wrong in that and back in the past again. It was the finish that interested me. Look, I have had my car for 35 years and I know that when I bought it the finish was a lovely and rather unusual soft 'satin' type finish - highly polished but not aggressively glossy - a comparatively understated shine. The car was not paint finished in that really bright clear shine car producers prefer today. Perhaps I am imagining things. I was simply wondering if the original finish could in any way be duplicated in 'modern times' because I liked it. Clearly not. I also have a concours 1949 MG TC which I had painted in correct for period black cellulose - looks superb and is nicely patinated now. Although pro painters will tell you cellulose is only for the amateur painter and inferior I think it looks more 'authentic', more like real paint on earlier classics and also less Pebble Beach in effect which I dislike intensely. Also it is of course a non metallic which is not difficult if any small repair is needed. Thank you for the friendly and very helpful advice David. I will bear that in mind when I discuss this with the paint shop. Incidentally Poland is building an enviable reputation in high quality classic car restoration at a fraction of the cost in the UK. Friends of mine have built good fringe businesses on selling on restored cars (Astons, Lagondas, Healeys, E-Types and XKs mainly) to German collectors who are rather uncompromising and wealthy. Michael | |||
| Bob uk Unregistered guest Posted From: 94.197.122.74 |
Those aerosols are surprisingly good. My car is carriage black. I get when needed gloss black aerosols from paint factors for £4 each. which will do the radiator and header tank. A refinement in the process is to use Matt black first. For small bits spray paint into lid and use artist sable brush. Or because my car is black, nail varnish. Also touch up sticks from other car makers are useful. When the paint is matched ask the paint shop for the number of the nearest colour available. On sills where they curve under I use stone chip and then colour coat on top. Always remember the paint system that is applied to the car. So if in doubt take off a door step plate the test under the plate. The stone chip I use is grey 3M and dries slightly soft it can be feathered and wet smoothed so that it cannot be seen underneath the colour coat. Especially if the colour is shell grey. When touching up, where the touch up is often defines the level of success. A blimp in the middle of the bonnet will show out like a boil on the end of a nose, whereas a blimp on the lower sill will not show. If you have no experience of paint aerosols practice on a fridge. I have seen whole wings painted with a rattle can. A trick that is not on the can is to stand the can in warm water. Wear face mask. Do not attempt to paint anything in poor lighting conditions natural day light best. Artificial lighting must be diffused. Ambient temp 20 to 25 c and low humidity. High humidity causes bloom which is though the paint not on top so it cannot be polished out. However it can be sprayed over again. Loads on the web about small area repair technics SMART. (Message approved by david_gore) | |||
| Michael Moran Experienced User Username: mjcmoran Post Number: 38 Registered: 8-2005 |
Thanks Bob. Very helpful advice from someone who is clearly very 'hands on' unlike many of us! Mike | |||
| Bill Coburn Moderator Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 1543 Registered: 4-2003 |
Michael/ For my penny's worth, while tradition dictated that ageing men with good backs and steady hands painted coachlines, the Factory certainly listed tapes for doing perfect lines in its spares catalogue. Having just bashed in the side on my Spur and had it beautifully repaired, I did not even think of the coachlines until your remark. Having checked, they are perfect. The repairs were done by a bright young Greek panel beater and when I think to ask I will be very surprised if he tells me that he engaged aged men with steady hands to re-line the area of repair. | |||
| Michael Moran Experienced User Username: mjcmoran Post Number: 39 Registered: 8-2005 |
Hello there Bill Apropos coachlines I found these two fascinating links: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ37QC2xFkQ and http://www.drivingthenation.com/lou-ann-hammond/the-hands-of-goodwood-the-pin-stripe-or-coachline-painted-on-a-rolls-royce/ Michael | |||
| Jan Forrest Grand Master Username: got_one Post Number: 699 Registered: 1-2008 |
Alternatively you can apply plastic pinstriping either side of where you want the line, fill the gap with paint and remove the plastic before the paint dries. The effect should be barely distinguishable from the real thing. | |||
| Michael Moran Experienced User Username: mjcmoran Post Number: 40 Registered: 8-2005 |
Well chaps I found this which certainly should fit the bill... Now all I have to do is measure the width. Useful to put on file. http://www.finessepinstriping.com/striper_order.asp Michael | |||
| Bob uk Unregistered guest Posted From: 94.197.122.75 |
Or I decided that a pin strip above and below the chrome waist rail was a bit over the top so I removed them. I then also decided that the fog lamps were clutter and removed them. Then because of the pinstripe on the beauty rings that the stainless wheel trims look good with out beauty rings. I have refitted the rings without pinstripes and they look good. I removed the over riders and fitted the bumpers back and it looked sleek. But the where the joints are didn't look to good so I attempted to make little stainless steel straps to cover the joint. But it went wrong and I thew them in the scrap and refitted the overriders. I got the idea from a custom shaved car. To do the job properly means welding and rechroming which on £2000 worth of chrome bumpers and won't risk it. Also I can't return to stock. The earlier shadows had grills under the twin head lamps which I don't like. Also the two has headlamp wipers which are naff. IMO too much clutter detracts the line. Also the badge on the boot of the two is not good. I am looking at door mirrors and trying to design a tv camera mounting so I don't have a door clutter mirror. So far I can't think of a way without an obvious bulge in the door top. (Message approved by david_gore) | |||
| Bob Reynolds Prolific User Username: bobreynolds Post Number: 186 Registered: 8-2012 |
Not sure about the need for a tv camera, but I wouldn't mind fitting reverse parking sensors, if I could think of somewhere to hide them. | |||
| Jan Forrest Grand Master Username: got_one Post Number: 702 Registered: 1-2008 |
I can't speak for all reversing sensors, but the ones I fitted to my SS1 advised against placing them directly to a metal surface. Therefore I inserted them into the open end of a couple of rubber walking stick ferrules. The exact description is knocking around on the forum somewhere ... They're not exactly hidden, but neither are they obvious. And - most importantly - they work! | |||
| Bob uk Unregistered guest Posted From: 94.197.122.76 |
Tv camera is easier than parking sensors. Sensors have to be at the very rear which will require holes in the rear bumper face. The bumpers are not cheap. The sensors are 1 inch in dia on cars I have seen. where as the tv camera could be hidden by say looking out of a hole in a rear light lens which are far cheaper than a bumper reverse light probably ideal. Tv cameras are usually 17mm dia. My problem is I don't want outside mirrors because of clutter. I have been looking at the gap between the wing and the front bumper end. But it's so low all the muck will get on the lens. I moulded a bubble from plasticene and stuck it one the door top instead of the mirror and decided although a good place camera wise not good style wise. So to visualize what the sensor may look like make some from whatever And stick them on. Then you can stare at it walk around and chew it over. Which is how cars are designed in the first place. (Message approved by david_gore) |
ICI to Nexa Autocolor Paint Number Cross Reference